Jack River

Did it end? Are we as people not still engaging in war on a daily basis. Verbally via antagonism/violence both verbally/physically. To me Vietnam is still very much taking place, only in different areas of the world.

They are one and the same dude. The individual is the society. No difference. Self understanding (understanding the intellect and its relationship with self) will effect the whole. It’s all one consciousness dude. It’s important to see the fact of this. Communication is a necessity, but for that to happen there has to be relationship. And for that to happen there has to be self understanding. So we should understand ourselves(thought) together. It’s important to see that unless there is self understanding then we will always look through conditioned eyes. We will never actually meet a problem as it is, but we will meet it as we feel it should be.

All problems talked about today arise from thought/self. Let’s discuss thought/self as it is actually/inwardly dudes. All these social problems are conditioned, as is thought.

I feel ya..by holding dialogs, implementing it in daily life through vocation is all good too dude. Exploring he nature of thought/self would have to be discussed. Otherwise people are not aware of the confirmation bias and other tendencies of thought. Nothing wrong with that, I’m just saying comming together to understand the problem seems to comes second place, as I have witnessed on many different occasions here on the forum.

If there is any sense of psychological measure then yes, that is antagonism/violence.

Fosho. Ego/self pattern indeed.

Easy brah...Not to contribute to that stream of conditioned reaction ourselves. What’s done is done man. We are the result of the past, of thought, which is old(tradition/culture). The “individual” forms/is “the society” and the society conditions and holds hostage the individual. The self depends on outward authority to bring about change. This is also how the self looks to solve its “individual” psychological problems. To look to thought(abstraction/idea/theory’s/practices/techniques/systems) to end that state of psychological insecurity. But that causes the psychological problems in the first place. It’s all derived from the false divison that thought projects inward and then outwardly. This is actually to resist, avoid, escape the problem that is born of the self/thought. The problem arises from thought and we try to use thought to solve that problem. All the outward problems( racism, nationalism, religious dogma, bias/prejudice) is an expression of the inner fragmentation that arises through an incoherent understanding and therefore awareness of thought-self. This leads to this outward fragmentation. We are the problem. Which is what I meant @Emerald When I say you I mean ME.

Yep. We are the problem. See what is.

Yeah yeah yeah. You are the problem. Understand it, observe it, learn about it. You guys think you can impose order on society. That’s not the way it works. Classic fragmentation.

Self understanding dudes. Understanding the nature of thought/self. Stop playing with yourselves

@Emerald Arguing will never change anything. It’s an expression of resistance/attachment(fear-ego).

Be the change dude. Step out of the stream/the spiral.

Your not seeing my point. the collective and the individual are the same. Start with you. That simple. We are the problem, let’s understand it heh.

It all starts with me dude. Are we going to continue clinging to “our” answers, ideas, opinions, or are we going to actually understand the problem together? This is an expression of thoughts tendency to seek security first and foremost. My ways is better than yours lol its exactly why things are the way they are.

We are the problem. There is no society. It all starts with me. Has nothing to do with “nonduality” to much distortion guys. It’s all your fault

All of this racism/individualism/collectivist talk is an invention-manifestation of thought (ego) dudes. One opinion opposing another and an unwillingness to learn and understand the problem together with a common goal of understanding the problem. This thread is an example of what is actually happening in the world now. No relationship (isolation/alienation) dudes and dudetts Resistance/attachment and therefore identification with our own accumulated knowledge/experience. One big self feeding loop of ?

Everything thought about and said here is a reality.

Fosho ? but don’t concern yourself with the story, but the nature of “the story teller”

Freedom doesn’t choose dudes?

Thought tends to seek security first and foremost. It will gladly seek refuge in “nonduality”. Thought will move positively or negatively(accept or deny) as that is the basis of its structure/nature, as in reactionary response of will/desire in one direction or another. The self will cling and project what it has learned via knowledge/experience. The self is it's content(thought). The self will choose what fragment to cling too and what to disassociate from.

Knowledge/experience which is the old (of memory) determines what is recognized as a “new” experience that happens in the present moment. “The self” actually being a fragment of that knowledge/experience(the past-memory) separates itself as being independent of that field of thought/experience. If a present moment experience is actually of the past-the old is there actually an experiencer that experiences?

“My mind, THE I , the user, the chooser”, all one unit of movement “in time” (thought-the tool).

It’s real enough to be seen, or not seen through.

Is it healthy(holy) to cultivate/maintain an image about ourselves? If that image is not cultivated/maintained through action/reaction is that image anymore a part of experience? Going into this really has made relationship with my family/friends/environment healthy??

Both these traditional means are positive/negative movement is self. Both means project a fixed goal/end. What happens when there is no means?, therefore nothing fixed?