Jack River

And thought/self would love nothing more than to skip that.

Thought can get pretty gnarly dudes. It will totally miss certain movements it makes. A kind of incoherent continuity. If I seek “enlightenment” I have already presupposed I know what it is. It’s going into investigation with assumptions/fixed notions...it implies effort/will to attain the image/goal that I have already identified with. This is how the self seems to subtly sustains its own pattern. It’s pattern that is woven tight in the structure of ego/thought.

Before we assume there is this integration of the ego maybe we can ask who’s integrating? Is this another divided action of ego? It seems that the ego(divided movement/action) would love nothing more than to integrate its own movement. I wonder

The meditation of no effort. In effort there is the inherent identification to a specific meditation practice and also identification with a certain goal in mind. Effort is the essence of self/ego dudes

Most excellent of you Cetus.

The ego loves to sustain its own continuity by looking for ‘ways’-means(psychological becoming) to die. The ego also seems to pleasure itself out of assuming death will come with time. Either will feed the ego/self.

It can be seen that the ego both will dissidentify or identify. Really both the same movement of resistance/attachment(identification). The ego seems to prevent integration. So maybe a question would be if integration means to make whole, how can a mechanism that inherently breaks things up become whole?

Nice?

?Awsome that we can understand each other.

With holistic insight there doesnt seem to be any movement in either direction. There doesn’t seem to be a movement that influences action...The insight is the action itself. Would you say so as well @robdl?

Yeah. Both the same.

Any action influenced by knowledge/experience/memory is a divided action of the self. A two step process of action. Holisitc insight/action is not split/divided.

Most excellently said. Either or is still positive/negative action of a self.

Yep still a divided action. Still an action influenced by a chooser. Those actions are still influenced by conclusions/time.

Fosho dude, it very well can be. That’s why it’s important to self understand/observe. Like we said above self loves to accumulate and cling to ideas. The Breeding ground of time.

The believer is the believed. Awareness sees it as one unit in movement of time.

Yep. We are talking about selfs..all selfs are the same. The self is its accumulated knowledge/experience(time).. fosho. This comes about actually by observing yourself without resistance/attachment(identification). Self learning/self reflection. This insight is not the result of thought.

Fosho. The self will accumulate everything here on the forum and use it as a means to free itself which will actually feed itself. Fuel the divison. Thats why freedom/holistic insight is so necessary.

I wouldn’t, couldn’t, and shouldn’t say anything about “enlightenment”. It’s to small, superficial, limiting, to even talk about.

First off, great questions dude. that’s the point dude. “selfs” do not seem to understand when an idea or notion is being pursued. The self does not even see that its idea/notion of “enlightenment” and “the self” are all part of the same movement of time. This makes for a problematic situation. The self already seperates itself from its accumulated ideas/notions. As long as that is the case it is implicit that the self will pursue the idea/notion. This will happen unconsciously. It’s the way self moves/operates. fosho. That is still seeking psychological security. That is the same movement of time. One of the many subtleties of the self/thought. That is still a reactionary movement away from what-is(attachment/resistance/identification) and action influenced by that. yep? You got it dude. Again a reaction. We are then going into the exploration with a fixed notion either way. I shouldn’t because of this, or I should because of that. If there is no holistic insight into thought/self then we will act by motives/knowledge/desire. To come to a conclusion that is influenced by thought itself is the lack of freedom that I speak of. To corrupt the exploration. We don’t go into it with I know or don’t know. It’s a freedom without he chooser/thought. That’s the point again. The self/thought will narrow its scope/interest by pursuing an idea. It’s like going into a observation with a fixed eye. Only seeing what we have our radar on, as opposed to seeing other possibilities. We will then miss the possibility of the whole and limit the observation to a small part.This will also lead to illusion and conflict. That precious holistic insight will never come when we have fixed notion/assumptions. Thought and its tendency to cut what was otherwise whole into parts/fragments. Fosho. The first step is the last step. Instead of acting with a fixed notion already in mind we are free to climb the mountain. To explore first “explorer” without taking that first step with preconceived notions as its motivation/inspiration. Freedom to explore without the veil altering the exploration. I would say..Don’t presuppose any quality about the journey/exploration. Instead start with my own limitations/barriers that will block “knowing”/seeing. There is a big difference between seeking, and seeking “enlightenment”. Seeking of itself to me means no preconceptions/presuppositions/no motive in either direction that influences what lies on the other side of the mountain. Freedom to seek is necessary dude?? Everything I write is directed to a self, it’s nature, barriers, limits, that will cause many years of conflict/suffering. Seeking without freedom causes this constant year after year striving. The up and down effect of now you see it, now you don’t. The dog chasing its tail dilemma. Again, Great question brah. You rock?

Good questions dude. “Enlightenment” tends to be a notion that has been accepted through time/thought and the self clings to the idea and pursues that idea/notion. So the destination seems to become more important than the exploration/observation. The destination corrupts the exploration/observation. Looking for a way out means I am not interested in the exploration/observation but instead to outcome of a self that “becomes enlightened”(psychological safety). We seem to take in ideas from the past(thought) and pursue those ideas to become something other than what we are that moment(escape). We seek what we have learned about enlightenment to end our pain, suffering, discontent. This itself is why we suffer. We are always looking to time (future) to solve psychological issues and that seems to be the root of those issues. We dis identify with what-is actually presently and we seek the idea, which is psychological evolution(time). We disidentify with “our experiences” which is the same as identifying with them. It’s in both cases a “movement of me/the chooser. That’s why I say the self is the path. The self is the means. It’s pretty gnarly fosho dude.

Well dude It would be silly for me to advise and for others to accept or deny anything. I am just referring to freedom from “psychological evolution” dude. The ending of that self loop makes for a free mind to explore. Then we don’t limit exploration/observation to the notion and “attainment of enlightenment”. Namean brah??

Learning a skill takes time. Thought is a technology not a means to freedom.

Cultivation is the selfs/egos best friend. The ending means the ending of continuity/cultivation, progression. That may be why it takes so long. To depend on time. The ego always gets what is wants. To push freedom in time. Pretty groovy dude.

The projection of a fixed notion to be attained such as “enlightenment” imples time itself. It soon becomes very apparent dudes, that cultivation/time implies the movement of self/ego. This may soon be seen that to accept time/cultivation as a means is the actual thing enslaving/preventing freedom. Otherwise known as resistance/attachment. To resist death.