Jack River

The path=self/ego The projection and pursuit of this OX=self/ego. In such pursuit implies the self/divison(time) is still in movement. We tend to understand the notion of no self intellectually/conceptually, but not actually.

Maybe the me is chasing itself(time/the ox). Maybe ‘the chasing’ is the movement of thought/thinker(psychological continuity). The chaser and chasing are the same movement of time(thought).

Is the experiencer different from that which it experiences? Fosho dude?

Fosho man. This has to relate to what was being referred to in the dont seek enlightenment thread. Good form! That last post is good dude.

“You” (self/ego/time) may “become” “enlightened” but that is short lived dudes. To become implies a wave that has a beginning and an end.. Life isn’t fixed dudes. Self is always moving. Like a wave that has no beginning and no end.

Gradual progression=resistance/attachment. What we depend on to gradually progress towards freedom (thought) is what enslaves. The self doesn’t like to hear this.

For me to laugh at you is antagonistic and is a divided action. But the “I” will be free one day...why do we do that? Why do we push freedom away as a future moment to be actualized? That’s for you to explore brah. No one can help you. For you to ask for help is also depending on time(a future moment) to find freedom.

I feel ya brah. I saw that happen as well. Usually that will happen when we subtly conform to an idea/concept/theory that gives us a sense of psychological security/feeling of permanence. But in that is a divided action of self. This is a temporary deal just like you said. The awsome thing is you are aware of that and are not ignoring it by clinching harder onto that specific idea/concept/notion. Keep it real dude?. You are being attentive to inattention. That’s important in self understanding. Keep learning about self limitation dude, which is understanding the experiencer and the experience as one unit in movement. The only teacher needed.?

The ego loves nothing more than a gradual progression of understanding/SEEING/FREEDOM. This is seen when the self is observed without conditions/limitations distorting observation.

Yep. The becoming is the issue. This accumulation of enlightenment/nondual teachings seems to add to/sustain the ego/self.

Fosho. It’s all you. It’s right there in plain sight.

One thing that hit me is that for the most part we are not actually conforming to any authority(guru) but actually we are conforming to our own inner authority(the divided action of self that looks to its knowledge/experience) to free “itself”. It’s a seeing the more subtle nature of psychological authority. Ultimately we need to understand ourselves in order to know when a psychological authority has been attached too.

Effort could probably also be referred to as a doing. Any response experience/knowledge/memory(time) to arrive/attain/accomplish a state of contentment/satisfaction/happiness. To seek in time a state of wholeness. Which is what divided action in the first place. That is what sustains the divison between the observer and the observed. This leads to that fragmented incomplete sense of being.

This movement/continuity sustains suffering.

To control as if the controller were different from the controlled. Every action in time is a movement of effort. Effort is time(a movement from the past/modified present/that projects a fixed gaol in the future), like “enlightenment” A movement that inherently pushes freedom further away into the future.

What do you say?

Also to look through the veil of self we tend to get caught up in distinctions through the word and its meaning. So for example the self will not see that fear=attachment/resistance/identification and pleasure/desire. Thought will tend to see these as all distinct separate parts of experience as opposed to one unit in movement. The holistic understanding seems to contribute to awareness/meditation/attention.

That’s a good question dude. I say thought can definitely be aware of itself. But can the veil of self (knowledge/experience-the past) that sees through its concepts/intellectual capacity be aware of movement? Or is that only being aware of a fragment of the total movement of thought? To look through the veil of self (what is familiar to self-or identified with) is to exclude parts that aren’t so familiar. So in that sense we are looking/being aware selectively.

To me starting to understand the self/thought and its nature is the beginning of meditation. Actually I find it rather impossible to meditate without prior understanding of thought/selfs limitations. There is a freedom that arises (holistic insight) which allows for meditation to flower without premeditated action of the self corrupting meditation.

Yep. For you to belive that statement I made is the same as someone looking for an answer without understanding the problem. They may then assume what I say is correct. If so we remain in the same boat as before.

@MiracleMan excellent response dude. Fosho. That is still a movement away from what is. There seems to be a big difference between controlling an outcome (what should be) and simply understand what is happening. Generally we tend to look for relief by finding answers to problems. We try looking for answers to solve our problem as opposed to learning/understanding the problem. Looking for answers can for example be what meditation techniques, forms of knowledge, and other traditionalal/cultural means can I use to free myself from myself. This is a kind of looking to authority to end my suffering. We generally don’t want to step back and observe the problem as it is. Which means understanding ourselves as we are, and not as we feel we should be, which is implied in techniques(means/answers) to solve my problem. Thought generally seems to move in the pattern of looking for solutions as opposed to understanding the problem.

Are we looking for a way out of self (conflict/suffering/discontentment)? If so the motive/means that we use to attain the gaol(time) may be the cause itself of self(conflict/suffering/discontentment). Can this be seen as a fact? What if every step away from what is(conflict/suffering/discontentment) sustains that what is? How do we know when we are moving away from what is?

No accumulation. A consistent all day awareness of all activity of self. Seems like few are dedicated to that. Very special fosho dude. Cool vid @Faceless?

Actually doing nothing is really difficult to a mind that doesn’t know what doing and nondoing is. We kinda have to go into(inquire into) thought/self and it’s nature first. Otherwise it’s an endless cycle of feeding/doing and then it becomes like other forms of meditation. where did you here of this technique?

Divison (divided movement/action) the above implies escape/psychological becoming, attachment/resistance/identification which then comes conflict/suffering.