Jack River

If a person never acquired any knowledge/past experience then what would “direct experience” be?

Control/effort may be being applied. Control/effort is resistance. The self will redirect its concentration on a certain part of experience. This is a movement of thought as the self in resistance to what is.

The path/religion/means to arrive fixes/presupposes the destination itself. The self projects the means which becomes in time the end/goal. By me conforming to a means/path/religion it is inevitable that I am resisting what is the case in myself. We tend to start off in belief. Belief in enlightenment/truth and what choice to make to “attain” such. We look everywhere but at ourselves. Many think it’s necessary to choose a path, but they don’t realize that is only resistance to what is. We can spend years and years looking outside ourselves depending on knowledge/practice/conflict to free us, or we can learn about ourselves free of any kind of authority. The only path you need is all right there in yourself. Watch it, learn, observe. Not according to any authority, even your own. Anyway it’s up to you dude. Good luck brah.??

Don’t be sorry dude.

Depending on psycho analytic therapy/religion/paths is all the same. Anyone who really wants to understand themselves does so. Dependence on any authority will only confuse more. Freedom first dudes.

Well can you start the exploration without conforming to a map/path/religion? What if the map is you? All there in plain sight.. what if truth is escaped by looking elsewhere?

What if a religion/path itself distorts/covers up truth. What if the self/ego and the path/religion conformed too are one movement of time/thought seeking security in itself, and therefore fueling its own illusion/suffering? Wouldn't that be something dudes

What if no religions/paths lead to truth. What if truth isn’t fixed? What if the selected religion/path is the root of of this suffering?

I feel ya. Seems to be the most difficult thing to do for a self. The self seems to put off freedom by admitting divided action/time as a means. It’s a subtle way for self to feed its divisive momentum of time. The self is time. So time as a means is very tasty ? for a self. Hope/time, is the selfs best friend, or as Watts has said awaiting that goody at the end of the road.

In this psychologically choosing also implies fear. As does a decision influenced by such choice. The self seems to remain mechanically in the groove of reward and punishment. Every action it takes seems to be an expression of this confusion/conflict/divison(time-psychological becoming or not becoming). Can this movement of time end while remaining in that groove?

fear is actually the product of divison itself. In divison is implied this fear of becoming and not becoming.

The self is scared of its continuity coming to and end as its content(everything thats in its field of consciousness). What it knows already, identifies with, even the ideas it has of attaining enlightenment. So the self(the i) isn’t actually scarred of “becoming enlightened” but is scared of the notions of change that are implied in such an idea as enlightenment. Identification with what is familiar is food for self. A self accumulates ideas about enlightenment and pushes its own projection of it. So the self created the image of enlightenment and pursues that image. So in actuality the self is pursuing itself. A form of self strengthening. This sustains the divison between the self/thought. But more subtly than resistance to become enlightened is the pursuit of enlightenment. Both very subtly imply a resistance to die psychologically to the known/knower(thought).

Any psychological movement away from what is to what should be is movement of thought/fear. We may fear the chance of certain experiences bringing about insecurity, but there is also the fear that drives us to demand certain experiences. Like thinking an experience will fulfill a sense of lacking. Both these fears imply stepping into and away from illusion which is illusion. This reaction to fear that is a step in the direction of illusion is a movement of divison/self continuity. This implies resistance/attachment/identification as an entity remains.

Fosho.. thank you too. I’m not really referring to the conceptual here but it seems to come off that way as we are communicating. I just wanted to see where you stood with this. This in and out of awareness seems to be common among people who have moments of clarity/timelessness. But the question of what is going on in that is interesting to me. One more question my dude. was this integration a gradual process, a puting together the parts so to form a whole so to speak, which implies time, or was it a set of divided movements/actions that lead to integration? Or was it involved in (the ending of time) one holistic action of what causes/sustians isolation/fragmentation? This integration has popped up on here forum before. Just wanted to see what’s be being meant by it. Thanks for your responses brah. Let me know what you think?

In most cases we seem to not be aware that we have already identified, then we disidentify, according to our knowledge/experience(memory)..So this seems to happen continuously. So that implies movement is still the fact. We can say there is no movement conceptually, but if there is movement(time-identification) it is so. In this the continuity of self/ego(time) is still the fact. You see what I mean?

We seem to disidentify as we already have identified.. This is why I ask what is implied in identification.. for the sake of us readers. What brings about this up and down/in and out movement of identification/movement of time?

I understand that. So there is no seer seeing, but a ‘seeing’. That is seeing, just as actual listening implies no listenter. Awareness that is whole obseves without the veil of the subject that distorts the object(what is observed). I understand this unawareness/nonbeing(no subject/object divison. This is implied in headlessness. No I get it dude. What I mean is if an action is divided there will be a tendency for time to enter back into the equation. This “state” of unawareness/nonbeing (no subject/object) will end and therefore back to the identification field. That in and out experiencing/awareness as you said before.. If so is that holistc insight/observation/seeing/awareness actually whole? Or is all of that still conditioned and continues to be limited to experience/the experiencer(time) and thefore the driving force is limited to memory(thought). Is this awareness/being/nonbeing “the nondual” an experience...or is it the ending of experience/identification/time?

The prior to concepts thought (no-time) thing is what I would call to see without eye of the familiar/past. But that in most cases seems to be short lived. “Movement takes over”. Just as refered to previously with in and out awareness.

No I get that fosho. I call that nonbeing/unawareness. Does it? Fosho...but, is that the product of memory recalling that? Therefore divison. Because if there was nothing to move, why is there movement?

No I get that dude. But even that becomes a memory so that is to not quite eternal. So “it” becomes time bound again. So we cannot quite say awareness is eternally present. Like it hasn’t become like a wave with no beginning and no end. I mean you said you drift in and out. So there is a awareness unconditioned that is seeing a conditioned field. But there is a drawing in and out type of movement taking place. That what your saying?

So the fruit dropping snapped you out of a state of unawareness? That what you mean?

Is there a certain memory (knowledge/experience) associated with that finger snapping that allows for this?

If we are bring mindful of a doing..what qualities as doing?

Doing nothing is the the most difficult and the most simple nothing to do. Im not sure about this video you mentioned, but doing nothing has nothing to do with rules/requirements, techniques/effort. What is it that qualifies as a doing? Might want to understand what this doing is first dude. What is it that your being told not to do? Can we understand that “doing”/what ever that is. Understand the whole of that doing. Then in that holistic seeing/understanding is action of NONDOING/holistic action.

What do you mean by mindful? What does being mindful imply? And we may notice that when we are paying to much attention to each particular thought we are actually getting sucked into a sort of concentration which excludes attention on some parts and puts attention on other parts, just as you noticed while trying to be attentive/present with people. Have you gone into the self/ego, thought, and there nature? Are you aware of that entire map? The self seems to introduce other maps/methods/means/techniques and doesn’t understand the map that is direct in experience to be observed. Learning the map as it is, without yet introducing another map(motive/means) may help you my dude. Observation of what is already experienced.