Jack River

To a self/ego, seeking to ‘achieve’ “enlightenment” is no different than a self/ego looking to achieve success/gratification/satisfaction in an “experience”. The self/ego strives to become something in time.

@Charlotte thank you! I like reading your posts..very genuine/honest fosho?

I’m fairly certain you missed what I’m saying here. It hasn’t quit clicked yet what I’m talking about. Which is common here on the forum. The holistic understanding is its own discipline. I’m not talking about the conditioned discipline of authority. Discipline that arises naturally without any type of divisive action of time/the mechanical self(cultivated/progressive). Routine has its place physically, but it’s the psychological habit that I’m referring too. This holistic insight seems to be very foreign to people. The mind seems to avoid, overlook, resist the simplicity of it all. Thought tends to move only within its own conditioning, which explains why habit is a go to to end habit...pretty interesting though fosho.

Once we start observing/leaning about ourselves we will see we are not only conditioned to follow outward authority but conditioned to conform to our own imward authority as well (knowledge/experience as memory-thought). The authority of the self(psychological time). This is the beginning of freedom dudes. ?

Embodiment is the result of seeing holistically the falsesnss in freedom(ending of suffering) being brought about through cultivation/progression/time, through habit which actually causes more fear/conflict/suffering. Conceptual/intellectual understanding will not bring about this embodiment you speak of. Seeing the fact of what is, and not moving away from it does. To see the truth of the fact without fear preventing that seeing does. The conceptual/intellectual accumulation and the mechanical self are really one unit of Time which looks to apply its very own structure to end the problems that structure/mechanism has brought about. No amount of knowledge/habits will end suffering. The habit/accumulated knowledge/experience is all the movement of the entity/self/ego/conditioning. To look to that same entity/conditioned movement of the past for help sustains that conflict/suffering and divison between the “me” and “my” problems. Nothing wrong with cultivating routines/knowledge/experience(thought) practically to solve physical survival problems; like skill development and such. But when it comes to ending suffering(the psychological field), we may soon see that to depend on habit/knowledge/experience to do so actually sustains divison/suffering, and keeps that conditioned action of disorder(fear/anger/isolation and image projection alive). Do we really need any outside agency(map) that offers answers to end our suffering, or do we already have the only map we need right here in plain site(the self/ourselves/thought)? Instead of looking to any outward authority can we instead just watch/observe/see what-is in ourselves? To try and cultivate our way to psychological freedom implies a resistance to die. And it’s only in psychological death that there is actual harmonious living. Embodiment comes about with holistic action. An action that is not the product of divided action(two or more step process and then action). Anyway that’s the way I see it my dudes?

Maybe a philosophy of no philosophy. Instead of seeing in accordance to a philosophy he talked about seeing what-is actual/fact, and not what we think we should see or should be. He talked about how we resist seeing what-is. Nature of mind/thought/self. Attachment/resistance/identification(time).

Intelligent whole/complete action that sees the danger in applying habit as a means to end habit.

That’s a great place to be dude... That feeling will tend to motivate to escape/react, which implies all movement from the past/self(attachment/resistance/identification in action). To be aware of the constant psychological movement away from what is, to what should be(fear in movement). That’s awareness dude. What needs to be processed? Remeber the intelligent action we taked about. The only reason we need to process is to be able to communicate the insight. But the essence of this insight has its root beyond any continuity of process(evaluation/analysis/interpretation). You see what-is as it actually is right(the fact). Why process? The i who processes is the process?

I think I feel what you mean dude. For me this was come about by going into the nature of fear. Which meant seeing the fact of how fear was evaded day in and day out. Then in that fact, truth was revealed about how I escaped what-is to what should be (influenced by a movement of the past-self) which distorted, and corrupted, observation, understanding, investigating. A total and holistic understanding of the fact that any movement away from fear or towards pleasure/satisfaction/psychological security, which is still fear, will bring about a looking/seeing/understanding that is conditioned and therefore corrupt/incoherent. Can’t explore a truth when there is no freedom to do so. Im not familiar with Jana yoga and all that, but what you wrote about seems similar dude.

Its understanding into the whole of habit. How habbit is a movement of resistance/attachment/identification(self/thought), a cosistent movement of psychological time. An in and out, away from and too, movement of psychological becoming. To get caught in the endless cycle of desire pursuing pleasure/gratification/satisfaction. To see that getting involved in habit only sustains the divison between the thinker and the thought,experiencer and the experience. To see that that is what sustains the compulsive thought chatter/inner dialog between “me” and “my” ego. When this seeing is holistic that seeing ends or won’t even begin to touch habit. It’s an instantaneous/complete action of itself that ends all habit and won’t get involved with habbit from then on out.

You really know how to party @who chit definelty the way I see it. What was said here is not the product of the intellect/thought. It’s a seeing not limited to mind/self/time.

You said it dude. Haha you crack me up dude. Oh the games a self will play eh. When it comes to the psychological field conditioning is far from healthy dude. To cultivate and condition thought to function(learn a language, to learn an art is great/healthy). But psychologically that is where divison/conflict/fear/attachment/identification/resistance is born. Is that healthy, or orderly? Or the reason a self gets involved in all this self reflection/self understanding/exploration in the first place?

It’s right in plain sight dudes...look!!!

Me either man. Haha its just so clear to mind that doesn’t escape the fact. You know I’m amazed at how many “enlightened beings” can’t see what-is. They claim to see THE BIG WHAT IS, but seem to not even see the condition/illusory what-is. It’s quite entertaining and sad actually.

Dude common who you kidding heh lol Haha dude.. process to end suffering. You got some work to do brah. Don’t bother arguing about it. Go into yourself man.

Haha. Look, see, without “your” ego/self veil of the past distorting the obviousness of it all dude. Don’t evaluate/analyze, SEE! Good luck my dude?

But you claim to recondition it? To control it? We just simply expressed that falsity.

You were caught at recondition the ego to make it “healthy”. You can’t run from that statement. You can edit it I guess though

Thats the point dude. That’s what’s implied in saying you are going to recondition the ego. Haha what we are saying is it’s all own unti in movement(time). You have been caught in your loop of ?. Don’t hide. Embrace it, learn from it. Love it

Actually surprised this is not discussed more on the forum. To see the generative order as a whole, which the self cannot do with its mechanical/conditioned reaction-response(attachment/resistance/identification). Seeing through the veil of self is to not see at all what-is actually the case, but what should be instead. The self distorts what-is to what should be according to its accumulated bais/prejudice. Unconditioned observation implies observation without evaluating.

@robdlA most excellent observation dude. Especially nondual knowledge dude haha. It soon may be seen that the self(ego) and its ‘personal’ accumulated knowledge/experience (series of images) is in fact one in the same movement of time/self image. The self is its content..it’s personal knowledge/experience(memory).

Divided action of the self(a fragmented action of time).

Yep!! Dude you should respond with that more..Well wrote expressed very well.

Whoooooo are you, who, who, who, who, who, I really wanna know??? hahaha..aw man, good times dude?

Ah I see whos going to transform this conditioning? Is one image going to control another? Or is there an entity that stands aside and directs/chooses/controls what images to exclude and keep?