Angelite

Anyway, i wanna add something that i find really beautiful and profound from my retreat last weekend. It's a different book from the one we use during the retreat but he introduce me to this book, from Imam Ibn 'Ata Allah Al-Iskandari , "Al-Hikam" , which i think sum it all up How can it be conceived that something veils Him, since He is the One who manifests everything? How can it be conceived that something veils Him, since He is the one who is manifest through everything? How can it be conceived that something veils Him, since He is the One who is manifest in everything? How can it be conceived that something veils Him, since He is the Manifest to everything? How can it be conceived that something veils Him, since He was the Manifest before the existence of anything? How can it be conceived that something veils Him, since He is more manifest than anything? How can it be conceived that something veils Him, since He is the One alongside of whom there is nothing? How can it be conceived that something veils Him, since He is nearer to you than anything else? How can it be conceived that something veils Him, since, were it not for Him, the existence of everything would not have been manifest? It is a marvel how Being has manifested in non-being, and how the contingent has been established alongside of Him who possesses the attribute of Eternity! http://themathesontrust.org/papers/islam/ibnataallah-hikam.pdf <<< i cried reading this~~ I also wanna thanks the two guru who had explained to me about this knowledge during the retreat. And of course everyone in this forum who had tried to make me understand the truth . Really appreciate it... *and of course, in reality, it is just God's intelligence tryin to teach me through His manifestations in everyone. Only to Him we should be thankful to~

What i got from Session 1 : - Criteria of a saint : 1. Conscious and cognizant of God 2. Faith / belief in God - If you have these two criteria, God will give you "Furqan" which means a criterion, a light by which you can judge/differentiate between right and wrong. -He talks about something that i didn't know the translation to it. (both in a language which is not my native). Basically it's about two types of people. One who are given the knowledge & are a master to it the way it is supposed to be, and the other who are given the knowledge but didn't understand it the way it really is & further corrupted the knowledge & like to hold themselves high above others(very proud), when in fact they know nothing about the truth. Okay I got class now i will come back later. This is only one of the six sessions. We discuss a lot, about rationalist & materialist paradigm. and all of the other paradigms. Philosophy. & most importantly, we talk about God. The Being that I got confused about. The characteristic and nature of Being.......

بِسۡمِ اللهِ الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِيۡمِ If the angels are made from pure light, the devils are made from fire, The physical body of a human being made from soil, then what does the soul made up from? The soul that is eternal and immortal... the soul that had lived way before God put it into our physical being. The me that is beyond what's physical, as the body will be buried into the earth when it die. The soul that will be taken out from the physical body when we die, with only memories that remains, what does that soul made up from? the soul that will experience other dimensions as it passed through physical death, when the veils had been lifted, when it realized about the reality of this temporary world we used to lived in. i wonder, what its made up from, God did say that He will give us a new form, a new body of a 31 years old for everyone. But when He put that soul into the new form, what does this immortal soul together with it's experiences be it the one that it remembers or the one it doesn't( memories of before it was put into a human embryo when they made promise to God) . It is consciousness for sure.Conscious of all the things that's happened in this particular dimension which is the world we live in. but even within this world, there are dimensions not known/seen by humans except few. And that consciousness will remain through the other dimensions as it leave the human body. what does our soul made up from? what does God created if from? I know that God can create anything from nothing in the blink of an eye. He informed us what everything is made up from but the soul. I've been thinking about this for quite a while now. Since earlier this year. I have met several people who may know the answer, but couldn't bring myself to ask them about it. As far as i understand, God didn't tell us about it. The only description i got from the Quran is this, (17:85) And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the soul. Say, "The soul is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little." (15:28) Recall when your Lord said to the angels: "I will indeed bring into being a human being out of dry ringing clay wrought from black mud. (15:29) When I have completed shaping him and have breathed into him of My Spirit,19 then fall you down before him in prostration." 19. “And have breathed into him of My Spirit” means when I have cast a reflection of My divine characteristics on him. This shows that the soul of man implies life, knowledge, power, will, discretion and other human characteristics in the aggregate. These are in reality a slight reflection of divine characteristics that has been cast on the human body, which was originally created from dried clay. And it is this divine reflection on the human body which has raised him to the position of the vicegerent of Allah and made him that worthy being before whom angels and every earthly thing should bow down. The source of each characteristic of everything is one divine characteristic or the other, as is borne by a tradition: Allah divided mercy into one hundred parts: then He reserved ninety-nine parts for Himself and sent down the remaining one part to the earth. It is because of that one part that the creatures show mercy to one another. So much so that it is due to this that an animal refrains from placing the hoof on its young ones. In this connection one has to be on strict guard against the notion that the possession of a part of any divine characteristic amounts to the possession of a part of Godhead. This is because Godhead is absolutely beyond the reach of each and every creation But the more i think about it, i wonder if the soul is made from something that is part of God. That's why people confuse themselves as God.....? Or because it's true that their innate nature do comes from 'a part of God' hence with all the confusions. When i think about it, it reminds me of Jesus a.s. His existence defies logic, without a father, the Son of Virgin Mary. But God is capable of creating anything at His will. Is the creation of Jesus similar to Adam? but not quite actually. Adam was created completely independent of ........ About Jesus, he is a Prophet of his time. But definitely not a typical human being. God created him differently. Only him and Adam. the rest of the human being in all of history are made through conception and later breathed into it a *soul from God*(which i am confused now what it's made up from. is it really a part of God? or did God created it from nothing? or what it's really made up from apart from being our consciousness). But about Jesus, he is different. For God knows what's best. Did God created him differently because God had plans for the coming of Jesus? okay i didn't know really. Sahih International O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. Quran4:171 And remember when the angels said, "O Mary, God sends you the good news of a Command of His: his name shall be Messiah, Jesus son of Mary. He will be highly honored in this world and in the Next World and he will be among those favored by God. He will speak to the people alike when in the cradle and when grown up, and he will be among the righteous." Hearing this, Mary said, "How, O Lord, shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me?" "Thus shall it be,"44 was the answer. God creates whatever He wills. When He decrees a thing, He only says, "Be" and it is. (Continuing their message, the angels added,) "And God will teach him the Book and wisdom, and give him the knowledge of the Torah and the Gospel, and appoint him as His Messenger to the children of Israel." Quran 3:45-49 (And when he came as a Messenger to the children of Israel, he said,) "I have come to you with a clear Sign from your Lord: in your very presence, I make the likeness of a bird out of clay and breathe into it and it becomes, by God's Command, a bird. I heal those born blind and the lepers and I bring to life the dead by God's Command: I inform you of what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Surely there is a great Sign for you in all this, if you have a mind to believe. 45 And I have come to confirm those teachings of the Guidance of the Torah which are intact in my time. 46 Lo! I have come with a clear Sign from your Lord; 47 so fear God and obey me. Indeed God is my Lord, and also your Lord; therefore worship Him alone: that is the straight way."48 Quran 3:49-51 Our soul/ruuh , is it made from God? I mean, it is God creation but did God create it from a part of Himself? Or out of nothing( or something of which we didn't know)? It is the only thing in this existence that is eternal when nothing else will last forever in this world....this dimension... but the soul is immortal. it may get into another form but it will continue to live in the next life, next dimension. This life will look silly the moment our veils had been lifted when we died. I don't know thou. Haha i don't know ~~ 3/11/18

He even talk about that there's two ways people get it right, one through experiencing awakening and the other through understanding. But I still wanna experience the Absolute

@Rumpled Rhapsody I need more time to understand "Orientation-north" , english is not my first language too~~ And, a few hours ago I couldn't really make sense of what u guys are tryin to convey, but, actually right now I am attending a weekend retreat, discussing about the very similar topics we're talking about here, & i just finished the first session. And it make sense now. I think I get it. He speaks in a language tht I could understand, from the islamic perspective. And now I think I get what Leo was tryin to convey. Can't wait to share it with you guys. Edit* Wowww I just finished the second session anddd everything are clear to me now I can understand both perspectives yayyyyy. Too much information in less thn two hours and he already explained all the things tht everyone had been discussing here in actualized.org . And it makes so much sense to me now ^^ wuuu~ I am so excited now and can't wait to share my understanding with u guys. But I think I need time reorganize all those information and to do justice in translating wht i've learned into english. Wow just wow. I think I had found someone who knows it all from the perspective tht I could easily understand (as in islamic perspective) . How I wish his book is in English so tht more people would benefit from it. I had so much clarity now ❤❤✨

@SoonHei is the "God body" (in the context that you're tryin' to explain it to me) equal to our soul?..........

observing the thought from a higher point of view/bigger picture? okay

@SoonHei oh yea but God had no body we shouldn't compare Him to His creations tho. & okay that makes more sense . But i got more questions now. What does this make of the Islamic rulings then? God shall still follow the Book that He sent down to the "Him who had forgot who He is" cuz that's the only way He could take off those masks? What happened to the God who forgot if the veils hadn't been taken off forever(didn't reach awakening) hence not realizing it to infinity? Or, the game would be over for all on the day of judgement? or when we die? in the other dimension, God the Real One would drop it off. all those masks(hence the realization of Absolute Truth) hahaha okay i'll stop now. i think i should focus on my concentration during prayer first to become enlightened. Till then~

what would i have to purified myself from to believe "i am God" literally? do i have to stop believing in God?The higher Being we called Allah? How can I do that when i have seen and experience so many things that only increases my clarity and belief about God...... which is beyond the nature of this dimension. i mean ,world.....beyond logic and nature of orders. This can't be my ego.

oh okay. i think i kinda understand it a lil bit. I had think about it for a little while. No matter how much i think about "I am God" ,literally it doesn't sounds true to me, at all, i can't relate, i am not(yet) God haha jk. But i think i know what it means. In the religion tht i believe in, we simply had clarity. and a peace of mind when it comes to God. No matter how i look at it, and observing my religion and different world view, i still had that clarity.clarity that i am on the right track. i haven't found something that doesn't make sense to me in this religion. the more i look into everything, it only strengthen my clarity. Though i haven't experience becoming the auliyaa', the friend's of God but i do know of some people who are really close to God and His messenger, and we call them saints. whenever something that defies logic happened , we know that those are the people of God. The most important criteria to be God's friend is to purify yourself. These people, they have the best of character,and are very wise( i call it intelligence). they can meet the prophet many times. no more distinction between this dimension and a higher dimension. these people can be in both dimensions at the same time. But they never preach to us that "you are God" . Instead , it's always about "surrendering yourself to God completely" ,and purifying yourself, in every aspect of life including food and your relationship with God and others. But, they never say they are God, in fact they didn't like it if we we're to treat them too specially as a guru, very down to earth.They are human , just like any other prophets, but are given the perception of God, as they are those who are closest to God, hence To think that "i am God" literally, is kinda self centered, as if the world revolves around u. (At least that's what normal people would understand). But, i think i get it. It's up to you how u wanna think about it. be it centered around "God" or centered around "You". Both can be your Absolute Reality depending on how you wanna view the thing u called "GOD"/tht experience.. basically it's the same thing, but worded differently.(or viewed differently?) one you say it's you. the other you say it's the God that u surrendered yourself to. but referring to the very same experience and understanding. or it could be that those saints are tryin to explain in ways that will actually bring us to the real truth. instead of making many people misunderstood the real meaning if they we're to tell you "you are God". n not make people eventually realize it's meaning if they go with that approach. it's just my guessing tho. idk. there's a quote in islam, that everything are the breathe of Allah. and to Him we surrendered Ourselves. I think, about the reality, it will reach to the same thing, to that very same reality, but worded and viewed differently. we can question that our physicality may not actually be physical . But, whatever it is, it exist(that nothingness exist). and it is the creation of God. All coming from the One God that we believe in. If He decided that He wants to let you experience God's perception, then it will happen. But don't be too "self"-centered that you disregard the Higher Being. And say it's "you" after He had make Himself known to You. Which only happens only to those who had really purified themselves, a person who are genuinely sincere, honest and free from bad character,especially the heart. to those who had experience the Absolute, Am i gettin there? or still too far from it? did i get it wrong? a question : if you have reached enlightenment, do you still have to meditate? in my case our meditation is the daily prayers. if I am God, does it mean i prayed to myself then? why would i pray to myself haha. but, i am not God. it's gonna be a long journey~

And of course along with the prophet's way of reaching enlightenment. I'd do both.

Haha okay i'll try to contemplate on that

You mean, living an infinite life forever & ever in that state?without having to die, as physical death is an illusion?.......i have yet to experience enlightenment hence couldn't really make sense of it. Only then I will make my own judgement about this. But then to be enlightened, i will have to be a saint first, a direct manifestation of God first.......it's gonna be a long journey~ Anyway, thanks Leo.

And why do we came back into our physical self n not live forever in that Infinity? Why do humans can only tap into that experience and not live by that forever? Or do we need to die physically first? I mean physical body death. If that's only perception, why can't we live in that infinite consciousness forever? Why are we still humans? Oh okay does that mean, if we can control our consciousness , we can make our body immortal(if you wish for that)?. Oh now it reminds me of something. Now I get it how those saints can literally teleport to different places. But they are not immortal tho......Their body will die for sure. Never have I ever met anyone immortal. Unless, u wanna think of it's soul. The soul will never die and will continue to live forever in the next dimension. But the physical body will definitely die. Talking about human context. But if everything is an illusion, which does make sense but not literally. Cuz God did told us that we should live in this world like a traveler and not be too attached to it. Cuz this world is only temporary n nothing in this world will ever last forever(except 3 things that we can bring into next dimension*)........ But...the soul will continue to live to infinity in the other dimension when it has separated from the physical body when we died... physically.... I don't know. Could this be my ego & self survival's deception? Cuz I'll never know. For now I truly believe in my religion. It still make sense to me. Not a blind faith for sure. At least from my personal experiences.....

A good example from Islamic perspective studied by William C. Chittick. Highly recommend his book : " The Sufi Path of Knowledge ,Ibn al- 'Arabi's Metaphysics of Imagination "