vibv

@BlackPhil But I'm sure there are people that have never heard of Jesus, nor will they in their lifetime. What about them? How can you look for something when you don't know about it?

Did you test that?

What about people that never come in contact with christianity? Are they just doomed?

@SOUL That's certainly the case when you're on the so-called spiritual path in the beginning. But there can be only one non-experience, because there can't be a distinction between two non-experiences.

I know exactly what feeling you mean. I personally don't experience it on or after most psychedelics. It happens on weed though. It's probably just heightened social anxiety as you said already. Maybe take a few days off after an experience and be in solitude to contemplate the trip.

@Breakingthewall Have you tried to stop pushing? Or are there responsibilities that don't let you? What stops you?

1. is this also the case while on them during the trip? 2. it could be a hint that you're not very connected to the people around you or that you just don't vibe with them. Being sober it's way easier to just pretend. 3. Maybe you just need that time to process the experience. Is it only for a few days and then back to normal or does some of it linger after that?

Having no money can lead to the experience of becoming wealthy, which is way more amazing than just being rich. If you recognize that the people around you are stupid and evil it's a great hint that you have unfinished emotional business somewhere. The people around you are never random. Illness can be really painful and uncomfortable. But it can also tell you that some things you did in your life don't work our anymore. It is the body fighting for its survival, which is an expression of Love. The possibility of illness also gets you to treat your body well. It makes you appreciate being healthy in the first place.

@Yimpa @Breakingthewall It's all perfect in its context. Dysfunction has a reason, often some kind of misunderstanding. It is beautiful because it shows you a lack of understanding of some part of reality. War is perfect because it is an expression of our egoic structures. by feeling the pain and seeing all the tragedy it becomes clear that our ways were wrong. Essentially suffering means that we're not in alignment with Love. Suffering is love because it tells us our disconnection from it in a way that's impossible to ignore. Suffering is often the greatest teacher. No suffering is ever for nothing. It all pans out in the end.

Lucifer literally means bringer of light ? (Edit: correction, it means lightbearer) But in my personal experience so far Love presented itself as an incredibly bright light that touched and spoke directly to my heart. It seemed to not only contain all colors, but all emotions too. In fact I'd say every emotion is a facet of love, like white light shining through a prism. And it had humour, a lot of it.

Transcending humanity.

Bingo.

Okay, Leo said no more beating up, so I'm trying to be nice. That's not really true. Your actions have consequences. If you do "evil" stuff (or call it egotism) it will fall back on you in one way or the other. Yeah but it's about living the best and most beautiful life you can. This is your only chance to make THIS life the best possible version it can be. I see where you're coming from. But you're misunderstanding what "confronting" means. I think you're just using those very crude ways of confronting yourself with seemingly difficult things to distract you from confronting the real difficult things - those that are able to shatter your view of yourself and the world. It's about raising your consciousness by seeing THROUGH the shadows. You don't want to wallow in negativity, that's only going to lower your state of consciousness and thus leading to more suffering.

Every time life throws you a curveball it's a reminder that it's even more beautiful than you thought. But first your current worldview has to be shattered.

@nistake If you're beyond the ego stuff absolute solipsism becomes the most beautiful thing ever. Hang in there You imagined every character here, that's right, but it gets even weirder, because a higher version of you imagined YOU. And so on to infinity, but on every level there's totally different rules and versions of reality. To discover that greater version of yourself is most relieving, because you realize that you're not alone - yet you of course are all alone, but it doesn't feel lonely, but more connected than you could ever feel before. You are watching yourself while you figure this thing out. It's like an enigma. You're a creator in formation.

You are.

In my day to day I live with the awareness that everything that happens is absolutely perfect and that this very moment IS the current expression of the Absolute, there's nothing beyond that and never will be. It is very clear to me that some sort of further realization of nothingness/everythingness or unexpressed infinite potential holds no further value to me. That's what's absolutely clear in my direct awareness. It's enough to have had that realization, and that mustn't be a huge event. It's more like a simple "aha". If that's what you mean by "enlightenment", it's no experience at all, it's just a recognition. Otherwise it would just be another experience you remember after it happened.

@Breakingthewall Okay, now we're talking. It's difficult to talk about these things because everybody seems to use different terms for the same thing and vice versa. I know that I am that. But that's not where the fun is at. That was an awakening and insight I had. Here on this earth being a human is where we belong and where things are happening. It's important to realize that you are prior to everything so you don't get lost in it so easily, but after that it's about the PLAY. Lila - the divine play - is not a trivial thing. It has way more depth than most spiritual people seem to be aware of. If you're ignoring this because it's just relativity, it's just one finite expression of the infinite, the Absolute, then you didn't have this realization yet. We're here to Play. Thinking that once you got "it" you're done is just human spiritual paradigm and false, that's not what this is ultimately about. It's about EXPERIENCING divine Love and Beauty - which has no end to its depth - not just KNOWING that you are that.

I know both from direct experience.

Yep, I see it the same way. I regularly have those moments but between those I‘m involved in the dream to various degrees. Also every one of those moments of recognition is unique and they also come in various degrees. Generally my day to day consciousness keeps increasing generally, but there are times when I fall back pretty hard for some period of time, only to awaken more deeply after. The sentiment of some seems to be that if it deepens it can’t be the real thing. In my experience and through insights during those moments I’m convinced that the depth knows no end. If there is a „final awakening“ it will not be possible to return, that I’m pretty sure of.

Haha, thank God you're the dreamer anyway. I'm allergic to that presumptuous complacent demeanor. It's not achieving anything besides circle-jerking. It's not bringing anything of value into the world. What's the point in feeling enlightened and above everybody else? Who decides that anyway? And don't tell me "you just know it", that's an invitation for the ego to spin some narrative it can cling to while completely convincing itself that it doesn't do that. Fuck enlightenment. If you got a problem with that statement you're certainly not enlightened lol

@Yimpa I agree. But we gotta push through the bullshit somehow, jeeez

Opening myself completely leads to realizing that there CAN‘T BE ENLIGHTENMENT in the way you all use that word. Because it assumes that there is a before and after — it splits reality in half and discriminates in enlightened and unenlightened beings. Enlightenment is bullshit. There’s only one kind of real „enlightenment“ and that is realizing that you never were NOT enlightened. Everything else is human bullshit.

@Water by the River enlightenment is the realization that there is none. That was the end of seeking for me. there’s nothing to achieve, everything is always perfect, has always been, and there is nothing but the absolute playing for itself. I am that. But my point stands, it’s not the end, it’s a beginning. It goes way deeper than it seems. My issue is the notion that there is „just“ this experience, nothing more to see, except „other“ experiences. but there are far greater experiences, there are magnitudes of significance, and we have got a chance on this planet to create something of cosmic proportions. The play of the absolute has a depth that goes beyond what any human can conceive of right now. And it’s about connecting with that. We are not finished.

I know I give me exactly what I need right now. I love every last bit of it.