1liamo78

Hi everyone, as followers of actualized most of us believe that free will is a complete illusion and our lives are fully determined, this is also discussed on actualized Leo's video on free will, so I cannot get past that, as the more I research the question of free will it seems that there is none, and if this is the case , is there really any point in self actualizing or in believing that we can change anything about ourselves or teach anyone anything? It's a very pessimistic point but I cannot pretend that it isn't an issue God bless Liam

@Moksha thank you, I completely agree , I very rarely get offended anymore, unless its something really unpleasant and untrue from someone who I love , people who claim to be awake get offended all the time just by different opinions, I actually noticed that you didn't get offended by my different opinions and that is cool and very rare, My Insights into reality were profound in the sense they are so different to how I and almost everyone imagines how it is, but part of that is a realisation (or at least a belief) that these insights are relative , like a fish might realise that there is a world outside the water but in the great scale of things that realisation might be profound to the fish, it still knows nothing, it doesn't know it's on planet in a universe etc

that isI @Moksha this concept and claim that I hear every day from many different people of “being awake”, I find very egotistical and delusional, I really am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but that is how I see it, you can expand your consciousness and gain wisdom and even reach a certain state of mind that changes your reality or become conscious of your infinite awareness, but I assure you that there are many many many more insights to get and knowledge to gain and higher levels of consciousness and I’m sure that there are many truths about reality and existence that nobody has ever come close to realising, I’m not an awakened being or an enlightened man but I’m sure there are many things that I could teach you that would drastically change your view of reality and I’m sure that there are many many things that you could teach me that would drastically change my view of reality, god bless you and spread kindness and understanding ?✌️

that is a very good and thought provoking reply and made me think, it comes across as being very honest and rational, but I have been studying philosophy and the nature of reality for many many years passionately, and I use truth extremely mindfully and regimentally , and that includes any time I get egotistical, I know I’m not of higher than average intelligence but my strict promise to truth and extreme open mindedness plus obsessing about reality makes up for that, people who know me always say I’m really clever but I know I’m not, I’m often the last person to get a joke and I’m terrible at maths for example, the reason I say this is because as the years go by the lonelier I get because of the profound insights I have had about reality, it’s extremely lonely, but I refuse to say that it’s because I am awake and they are not, that is an insult to my fellow human beings, I have just experienced states of consciousness that i can never forget, but I know 100% that as a human being we know nothing and to claim to be awake and to have experienced a state of consciousness that leads us to believe it an ultimate realisation is narrow minded, almost everyone answered my question with a spiritual cliche, we can talk humbly, if someone asks you what part of the brain deals with vision, you can just say the frontal cortex or wherever it is without saying who is asking the question or the brain isn’t real or some other we have all heard before, you can just answer ?‍♂️ @Moksha this concept and claim that I hear every day from many different people of “being awake”, I find very egotistical and delusional, I really am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but that is how I see it, you can expand your consciousness and gain wisdom and even reach a certain state of mind that changes your reality or become conscious of your infinite awareness, but I assure you that there are many many many more insights to get and knowledge to gain and higher levels of consciousness and I’m sure that there are many truths about reality and existence that nobody has ever come close to realising, I’m not an awakened being or an enlightened man but I’m sure there are many things that I could teach you that would drastically change your view of reality and I’m sure that there are many many things that you could teach me that would drastically change my view of reality, god bless you and spread kindness and understanding ?✌️

@allislove I am rumi? @integral I @Moksha this concept and claim that I hear every day from many different people of “being awake”, I find very egotistical and delusional, I really am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but that is how I see it, you can expand your consciousness and gain wisdom and even reach a certain state of mind that changes your reality or become conscious of your infinite awareness, but I assure you that there are many many many more insights to get and knowledge to gain and higher levels of consciousness and I’m sure that there are many truths about reality and existence that nobody has ever come close to realising, I’m not an awakened being or an enlightened man but I’m sure there are many things that I could teach you that would drastically change your view of reality and I’m sure that there are many many things that you could teach me that would drastically change my view of reality, god bless you and spread kindness and understanding ?✌️

I have seen this video before, I probably seen most YouTube videos on free will lol was a bit of an obsession for a while ?

Sounds great, but I have not reached the place where I don't question these things, there are many great philosophers from history and contemporary that question these subjects passionately, from Plato and Aristotle to Carl Jung, dennant to Hume to Leo gura even, that quote from rumi may be true but irrelevant to most of us, but it's a cool reply ?✌

I really appreciate replys that have no spiritual cliches or that are trying to sound great, just honest, humble responses that stick to the question at hand as simply as possible, like wonderseekers replys ?✌?

@integral if I try to explore reality without my sense making filters then I would not be able to ask questions or read or write or respond with anything really

@Moksha now that is smart, I think we can learn from other people to a certain extent but it is far deeper when its understood by experience, and when I hear someone saying that they know nothing and don't spout of "facts" and are cool with not knowing then I automatically take that person more seriously

@Moksha this concept and claim that I hear every day from many different people of “being awake”, I find very egotistical and delusional, I really am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but that is how I see it, you can expand your consciousness and gain wisdom and even reach a certain state of mind that changes your reality or become conscious of your infinite awareness, but I assure you that there are many many many more insights to get and knowledge to gain and higher levels of consciousness and I’m sure that there are many truths about reality and existence that nobody has ever come close to realising, I’m not an awakened being or an enlightened man but I’m sure there are many things that I could teach you that would drastically change your view of reality and I’m sure that there are many many things that you could teach me that would drastically change my view of reality, god bless you and spread kindness and understanding ?✌️

@DefinitelyNotARobot I'm a musician myself, and for sure, the more I practice a piece the more my "in flow" recordings sound better

@DefinitelyNotARobot exactly

@At awe yes for sure it influences the answer, but we can ask that question about every single thing we do or say or ask , and sometimes we just want to talk about a simple subject without having to consider everything about the nature of our existence etc, I could say does the nature of your existence influence your reply to me and we could go on asking that question forever and it will have as much influence as anything else, so I'm just asking a specific question for a specific discussion

@DefinitelyNotARobot we can only go into flow after we have gained experience of a certain activity, for example playing the keyboard first you learn the chords and scales and get finger muscle memory and through practice you can start going into the flow, with art you first learn about perspective and colour etc , someone with no painting experience can paint in the flow but it would be crap compared to someone in the flow who has had experience and practice

@freejoy my ego seems to enjoy getting me into trouble ?

@freejoy sorry bud,I don't understand what you mean Cast the first stone to who and for what?

The subject of free will has many ramifications if determinism is how it is, ramifications like crime and punishment, there are many philosophical talks questioning whether people should or should not be punished for crimes when they were not free to choose and many more ramifications, obviously these side matters are to complicated and massive in agendas to discuss

@neovox if I understand your reply, that would suggest that free will is an illusion but we completely feel that we are free to choose, Well that seems to be the case But I might have misunderstood your point, I am getting to tired, its 5.36am in the UK, and I need to get my skinny ass to bed ?✌?

@At awe no, that is a discussion about spirituality and consciousness and a wider discussion on these matters, I’m talking about the specific subject of free will, Leo made a whole video about it if you want to understand more about the subject, and it is a video specifically about free will and not all the other spiritual stuff

@Jodistrict at last someone who understands my post, if we have free will then we are the only known thing in the universe that doesn’t follow cause and effect, but the determinists are assuming that consciousness comes from a material brain, but consciousness could be separate from space time and material and not be subject to the laws of cause and effect, but there are experiments that show brain activity in the right area of the brain happens about 1.5 seconds before we make a decision, but I’m not completely convinced that means proof of determinism

@Roy I didn’t realise I said I was worried, no I don’t remember writing that, I’m not worried

@integral does it, ok I didn’t know that

@integral no bud, the question is about free will and not pessimism, it’s a major topic in the area of understanding the reality in which we are in, it might not be good news if we have no free will but I don’t only focus on rainbows and snowdrops

@WonderSeeker it certainly is a mind fuk, I think that the search for truth is a never ending one, but the more I do learn about reality the more lonely I feel and you do question your sanity from time to time, my real concern at the moment is our nature as human beings, there is alot of cruelty and selfishness and needless competition in us, ignorance seems to be a major factor Even with comments like on a discussion like this, it's a relief when I see that someone is kind, and genuinely wants to help or just have a discussion without any defensiveness or trying to make yourself sound great without any real honesty