TheAvatarState

I see a A LOT of comments and posts on every subforum bringing up no free will. And the Truth is that there's no free will... No one's in control! However, this brings up so much confusion and fear for many people. It doesn't make sense to bring it up in matters of relative, practical self help. Nonetheless, it is the Truth. How do we reconcile this? On one hand, we are all here to pursue Truth for Truth's sake, no matter the cost. But on the other hand, we're here to assist others in becoming their greatest versions, which inherently gives rise to matters of choice. Is it not helpful and hopeful, especially for beginners, to think of the world in terms of choices? I'm not really sure about this, so I was hoping to start a discussion on this topic.

Hahahaha I'm shook.

Even that is a concept that doesn't exist

@Merch instead, ask yourself what is existence?

It's fucking immature and unconscious. No other way to look at it, really.

@Serotoninluv very thorough, thank you! Would you say this trans-egoic experience of free will is like a trans-rational mode of being? In your experience, is this turquoise level of experiential free will illusory (relative) or absolute? Or does the answer not make any sense in this context?

I believe the notion of free will doesn't exist in either, is that what you're saying?

People who get it relatively quickly. It's just an estimate, I could be way off. Yes, we're all getting the message to wake up. It turns out that it doesn't get through most people's thick skull ahahahah. In fact, your level of spiritual development is not actually up to you... Now that's a hard pill to swallow

Yes, that's ok haha. Thanks for you responses ?

In the end yes, but that's not the same thing. There is no end, it would be inconceivable to think otherwise. No... I'm saying the opposite. The self-actualization I'm talking about is becoming a conscious person above all. And I'd say you can't be dumb and unconscious and doing what you love, because even if you got the profession right, it would be done in an unconscious way, which means some aspect of yourself would not be authentic. Deep investigations of my feelings and motives led me elsewhere. Some people are different.

Thank you, Ted-Ed, very cool.

@Conceptually-made That's not true for everyone. There are many people, including me, that feel like dying if all they amount to is a "good citizen." My self actualization need is stronger and more primal than my self esteem need. I've sacrificed a lot in the early stages to go down this path. If it doesn't work that way for you, great! But everyone is different, you can't make sweeping generalizations. Don't confuse the map (Maslow's pyramid) for the territory.

Oooo, I like it! It's a delicious strange loop when you realize you (a bubble in the sponge) are washing yourself with a sponge! At that moment, you will know God. You are the universe cleansing your pores with a model of the universe. The real kicker is when you realize Spongebob hasn't been the greatest cartoon ever because of its humor, it's because audiences subconsciously understand that Spongebob is God (who forgot he created the universe). Look at his childish nieveity, his innocence. His ability to see the best in people, his love of creativity. All in stark contrast with his opposite but complimentary manifestation, Squidward. Undoubtedly, it is these two characters that play off eachother and make the show what it is.

@Rilles What if soap is a little-known aspect of The Sponge to wash yourself of yourself?? ?

Likewise, I don't understand what you're saying either ???. Can we back up to the beginning? What is so different about a lucid dream than the waking dream?

@Rilles it's to prevent a rash when you go in deep

@Conceptually-made Like most psychological models, not everyone is going to fit into the box. It is my observation that most people on this forum got here because self-actualization is actually a base need for them. From my own experience, there is a drive in me for this stuff that's as primal as my need for food and water. I can't get away from it. I have this thirst for Truth that can't be extinguished, and despite my upbringing, social conditioning, and ego, this force is slowly sucking me further down the rabbit hole. I am completely miserable trying to lead a "normal" life with all my base needs met, because I've deconstructed the meaning of all of them, and realized there's really nothing to do in this world except self-actualize. Like Leo has said in one of his videos, if you're smart about this, there's really nothing else to do except become a fucking Yogi. Basically. Of course you can help the world with your life purpose in a practical way, but if you're not conscious about your impact, if you're not awake, then what's the fucking point??? Call me a freak, but that's the way I see it.

Not true, there are 100x more people that seek earnestly to no avail. What you said may be true from one perspective, but not many people are going to see it that clearly because there are so many traps.

I understand how it might feel different, but how could it possibly be different in actuality?

You have an ego in a lucid dream... But it actually is possible to convey that free will is a completely untenable notion. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, because it implies there is an output with no input. That simple. The ego is the only entity that thinks it has free will, because that's what gives it relevance and power. In light of nondual understanding, free will dissolves and so does the self... Which is your death. That's why this understanding is so touchy and problematic.

@Lynnel Thank you for not taking offense to my words. As I was reading over it again, it seemed kind of harsh lol. That's not the place I was coming from. Let me ask you a question: What must exist for there to be a problem?

@Tony 845 that's not what you said. Those are fringe cases. There are 100x more people that seek their whole lives and never attain "enlightenment."

@Robi Steel it's actually really interesting watching a video like this with the correct metaphysical lens. Because the actual science (observation) is good, it's the conclusions they come to which are incorrect. It's crystal clear how the materialist paradigm is informing their every move, keeping them locked out of truth.

@SoonHei this is a completely different thread with a completely different question. I'm asking how we reconcile this when talking with others at varying stages of development. It's a Truth that feels self-defeating when in the domain of practical self help advice. And yet, it is the ultimate liberating Truth, but only to those who fully understand it. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

Be really self-honest and make sure this confidence is not coming off as superior or like an asshole. Aside from that, that's all you can do. Accept that confidence will make weak people feel insecure around you. That's OK! That's a reflection of them, not you. It's not your job to make everyone around you feel good, otherwise you'd have to lower your self-esteem and confidence to the status quo. And despite what they may appear like, deep down they respect and admire your confidence, as long as you're not being an asshole.