jpcatrib

@TreeJeff I agree with your vision. I agree that people usually have a misconception about what libertarianism is. I do not know about the libertarian movement in the U.S., but here in Brazil, unfortunately, the movement is composed of many young Orange people who are often immature and end up being noisier. But my hope is that over the years, the movement will mature. I think both libertarians and socialists see the same problem: politicians being corrupted by large corporations. We only disagree on how to solve this problem. Libertarians do not like big companies that are responsible for many of the world's problems, they just believe that state regulation will not solve this problem but rather make it worse. I have thought a lot about it these days, and the "conclusion" I have come so far is that libertarianism is not fully framed in the Stage Orange, and every person has a perception on the subject. Just as a libertarian does not necessarily fit into the Stage Orange, a socialist may not fit into the Stage Green by defending the ideology for personal interests. In my case, for example, I work for the government, and here in Brazil, public employees make a lot of money (compared to the rest of the population), work very little, and can never be fired. That, over the years, has made me more and more angry. I think the orange vision would simply be to continue on the job and get on with life. But I'm feeling so bad about the situation that I decided to quit my job and do something that really makes a difference in the world. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but in my opinion, that's a greener view. Obviously, I am not denying that libertarians are often in the Stage Orange, as Leo pointed out to Ayn Rand, who preached selfishness as a virtue. Either way, let's keep an open mind and it would be good to hear different opinions.

I've just watched the Stage Orange episode. I live in Brazil and work for the government dor 5 years and identify myself as a libertarian since 2015. As far as Spiral Dynamics goes, of course, a great piece of me is still in Stage Orange. In the last 2 years that I have been following actualized.org, I consider that I have gone beyond the Stage Orange a little bit: I started to meditate; I have done some retreats; I started to recognize the limitations of rationality and science; I abandoned atheism and started to study spirituality and non-duality; I began to realize that money would not bring me happiness and then I need a purpose greater than myself. In this search for purpose I discovered a passion for the technology that drives bitcoin and I've been studying for months, trying to quit my government job to devote myself to it. For obvious reasons, this episode made me thoughtful. In addition, I am already putting into practice virtually all of Leo's recommendations to transcend Stage Orange, except, obviously, "recognizing the limitations of capitalism." I mean, in my view (I can not speak for all the libertarians), capitalism is not the way to solve all the problems in the world. I recognize that it really is responsible for causing various problems. But I think the State's way of solving problems is not valid. I do not think world problems can be solved through force or authority. Actually I think that state regulations simply make this problem worse, especially because people in power tend to be easily corruptible. For me, the State itself is a source of authority, which is closer to Stage Blue. Actually, I think the way to solve problems is by raising people's consciousness by making them ascend in the Spiral Dynamics stages, not by brute force. So, Is Bitcoin Really Stage Orange? • I don't understand exactly why Leo put bitcoin on this list, although obviously almost all of the users are predominantly Stage Orange. • I mean, in my understanding, there are ways to approach bitcoin like Stage Green: ○ I really believe that it is a way to help people without access to basic banking services have access to a global payment network, which does not require any type of credentials to enter, nor does it have any barriers. ○ It is a possibility for people to defend themselves against government-inflicted inflation, or even confiscation (in the history of Brazil, there are a lot of examples). • I recognize that the technology is at an extremely embryonic stage, so that there are several Ponzi schemes and pump and dumps, but I genuinely believe in the potential of technology to the point of wanting to make it my life purpose. Anyway, I don't want to make this post a political discussion, I just want to share my vision and really want to know other points of view, to discover possible blindspots of mine, specially at that moment that I am changing career. Also, I'll start reading the books that Leo indicated, to take the other point of view.