Freyah

I would recommend Donald Hoffman’s TED talk about ‘Do we see Reality as it really is’ ..... this really helped me to put some good chinks in the armor of my worldview.... (He doesn’t take it to the final Ultimate conclusion... because I’m not sure he’s seen it himself.. or at least hasn’t presented it like he has)

@Leo Gura Hi Leo, I read your blog thoughts on unconditional love. I really like the post, especially the final insight. ...Although I think you have missed the significance of parental love. Raising children can absolutely be a path to unconditional love. You say “Of course I will love a calm, smart, pretty child more than I will love a noisy, angry, ugly, crippled child....” Most parents will tell you that’s not the case. Unconditional love for your child hits you anyway. No matter how crippled or noisy they are. Life can never be the same after having a child as their wellbeing becomes more important than your own, no matter how they turn out. The times that you think your child is ‘calm, smart and pretty’ might be infrequent, although you still love them intensely. Even when they throw up everywhere, or have tantrums. Perhaps even when they get expelled from school or thrown in jail. In terms of unconditional love you say: “You'd have to really not care any more about living, dying, or enduring all sorts of hardship, suffering, and annoyance” Well, there are a great number of parents of seriously unwell children that would willingly trade their child’s suffering for their own lives if it would help (and the child doesn’t have to have certain ‘positive attributes’ for parents to feel like this)... And have you come across many parents of special needs kids? I worked in this field and most of those parents have become the most selfless people you would ever meet. Their kids can be noisy, difficult, angry, unable to look after themselves (and unlikely to in the future), yet the parents love them unconditionally and fiercely, and their own lives are very difficult because of it. (There are some stunning cases of selfless love out there.... it was a humbling job to meet these parents.) If their kids were more able and aesthetically pleasing, they still could not have been loved more. There are intense lessons to be learned in one’s interactions with our own children (and spouse) in mundane everyday life if we care to pay attention, (even in the piles of muddy Saturday sport laundry and chaotic kitchen) ....practicing and experiencing unconditional love can be one of them. And kids will make sure your ego gets chipped down, (and your heart opens) in the most challenging of ways, there is no doubt about it. Being a parent is a definite spiritual path if you want it to be, a challenging one, and an easily overlooked one..... And I thought maybe you had, in your comments, underestimated parental love. Just sayin’.....

@Inliytened1 honest answer is easy- I don’t know.... cant possibly say if I could.

@Inliytened1 ...An awful scenario, however the rest of your life would be wrecked if you couldn’t forgive them, and understand them... But you’ve misunderstood the main gist of the original post- that is Leo’s apparently misunderstanding of parental love. -It’s not about whether it’s love or not. Leo has indicated he thinks there are things a child can do to make you stop loving it. Alas, someone’s child has committed the atrocity you describe above....how do you think parent of that murderer/rapist copes?.....

@Leo Gura “Is a parent's love genuine love? Yes, but it is still quite narrow and conditional. There are many things your child can do which will make you stop loving it.” Leo, you be careful too. I think you have to admit to yourself you don’t know what you are talking about here. Your statement shows this.... entertain the possibility you don’t..... @outlandish has a great explanation in this thread and he says “It is like a Rewrite of your OS” that’s a great analogy. Much like being stuck in scientifically materialism (as you often mention) doesn’t allow you to understand to understand the deep shift of Knowing in spirituality (one type of OS rewrite); the same can be said for the consciousness shift in being a parent that makes you willing to die to save your child. If you say “oh that’s just survival” that is much like saying “oh that’s just neurotransmitters” when it comes to spiritual experiences. “And even if you love your child very much under all conditions. That's still such a narrow love. What about the other 1 billion children on this planet? Why don't you love them too?” It’s true I don’t/can’t- not in the same way. Although I love kids, there are only two I would willingly die for, it’s true....the ones I raised from young (DNA irrelevant here, they could have been adopted) Millions of mothers do this for the entire human race, and this collective group is the expression of Universal Infinite Selfless Love.... In the form of parents... whether they know it or not. It is impossibly for me to wipe a million asses even if I wanted to! Each ass-wipe is an act of selfless love...and thank goodness for the OS rewrite to make this happen unflinchingly and willingly @Preetom “So the distortion of unconditional love called ''parental love" is a specific filter or flavor. It is there as long as the ego is there. For the liberated, all such filters and flavors of love is seen through.” How do think a liberated parent acts? Do they give up all parental responsibilities because they now can’t choose who to devote their time and care to... ? Is it that they love all children (and every expression of consciousness) equally, so to care for *just one* aspect of it somehow shows a lack of love for everything else or is somehow egoic....? Believe me, if the ego remains intact in the early days of parenting... then is after an absolutely hiding in the future....everything you thought you were (good, kind, patient, cool, clever, successful, spiritual, deep, zen ) you will find you are not... (but it’s a good time, really! ) “The reason I say that things I say is because I am trying to point you towards discovering Absolute Love -- a thing which you have not yet discovered” Thanks for saying the things you say @Leo Gura ! Your hard work, and generosity in sharing is really inspiring and stimulating. Grateful.

@Leo Gura : "You might determine how much your husband loves you by the size quality and perfection of the diamond he gives you. And of course your husband will be judging you based on the perfection of your beauty so he will judge your body and your face and your boobs and everything...... and your personality and rank you on a scale on one to ten, and depending on where he ranks you, he'll give you a bigger diamond (chortle) and what will be missed is perfection as an absolute..... perfection with s capital P" ..... Jeez! Interesting Leo! I realise I've taken it of context but the fact you even use this very fickle example of a married couple in your latest video seems revealing. Spoken by man that has likely never fallen deeply in love with another and wanted to spend their life with them....?? This decision for most on marriage (Im intuitively guessing) is not based on lust or 'having lots of sex with a hot woman on a regular basis' but something much deeper and out of our control. I hope you have this experience Leo- or it's possible it's not your path, but it is for many others. A marriage is also a spiritual practice, as is raising children. Most people choosing marriage have looked past the physical and felt something transcendent with their connection to the other (whether they recognize it as such or not) There is much self development to be had in relationship with spouse and raising children. It changes you permanently.... and to make it work your heart has to be wide open. Of course this deep and spiritual aspect of mundane family life is usually over looked. There can be lots of suffering. And it can also be our path to wisdom. (Also those difficult relationships with parents that don't understand you are also part of our practice...) Just sayin'..... because you often talk of relationships with the opposite sex in shallow ways ('hot women'... 'getting lots of sex'... 'meeting hot woman in bars' .... pick up') and I haven't seen any evidence of you recognizing this divine part of relationships. How would you ever find a spiritual equal picking women up at a bar.....??! Rushing intimacy? When you have had this kind of connection you won't bother with bars, surely.... how unsatisfying. This comment relates to (my projection of) your projected YouTube persona. I've watched all your videos since mid 2016- they are awesome- extraordinary in fact. But .... deep connection within a relationship is also a way of opening the heart and accessing the divine, and it seems your talks and advice don't show any evidence of knowing this. Maybe this is a facet you've overlooked... ?

Hi, Was just listening to first bit of lastest Video @Leo Gura on Spiral Dynamics. Leo talks about Jordan Petersens crusade against too much 'green' in universities. I think it is the Extreme Green manifestations he is rallying against though.... the book Boomeritis by Ken Wilber explains this well. Anyone else read it and found it useful ....?

A virtual reality game/experience where you wear a body suit and glasses; then within the virtual world, your body sensations and movements are linked to entirely unrelated things; e.g., as you breathed in and out the walls would move like breathing; wiggling your fingers may move the clouds etc etc. complete body dissociation and becoming one with the visual field.... just a thought... i would try this if it was available....! is there something like that out there...??

Following on from @Leo Gura's latest SD video, and business "higher than orange", what are your thoughts on the yoga empire of Bikram Choudary..? What do you folks thing about this? Is this a method to chip into the mainstream and raise consciousness with a profitable business ...? I used to cringe a bit about how flashy he was (ignoring current allegations) but in this video he is asked 'have you created the McDonald of yoga?' And he likes that analogy- as it means of having his yoga widely available. Is this using a turquoise technology (yoga) and utilising Orange systems to get it out there? Frankly, I am grateful he did this, otherwise I may never have been able to access a class, and it's pretty wicked yoga... Also creates jobs as a yoga teachers... much better than flipping burgers. Although people may attend out of vanity, it is the foot in the door for potential development and change yes? What other higher-consciousness tool could be McDonaldzses in this way.....??

@phllip103 what's happening with the shaking? Your whole body trembling? I have had this experience too. It was most disconcerting and unexpected. And much more going on than just the body shaking, y'know what I'm sayin'? Yes, I thought meditation was meant to be calm also...but No... big physical and emotional releases can come about. You may be up for some changes....

The symptoms of kundalini, like some sort of 'spiritual puberty' have pretty much passed through- however I can still feel that energy if I direct my attention to it. I felt kinda special while it was all going on- it was rather exciting. Enlightened hehe no!! But I've stopped looking for what I was before...and this makes me happy! However, as you still find me on this forum, I'm still clearing stuff up for myself:)

@Tony 845 it will become clear to you what to do, so don't worry. Psychedelics became an area of interest to me after kundalini got going via meditation. And somehow the opportunity came up to try it.... the message I got from it was pretty clear... and it was not enlightenment ;D It seems there is an experience 'to have'- like kundalini experiences, and ayahuasca... that are definitely 'divine' sorts of inexplicable experiences... we recognize them as such.... I think this makes us search for 'who we are'. The answer to 'who we are' is a different, and more 'ordinary' insight; but still revelatory and satisfyingly clear when seen. So im sure the 'goddess kundalini' is in the process of changing your worldview, however that may be, just go with it..

@Leo Gura Sure. I'm pleased to have had that introduction to it. Thanks for your time in presenting that wealth of info.

I'd say red..

@Leo Gura yes, participating in that sort of battle would be tedious- but the site is not about that, it's more about the application and education of people about SD. Most people are on that page to learn more. You have a good way of expressing things with clarity. It'd be good. You'd help a bunch of others ready to learn more, that haven't come across Actualised. I gather the demographic is older on this page. Go on! Think about it at least... ? As you say, SD is such a useful model of understanding....

@Leo Gura I'm wondering if the book you are reading about yellow economics is "MEMEnomics: the next Generational Economic System" by Said Dawlabani.. There is a Facebook group, that is focussed on this model "the original Beck/Graves spiral dynamics" (I guess as opposed to Ken Wilburs take on it- they are quite anti-Ken within this group- the hard-core members anyway-) and Said is a regular contributor and seems to know Don Beck personally. There have been a few queries/comments regarding a video of yours someone posted- they were impressed with the number of views on a 2 hour vid on a topic like SD. There are some good thinkers on that page, why don't you contribute...?

@kieranperez im sure those videos have something worthwhile to share... I just tried, but Doshin Roshis delivery is... just.... so.... spiritually obsequeous I can barely listen through squirming. Uggh! I'll try again later....hopefully.

@HellspeedHahaha! "He did not transcend his glasses".... he transcended the world but, unfortunately, not his glasses! ? I would like to aim to transcend my -9.00D glasses! .... maybe the side effect of enlightenment will be a bonus. Opticians won't be happy about too much consciousness raising then...

Who here has experienced falling in love and/or heartbreak as a consciousness altering experience...? To me, there is something deeply spiritual about the whole event. Everything seems to take on a taint of divine meaning... music, poetry the beauty of nature.... unfortunately it doesn't seem to last at this intensity.... But maybe early awakening can be likened to this initial 'falling in love'.... and then after a while it settles into a stable, comfortable tolerant relationship with the divine...you kind of want that initial buzz, but you realize that what you have is far deeper and meaningful and don't want to turn your back on it. The everyday beauty of what we are. Just a sudden insight.... My guess is I'm probably double the age of most of you whipperschappers in the forum... I've had a good 15 years of marriage... and fallen in love three times, in my life.... and there is something momentous about those times though. One resulted in marriage, the other, 'kundalini awakening' and synchronicities and all sorts of attention grabbing stuff....that has ultimately driven me back to paying attention to the preciousness of everyday 'stuff' Possibly romantic love can be a path to discovering the divine... there is stuff to work with here.... Anyone else?

@pluto yes, thanks Pluto. But unconditional love is hardly a decision we can make and just go about it, can we? We are fortunate if we manage to do this. How wonderful it would be to just love like this! It seems we can't decide to live unconditionally any more than we can decide to fall in love with somebody. It is something out of our hands. Reading all about 'falling in love' in books and texts and online forums doesn't get us anywhere... (or perhaps people DO find love on forums, I don't know!?)...Even going 'out there in the real world' doesn't guarantee that it will happen.... it seems like a fortunate series of coincidences. Some are looking and find it, for others it happens unexpectedly. Much like the spiritual search. What do you think? Are you in this fortunate position of loving unconditionally?

@Hellspeed, thanks. You speak from any experience of this here? I'm talking of the romantic trigger here.... I have been astounded that spirituality/kundalini/sexuality are so interlinked.... but obviously the right combination of factors have to occur together to get it going.

@winternight thanks for reply.. perhaps I will look more into what Socrates said.... or perhaps I should get off this phone and pay attention to what is actually going on..:D Although... obviously romantic love is far from the catalyst for everyone, there are many different views, as you say, to the mysterious and transcendental. I've come across a concept of 'twin flames' ....a bit new-agey, but I can't find many other explanations for when this kundalini/self-search happens as a result of personal relationship. Come across this? Anyhow, I'm always pulled away from the Now when I investigate these topics...it's very enticing and distracting...

This is the title of a page on a Buddhist website I happened to look at. I know one of these guys interacting has been an academic Buddhist monk for 15+ years... https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=2972 Is this what happens when you get bogged down within religious texts, religious academic interpretations, but not actually really looking or finding for yourself? You leave it up to the religious text to give you the answer to Ultimate Truth.. ..? It seems that rather than go and actually experiencing it for yourself, you can end up debating definitions and Interpretations on an online forum... Is this a way of getting deeply stuck...? In the academic study of a religion..? When you see Truth surely you will be able to have your own words by way of pointing to it, without needing confirmation of what a sutta said, or confirmation by a religious lineage. No doubt it will be clear without someone else telling you it is. What are others experiences of this in religious settings... ?Is Buddhism worse than other religions for this as there is a large body of work to lose oneself in academically? @Preetom.....? @Leo Gura....?

@ground It felt like the debate on the Buddhist forum was going nowhere....that I thought it should:) lol. And I like Leo's and Preetoms way of expressing themselves. Perhaps because it 'resonates'....? But as for 'actuality' I'm learning I can't get closer to actuality than I am.... or escape from it. What do you think @Ground, about getting close to actuality....? Can we get any closer than we are?

@Preetom Thanks for your reply, you are an excellent communicator. Have you come across Douglas Harding...? No one seems to mention him too much. Is it that what he proposes is just too ridiculously simple? His are wordless teachings of headlessness... although he has written books- I find it miraculous (the simple experiments he proposes) to point out something so obvious, intimate and all consuming that the first time I saw it I said "Holy F@$k!" .... and I'm pretty darn satisfied with that discovery. For me it was a revelation. As you indicate, orgasmic-like mindblowing mystical experiences are one thing, but not IT....they fuel the search yes? (-and the search is necessary for anything to be satisfied from it I guess!) -but the experience doesn't last.....DH's teaching is another. It stays constantly with you once seen.... (the You that Is and Knows the entire universe !!) So, if you're self enquiring, and if you haven't tried this stuff, here's a link. What do you make of it?! https://youtu.be/DzPlkxMjiz8