metwinn

Yes I just worded it horribly perhaps because I'm tired.

In no way am I indentifying with my ego. However when I say anything to you it is always going to come from thought self and not self.

Yes I understand that now. But there is no other place that you can speak from other than ego. That isn't to say that you are ego of course

There is no thinker. Just thoughts happening

Yes

@robdl I don't understand

Now that you say that I don't think it is a semantics issue because it would have to be changed to undisputably the case for me.

Seeking psychological security needs someoene to define what seeking is and what it isn't defined as. It can't be objectively true that you are seeking something because each person has a different interpretation of how far you have to go before It could be considered seeking. It's a fact only to you. Facts can't exist only to you because the word fact usually points to an objective truth. The word you are looking for is belief. Understand what I mean?

You can't speak relatively about facts, that is your mistake. However I see where you are coming from we seem to just be tied up about the correct words.

Truth is unknowable yes, what you speak of as fact is merely belief. fact and truth are synonymous in my eyes. That which thought can touch upon are beliefs and viewpoints.

Could we possibly hear @Leo Gura thoughts on the matter?

The actuality you are trying to define is completely your subjective view on it which you are labeling a fact. Violence is not a fact because it needs you to decide what is violent and isnt violent. Its a belief. Truth lies in objectivity.

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj's book "I AM THAT" I promise you will change everything.

But you are the one deciding what is and is not voilent therefore you believe it to be voilent. Something cant be objectivlely voilent.

You didn't answer the question though did you. Your current understanding of freewill is a belief or is it not a belief. Your understanding.

I agree but the word fact needs to go I believe.

Of course it is. But thats not to say that the belief is not true, but only true to the one who believes it.

Define fact.

You were the one that first mentioned seeking security. You speak as if the facts exists somewhere over than in your mind. They too are just beliefs.

You too have expressed your beliefs no?

You entered this conversation one way or another from a particular belief that you expressed to everyone else on the forum so how can you say that you dont believe nor disbelieve anything to be true or false. You must have viewpoints.

But you must still hold a viewpoint on the matter. What do you believe to be the case. Whether it implies fear or not you must still have a view on the matter.

Is the original statement.

No one is addressing my point here you have both gone completely off topic. Faceless said belief comes from fear and I said not all beliefs come from fear or security.