Sockrattes

@Serotoninluv (Orange) Science is based on replicability and falsifiability. Does that apply to emotions as well?

Social and economically: Orange Politically: Yellow (the emergence of modern representative democracies)

I always thought that maya came out of Atman and therefore it is our goal to get rid of it. But during my research i came across this table (translated it from german to english) and was wondering, if my assumption was even valid. According to Frithjof Schuon, Brahman Nirguana and Brahman Saguna are both the absolute and uncreated. Which means in essence Atman and Maya are both default states of our consciousness and our reality. This is a total contradiction to the assumption that our world is a game, isn't it? In my experience, samsara is hell. But i'm also convinced, that i was "born" into it, not thrown into it as part of a game. In your direct experience, do you think there is truth to that?

@Leo Gura Fundamentally you are right. But do we need to talk about thermodynamics whenever we talk about fertilization? Physics, chemistry and biology are fundamentally the same process. But we can still distinguish these three disciplines from each other because we have defined them as such. The same applies to god or the absolute. There is only one truth. But it has an infinite number of facets.

@Nahm Thanks Bro

@Nahm Well Dude... that was beautiful. Thank you. But what does "inquiry" even mean. Due to the lack of my english skills, i can't fully grasp, what you guys are specifically talking about when you use that term. My translators aren't very helpful.

@Shin Not all heroes wear capes.^^ @Nahm Thanks. I recently came up with this author-character-analogy myself. But after a few days, i've realised, how i've constructed this concept without even knowing it. So at this point i'm not sure anymore if it's was an insight or a concept. And there is this whole question about determinism and free will, which puts some extra weight onto that topic. Sometime it feels like, i have free will, and at other times, i can literally watch myself, walking and talking, without doing anything myself. Like i am sitting in a theatre or something. But i only get to that point, when i meditate or smoke weed. So... the fundamental question here is: Am i even free to decide, if i want to meditate to get this theatre-experience, or is this determined as well? Is there something in between determinism and free will? Is reality a mixture of both?

@Shin Fair enough. Thank you. I've obviously misinterpreted your comments a bit. Sorry for that. @all: My question is still unanswered: Why no tentacle-hands at will? It would be cool, if someone tried to answer this.^^

@Shin You are judging others, even if you don't know them: "I hope the mental masturbators in here understood this episode ? Otherwise you're so fucked ?" You claim to have figured everything out. And you are looking down on other people. So why should i take seriously what you are saying? Why should i take something seriously, what you are obviously supporting (Leos Video)? I'm not saying you are wrong. I don't know that. I'm just trying to check, if there is truth in anything you are saying. So if you could answer those questions i have asked in my last post, you could raise you credibility.

@Shin I'm not here to judge, but i have to tell you, that this forum is becoming a egoistic circlejerk. Every day a bit more. It is just sad to witness. Have you considered, that your enlightenment experience might be just a psychological phenomena, which resulted from those various concepts, you've already had in you mind? Ask yourself. Is it possible that all of these various concepts you had, just connected reasonably together, when you had your "enlightenment"? It is proven that meditation and contemplation have this effect. Quote: "Neuronal plasticity refers to the ability of synapses, nerve cells or entire brain areas to change in their anatomy and function depending on use in order to optimise ongoing processes." The more i think about it, the more it makes sense to me: The pantheistic worldview, Leo is talking about in his new video, isn't something new. It always was a concept, in epistemology (e.g. Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel) and mysticism (e.g. Giordano Bruno). But non-dual teachings in Hinduism or at least those written in the Upanishads were fighting about wether reality is monotheistic, pantheistic or even panentheistic. They aren't sure about that. Do you claim to know what is real? Buddha said, there is no god. Or at least no personal god. Various Advaita Vedanta teachers (e.g.Frithjof Schuon) are saying, there is a personal god. Do you have the definite answer to that question? Is it possible, that enlightenment does have different stages and lines to it? Just keep in mind: When you were really fully enlightened, you were basically the one true god, who is immanent and transcendent at the same time. You could transform your hand into a tentacle whenever you want. So i would like to ask you: Why don't you do that? Having an insight to something and actually making use of that knowledge are two entirely different thinks. And if those enlightened people around here would stay humble from time to time, we could sort that out.

No i'm not. I'm not trying to get to the root of non-duality here. You should stop judging and postponing my desire for knowledge on the basis of your experience with others. That does not suit you and it undermines what else you have to say. I'm asking because, i want to understand, how creation is functioning in its details and how to navigate within it. I'm not asking what creation or god is. Ask yourself: Do you know, what i'm thinking right now in this moment? If not, then there is a certain kind of distinction between you and me, even if non-duality is the root of all this. This means even if both of us, have the same source, we are still functioning independently. The question here is: Why?

"Don't get the wrong idea. I don't mean that you're gonna looking at this hand and all of the sudden it will turn into a tentacle. That's not what i mean." Serious question: Why can't you do this?

@Nahm Thank you. I would love to tell you what they've asked me, but i can't. It's a heavy burden i have to carry and it's crushing me. But they've told me, it would be better not to talk about this. Honestly i wouldn't even know how to explain this. At this moment, i'm not confident enough to talk about this. But i would like warn you: When you are experiencing those elves, double-triple-octuple-check everything they are saying. It took me a long time to realise, that there are "two opposing groups" of these entities. They are basically indistinguishable. That's really challenging. But to be fair: It's possible, that they are only pretending to be two conflicting groups. But check it for yourself. And be prepared: Some of those entities have an infinitely loving and caring warmth in their eyes. When i first saw that, i instantly wanted to be like that. I know... probably it's my ego speaking here. But once i have seen this, i couldn't stop thinking about that. It's overwhelming. Honestly i can't believe, that i'm writing all this. Compared to this, that Scientology-Xenu-Stuff sounds at least a bit believable. I know that. I guess this is partially the reason no-one believes me. EDIT: This i a german video about a near death experience. Use english subtitles:

Just FYI Here is another Video, you should watch: That guy is experiencing what gnosticism is teaching. Literally. At least a few schools. The story goes like this: First there was (conscious) nothing. Then out of nothing, there was light, which was also conscious. Because the nothing didn't know better or had nothing else to do i guess, it started to expand itself inside the light and tried to rip it apart. And in this process, it formed this reality. So essentially that means, that there are two. Ask yourself: Is this guy lying? Hallucinating? Do you know for sure, that what he's experiencing is false? My advice is, take this guy seriously. He knows what he's talking about.

@Outer That was a nice way of saying, that i'm lying or hallucinating. But don't worry. I'm not easily offended.^^ I don't doubt that. What i'm saying is, that there is more than one consciousness. Those entities literally said to me, that there are billions billions billions... of others. Well.. Atman and Brahman are fundamentally the same. I know. I get that. I wouldn't even start to doubt that. The hatchling inside an egg, is convinced of him being alone too. What i'm saying is something different. Since many of you are spiritually awakened, i would like to ask you, to experience it for yourself wether your convictions might be false. Take a really high dose of Marihuana and ask for god. Maybe he will answer. I really hope that, because it seems like, there are only a few who are experiencing what i do. I know, this sound like deluded-maya-i-know-better-than-everyone-else stuff, what i'm talking about, but you should take seriously what i'm saying. You don't know me. So it is fair and reasonable, that you can't take seriously what i'm talking about. You haven't experienced it. I won't judge. I'm just saying, that there is something else you can discover, if you are willing to do that. Leo said, that i'm not fully awakened yet, so everything i say must be false by default. This is the kind of argument, a scientific person would say to a religious person, no?! Before the scientific revolution everyone KNEW that illnesses are cured only when god want it to be cured. Scientist und physicians came up with solutions to cure them and everyone knew, that god doesn't exist. Many of them KNEW there is no god. How else could it be?Now spiritual people hold the same structure of argumentation against scientific people. And it seems like nondualism is becoming the biggest, because most convincing belief-system, which is holding us back. I'm not saying that non-dualism is false. I honestly don't know. What i'm saying is, that experiencing non-dualism isn't all there is. When i take everything into account, what i have experienced, then there is no doubt for me, that there is something beyond what you call the absolut. Something of more value. Stay open-minded and don't judge my state of awareness just by comparing to your own. This could be next-level-maya.

Ok. Let me ask you this way: Do you think, this white light and those Entities are real? And if yes, what is it? How does they fit into oneness and the absolute?

Thank you for trying, but i already made this. I'm familiar with Advaita Vedanta and Ramana Maharshi now. So thinking this trough, is led me to the answers i'm looking for. @ajasatya Well, you don't know what "i" went trough.^^ I know, you guys are convinced, that once one had this direct experience of oneness, suffering isn't possible anymore. But let me tell you, that's not true. Those "Elves" told me, that reality is in fact infinitely more complex, than i could ever conceptualise. Even if i don't like it, i think David R. Hawkins' Consciousness Scale is pointing in the right direction here. I don't like this scale, because i think, the notion, that consciousness can be quantified, is a bit silly. Nevertheless Hawkins said, that "the absolut" has a level of 1000. And he goes on and says, that God, Jesus, the holy spirit and the archangels are even beyond that. And that's the essence what i'm talking about. These Entities said, that we have to work together to find that out. For me it was like this: Scientific person for my while life. Einsteins relativity and quantum physics were the keystone of reality. Then this white light hit me, and i realised for the first time in my life, that science is a belief-system on its own and spirituality, oneness and the absolut are the essence of reality. But the longer i think about it, the longer i working on this topic, the deeper i go into these "alternative realms", the more i realise, that both spirituality and science are 2 keys for a door, which has 3 locks on it. The absolut seems like a belief-system on its own. At least, when i take me experiences, thats the conclusion i must have. I don't claim to have the answer to any of these questions. I'm just saying that "the absolute" might be a trick to keep us trapped in whatever this is. And to find that out, we need a scientific spirituality that remains humble and always takes our ignorance as a basis.

@Outer Freedom, redemption and salvation. I'm actually sick of this realm of reality. @Nahm I've experienced them first. Then i've googled for them for a long time and only then i've learned about them through Youtubevideos and so on. I wasn't a very spiritual person. Actually i didn't feel the need to think about this stuff until 2 years ago, when depression and anxiety kicked in and i lost control of everything in my life. Today i'm not even sure, if i ever was in control, but thats another topic.^^ I will outline the beginning of this whole story briefly: One and a half years ago, i was extremely depressed. Lost my job, lost my girlfriend, had to quit university, had no money and on top, i was basically homeless. I've started to taking drugs, just for the feel good experience. And one time, i was on marihuana, i felt into this deep deep paranoia and anxiety. I felt like i was dying and I was literally screaming inside me, stuff like "WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE? WHAT IS THIS SHIT?" and so on. Anyway... this went on for a few minutes, and then all of a sudden a white light occurred. I instantly felt nurtured and loved. Like everything was ok and there is nothing to worry about anymore. My first thought was "Yay... i have psychosis now." But somehow i knew, it was different and it was a long forgotten friend or something. But after a few seconds i managed to speak to that white light. It asked me "What can i do for you?". And because i was lost, i somehow naturally asked for a few things. Things i'm missing in my life. Then it asked me if i wanted to die. I was a bit shocked, but then i said "well.. uuhm.. not necessarily.. lol". Then he asked me something, which is "haunting" me since then. I can't say what it was, because i don't know what it means and wether if it was a gift or a curse, if any of these things does even exist. Anyway. Days goes by, a few incidents following this conversation happened, which dragged me even more into pain and suffering. One and a half years now, and i haven't progressed the slightest. And ever since, these "machine-elves-entities" appear to me like every night, and trying to help me. At least i think they are trying to help me. It seems like those Entities are employees from that white light or something. The first few times, i have asked them many many questions, and they hesitated to answer them. I've literally asked them "are you god(s)?". They said no. I've kept asking them for a few weeks, and then they said, that they are somehow "my lawyers". Well... don't know what that means, and i've almost stopped thinking about this. Well you could argue, this is just psychosis or wishful thinking, because God himself was trying to help me or something. I have absolutely no proof for what happened. It is up to you wether you believe me or not. I've told this story many times to many people, but no-one believes me. Hell i wouldn't believe it myself, if it didn't happened to me. So anyway, i'm trying to understand what is going on here. The problem is, that no concept i cobble together or insight i have, seems to fit the narrativ, that there is only the absolute, and once you are in that void, you will realise that. There is something beyond that. And i don't know what. EDIT: Non-duality does seem to fit in a certain way. I think i've opened another thread about this. In one of those "dreams" i've seen the image of Ramana Marashi, while a voice was trying to distract me from this. The voice said "Kim Jong ill! Mahatma Ghandi!... and a few other names. At that time i didn't know who that guy from that picture was, so it took me a while to find that out. A few days later in another dream an old white guy sat in front of me and said "Advaita Vedanta! Advaita Vedanta! Advaita Vedanta!" So... there i would say, there is certain truth in non-duality. But i'm quite sure, there is even more. That's actually the whole reason why i opened this thread.

@Leo Gura How sure are you about that? I mean, have you experienced them yourself? The funny thing is, that i have first experienced them on marihuana. Then on LSD and psylocibin. And my void-experience was on 4-AcO-DMT. So no N,N-DMT yet. They are literally coming every night, and dragging me into really strange but extremely interesting experiences, like lucid-dreams, astral-projections and so on. I even have massive synchronicities, insights into it think "past lives" and other really heavy reality altering experiences. There is one thing, which they told me, is somehow "my mission to pass on" or something. This part is sticking with me ever since: "Do you (everyone) want to live forever or not? That's actually the only question that really matters." What they've told me too is, that i could lift a finger if they didn't wanted it. And they proved it to me occasionally. So i think, what i wanted to say is: Those entities are far beyond from being 'silly'. They are actually quite intelligent and extremely conscious and i would say sentient. They are foreshadowing things, like they would see time all at once and so on. In fact, they are extremely powerful and at times way beyond my imagination. This dude here is talking about them as well. And this is the level of experiences i have regularly even without taking any drugs.

@How to be wise Thank you for this video. I don't know why, but it feels a bit cringe-worthy to me. Maybe it's because it feels like Ralston is trying to protect his spiritualised ego or something. Or maybe Leo asked him a question, which caught him off-guard, so he tried to stay in his role at all cost. What Ralston is missing here, is actually quite obvious. Infinity has at least two definitions: Pi or the Archimedes' constant is infinite. 3.1415926... and so on. It goes on forever. But that doesn't necessarily mean, that Pi is therefore everything there is, right?! In this context what is 3.2 then? More infinite? For me it feels like, there is someone desperately waiting for us. Why do you think that? Do you have thoughts on this, you would like to share? Again, sorry for my english. In german i could tell more specific about the insights i had.

@Taylor04 "Green want's more taxes" This is everything i need to know to realise, that your view on green is still an orange one. You haven't even integrated green yet. Therefore you shouldn't try to chatter up orange-rothbardian-ideology the spiral ladder. This won't work, because for everyone who is or was at least in green, this is obvious.

What does it mean? When he don't identify with his body anymore, how can there be suffering? Isn't it like watching a movie or somethig?

I don't know what Gödel's theorem is, but according to Immanuel Kant, mathematics IS metaphysics. How else could it be? Can you touch it? Kants epistomology says in his book critic of pure reason, that mathematics is basically the only synthetic judgment a priori. Which means, that mathematics is the only metaphysics we can be certain of. Even more than that. It is the only thing we can be certain of whatsoever. So every maths has metaphysical implications by default. Also science in general is not about usefulness, but falsifiability. While this guy has some points, which needs to be discussed, most of it is just utter rambling about things, he doesn't understand.

And if yes, are we willingly in this cycle? What is the meaning of all this? Is it just a game? Hope to hear your opinions.

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