Javfly33

Recently I started a physical labor job and I have been using Kratom to put in the hours (I had a Kratom habit before hand, but I definitely switch it from being a dumb habit to at least a useful one because now it helps me to do the work until I find my career desired job) After watching Leo's last video about his health issues I thought about opening this thread to discuss the applications of Kratom for energy and stamina, especially for productive/work purposes In my experience using it for physical work,(8 hours a day) I've found is the best substance I've found regarding safety/effectiveness. Yes, you do become dependent on it if you use it for energy. But so do you with coffee. In my case I decided to switch to Kratom because I found coffee didn't help that much physical energy, but rather mental stimulation. Also, with Kratom I have seen it doesn't impact my mood or anxiety the rest of the day, whereas with coffee the "after effects" or "crash" feels more taxing on the mind. Also, something just tells me that while Kratom does make you dependent to have energy as coffee does, it doesn't make the body as "dependent" on it as coffee. I say this because when I used to take coffee, when I got up in the morning I felt absolutely fatigued until I had my first coffee. With Kratom this doesn't happens. Yes, I have the habit of using it for energy so of course I make sure to not forget to take some to work BUT if I can't take it until it passes two hours, I am not so fatigued as I would be when I needed that coffee, basically I am still funtional. I am not chemist, but this tells me that while Kratom does gives you energy it doesn't prevent the body to create it's own "energy chemicals" as coffee does, making your body significantly less dependent if by any chance some day you can't take it. Well. That's my take on it. I probably have to update in some months if everything stay the same, but I don't see why not. I've been using Kratom as a substitute for coffee for months already and I haven't up the dose a bit, so things should the stay the same.

Damn you kidding!? 4 years and still works?

@LfcCharlie4 Kraatje.eu They ship from Netherlands next day delivery. I'm not sure if they ship to UK thought, you'll have to check.

See I couldn't do that. Anything more than 3gr I'll get maniac and nauseous. You do have a point. I mean if I could get a buzz just "dosing more" I would be VERY addictive to Kratom. But fortunately the drug doesn't work for me that way. And it hasn't changed in the last 2 years (it has gotten more difficult to catch a recreational effect, to the point that as I said I use it now for work and when I dose I literally dose the less I can for energy not looking for anything else). Anyway congrats man for your detox. I know some close people were addictive to H and I know it's a dark, dark place to be in. You got it!!!

@The0Self Yes, I'm not denying the recreational effects of Kratom. It does have an opioid feeling effect if you can get the buzz. But as I said, the question is can you get the buzz ? With heroin and straight opioids you can get the buzz if you have money to take/smoke enough (even if you got tolerance) (correct me if I'm wrong). With Kratom, the fact of having 100gr in front of me doesn't give that much because I know that I won't get a recreational, craving, buzz unless I dose once or two a week. @The0Self I agree it is addictive. But I also think it has some good uses for things as physical labor. In my opinion yes IT is addictive and it can be recreational, BUT I haven't found it is "dangerously" addictive. Can it be dangerously addictive since it is a "sneak peek" of the opioid feeling so you might end up "taking a look" at harder drugs? Maybe. But again not everybody might do that. Is the same as cocaine, Cocaine it's very addictive but not nearly most people that had used cocaine has gotten addictive and a daily habit to it.

@The0Self But of course I'll be sure to make tolerance breaks regularly to check how dependent my body is in it. All I can say is that after two years using it sparely and last year daily, if I quit it in 4 days I am at normal energy levels. Maybe after 4 years using it it would take me 10-12 days? Coffee took me 25 days to be normal again, so that's what I'm saying I don't see such a difference, unless by some sort of genetic thing you are able to get euphoric effects using it daily! Then some nasty WD will happen. Dosing daily I don't get euphoria or anything like that, just a stimulation that I like way more than coffee. But I'm sure if I would dose to pursue euphoria and recreation, then I would get bad WD

I agree, but what I'm seeing is that problems comes with those who can do those doses. I love Kratom but I can't raise the dose because it just doesn't work or gives me negative effects This is the first dose in grams I did two years ago when I first started using Kratom : 2grams This is what I do nowadays: 2grams In between this two years I have raised to 3grams, but found that 2grams were my sweet spot. I m sure if i could do 15 grams with the same effects, I would get bad WD, but the fact is I CAN'T because I get bad negative effects and nausea. So the way that tolerance works for my body and a lot of bodies makes Kratom pretty safe (so far, maybe I'll be wrong? But why it would get bad after two years using it?). However in those you guys that because of genetics or who knows can get good effects dosing and dosing more, then you guys get bad WD Correct me if I'm wrong in my theory but I think it's what is really happening here.

People always use the fact that Kratom helps very good with opioid WD as a scare tactic in to why Kratom must be bad too or dangerous too in the same level. It just not correct, it's not rational. I have been using Kratom daily for months, I have stopped, and the WD are a joke compared to any serious drug. The WD were not more difficult than those of coffee (actually those from coffee were worse, but I atributte it to the fact that I had been using coffee for years, not months). You guys will have to come up with serious scientific research (or even anecdotical, but the thing is anecdotical is full of experiences as mine, although I'll give you that also there are anecdotical evidence too of bad WD, but that is most of the times because of reckless dosing). Again, I have taken Kratom twice or even sometimes three times a day, for more than 4-5months straight. Stopped, had lighter WD than those from coffee . The plant due to natural tolerance can't be really abused. People that have Serious WD is because they really must be getting some kind of artificial extract that is artificially potentiated, or either they were previous opioid addicts and Kratom makes them a re-live an opioid WD (that's just my theory thought )

Wtf!!!! How is that even possible!!

are you finally in "home, sweet home" @James123 ?

Notice that "was" feels very real and very different from IS. Yet "was", "past", and "very real feeling of past" happen Now. Are you sure something as the "past" exist? Have you ever experienced something as the "past" or is an idea that always have happened Now?

@cnfvm The notion of past happens always here and Now. What does that tell us about "the past", since even the imagination of it happens here and Now?

That´s basically it. This is not "your life". This is a dream of consciousness and "your life" is just thoughts forming the Ego therefore forming the illusion of "somebody" being Alive inside the body. So how do you accept, as the ego, that you do not exist? Its a bitter pill. (I am not saying it´s Bad, I´m saying it seems a pill tough to swallow)

That´s actually a good point. I guess the illusion hasn´t totally "seen through" yet @VeganAwake

@VeganAwake It doesn´t exist, but thoughts re-create the illusion. So even if Awakenings happen, if thoughts of identity re-appear that are believed in, then "the sense of self" re-appear (even if doesn´t exist, they are just thoughts I totally agree with you)

@ajasatya Nobody, of course. Thank God I´m just an illusion @Nahm Buuut if there´s no ego, there´s no game left to play

In my city recently a Coronavirus outbreak happened and now everybody is mandatory to wear face mask in the street, with the exception of clubs and bars I have the opinion that yes, you can totally do pick up with a mask. Women are not that attracted to looks but rather to personality, so a face mask shouldn't be such of a handicap. But I'm no expert in social dinamics so that's why I ask

Hahahah. God is a mad man creator

Ketamine is not the best drug to do in a regular manner, it can be both neuro and physically toxic, although they are definitely worse things out there. Keep it occasional, if you start notice you're using regularly to get results meditating cut it off. It's safe use is for occasional trips like psychedelics.

They say Enlightement ends suffering and that's why most people pursuit. But Enlightement also means you die. The present moment stays, you die. So you really don't gain anything. You might trascend suffering but in exchange you completely die, I am starting to think it's not such a great deal. You have to surrender your will, your desires, your selfishness, your identity, your stories, and your lies, your petty pleasures. And in exchange I'll get absolutely nothing. Just being The Present Moment.

@LfcCharlie4 Yes, I do. But I resorted to Spirituality because basic self help didn't work. I will read some more books in a serious manner , in that sense thanks good advice. Diet is great. Social life none, but this it's because it's related with my anxiety. I call it anxiety to call it something. It just is a deep sense of unworthiness that no matter how much I get better it seems its still there and "resucitates". My only hope was/is Psychedelics but I can't fucking make myself to take Enough so they could actually heal me.

I've done. And for sure I contemplate visiting another. But my problem is deep, it doesn't get solved with some therapy.

What can you do? When I mean detaching I mean accepting, not evading. I mean there's no evasion anymore but I can't seem to be able to solve them. In the last 6 years I have done signficant work but the root problem is still there. So I'm basically out of solutions or ideas .

@dimitri Man I don't know. I completely understand where your coming from. My life problems are an ILLUSION. Yet my anxiety and overall root problem (imaginary and maintained by believing myself I am an identity/ ego, I know) is still in my life 6 years later. I mean I could say life is getting better but today I had some suicide thoughts. I wouldn't consider I am in a very bad place in life, because I have SOME wisdow that I am not really the one who is suffering (I can detach myself from it still() but honestly my ego/avatar is not all right. So I am feeling in anytime it can "explode". I don't how., I hope is for the good. I could use some "relative* advice in regards to the avatar.

I am not sure what the fuck is going on lately . Can't handle my life anymore so I take refuge in the present moment. Seems my fuck up life is forcing to surrender myself finally. I hope I am done soon or maybe do Bufo alvarius in the Mountains soon if I make it alive to the last week of july