Victor Mgazi

The problem with the truth is that it will forever be subjective and with that being said, it will all ways be a matter of perception or exist as a belief. Truth implies meaning so therefore it's not absolute and that means it will always be dependent on the perciever. Experience however is experience, from my perspective it is neither direct or indirect and everything it offers will be perception literally .

@Faceless pinning it down is very tricky for me but it has come to my awareness that every thought I experience brings about a sense of self so to me the ego is really just a series of thought self. One has many identities with in himself /herself and there's always a change. Self Identification of thoughts is just one of its functions I guess. This may of course be a neurological thing instead of just psychological because the brain is just the sum of a large number of brain cells and they could all have egos of their own hence there's always a communication (which I like to call the voices) going in the head and the identification of thoughts to produce "will power" so there entire system can function as a whole. Although I'm still operating in this thought-self paradigm, so many things have been popping up in my awareness that has made my life so easier and a lot more fearless. I just seem to be opening up to things much more, both the good and the bad. I'm opening up to everything more and I'm liking it! I understand the nature of pain (all kinds of them) and why it's necessary. I view myself more like a machine now and I'm studying myself as an interesting subject, being blown away by the mechanics at work here it's just so intriguing. Not long ago I had no clue that my heart was like a brain on it's own and now I'm even making use of its intelligence. I mean did you know that your heart is sending more messages to the brain than it's receiving them. And I'm actually aware of that now it's no longer just a theory to me. There's just so much intelligence out here, it's feels to good to be true and learning to love is the best thing happening in my life right now, it's just beautiful. @Zweistein don't beat yourself down if you act unconsciously here and again because this is just a dream after all and we can't be lucid dreaming through out the entire experience, us being consumed by the story is part of the experience and love cannot reject that experience because it's simply a part of it. Instead just turn back and laugh at how it got you again and be aware of the intelligence behind that. Your enlightenment is already inevitable so there's no need to go hard on yourself. If you can stare at your reflection in the mirror and see that there's not really a you there, just the universe's machine observing itself then that would be great because you will begin to see that you and the universe are just one and the same thing - a movement in time. You are the universe commucating with us (the universe). And this event is of intelligence. I promise it is an awesome experience, kinda like realizing in a dream that everybody there is you and are happening in your head. It's truly amazing, I'm not even sure if I'm describing it effective enough because everything I'm saying here is just of great significance and just talking about it is making my eyes teary. It's honestly beautiful. Let me stop and take a break before I actually cry .

Wow, thanks for sharing guys. This has really opened my mind. I'm truly grateful.

I assume that all experience is subjective because meaning only exists in duality right?

@Leo Gura are you saying it's objective in nature? And if so...how can it be experienced.

Humanity has not yet comprehended its psychology, it is like a child in a sense (relatively speaking) and as children we tend to be driven by impulse and intuition (the so called gut feeling). The ego is all about self preservation and well being. Fulfilling the biological needs, neurological necessities and psychological wants is its prime interests. The pleasant experience you would have around that guy is a psychological phenomenon based on the ego's nature. It's all about pleasure and pain in the end game. hope this makes sense for you

What about compassion, I don't see how this could be a fear based phenomenon. Could this be self deception fulfilling some psychological need?

That makes sense. So it's by any means necessary huh.

I have noted that self deception and justification can have a connection. But why would the ego need to deceive itself, what does this have to do with the self image?

So is love an emergent phenomenon or is it infinitely present and why? If it's constantly there then why aren't we tapping into to it? Shouldn't it be easy for something that is always there...

What about a mother's love, how could that have anything to do with the ego?

I do believe that love exists but then if it's not a product of the mind then what's it's nature (gives rise to it)?

@robdl wow, this really gets to me. I mean where does this leave unconditional love (which I believe is true love)? Does it even exist in society and most importantly family? I don't see how love and fear can ever co-exist so what does that say about unconditional love or is that too self deception?

Are all actions (including motives) in essence based on fear as a result of the ego? And why... I ask because after some serious self reflection I have not yet discovered actions or intentions that aren't derived by fear, regardless of whether direct or indirect fear.

People have described the awakening as an ego death. I'm just curious, wouldn't this lead to the death of the body since it's (ego) nature is for self preservation or well being?

@Victor Mgazi @robdl this is one of the ego's tricks. Investigating and seeing, these words both suggest action, which then requires a doer. Hence this would be a movement of thought.

@Faceless don't you believe in anything? I mean don't take this in a wrong way but it just seems like your entire life is based on one mind set - the movement of thought. Don't you think there is a reality that can be communicated? If the absolute has infinite intelligence then couldn't the universe learn the truth (that is, what exists)? Think about it.

@Faceless so would you say enlightenment is also a movement in thought since it is yet to be attained? And if so then is it not inevitable? @Nahm well that's just the thing, the whom is just the universe asking itself since there's no person here. Me commucating with you is just one incredible phenomenon that is inevitable and perfectly infinite. Really it's a thing of beauty this experience, I just wish there wasn't so much mystery here.

To be sure - it would be best to get an answer from him.

Sorry, I meant if it's not trouble.

Really? Do you mind stating a few (useful models), that would be great.

@Nahm I don't know what you mean. This is a complete mystery for me too. Should I not be asking this question? I would really appreciate an answer to it if it's trouble.

@Joseph Maynor to be honest, I don't really understand this notion that something has to be complicated for it to develop an ego. I mean isn't complexity and simplicity something that is relative. What if there is like an extraterrestrial that is so smart that it doesn't regard for instance a human to be that complex. Just open yourself to that possibility for the sake of this analysis. Should really depend on something subjective in order for this phenomenon to emerge?

Since me and you don't actually exist then is there really a seeking going on since seeking suggests a seeker and if not then what exactly is being enlightened? The ego?

Consciousness and ego are definitely separate things, one is a perception and the other is nothing. Vision is a perception and so are thoughts but they aren't yours in the way that you assume. You are not experiencing these senses because even you are being experienced. This sense of self is an experience. The ego is also a perception like sensory information but this is of thought. Let me know if it's unclear.