LordFall

Not implicitly but fundamentally yes they are. You are choosing to invest your time with someone and their actions throughout the relationship will dictate if you will stay in it or not. It shouldn't be a continuous frame battle and a healthy relationship has baked in alignment with personality, communication and goals but it remains a transactional arrangement at the end of the day. You put in yourself and they put themselves and when problems occur you try to fix them and if there are irreconcilable disagreements you cancel the transaction and each party goes their own way. It's great to romanticize it and I love love but that's what it is. You are right that you can use the walking away in toxic ways and ideally you should talk about it and understand the other's position and try to accommodate it if you want to. At the end of the day it's still the same mechanism though the more desperate and needy you are the more you will compromise on your wants and needs for fear of losing the other and the more in abundance you are the more you will be willing to walk away and find other partner that are more aligned with you.

1) You accused me of replying quickly and thus not deeply checking what I say or what AI responds to me. I think that's a false assumption and if you can point out how that lead to me saying something false then feel free. 2) I don't think I'm falling pray to recency bias. Elaborate. 3) I take guardrail and AI bias into account. I ask questions in a way that gives me info I can cross reference if it sounds off. I do it all the time since it does hallucinate at times.

Feel free to point out if I fell into a trap and said something false. I have studied polyamory and it's part of my ideal lifestyle so I find it disappointing when people attack it with lazy points like @Jirh did. I reply quickly because I get intellectually stimulated by engaging conversations and put a lot of thought into my arguments. I don't think I've made any lazy points on my whole time on this forum, it's against my identity and life philosophy. I could totally be bias and welcome being proved wrong.

You seem to have a picture of pickup in your head that's more like a caricature and stereotype of it than what it really is about. You're looking at it in a very shallow way. Abundance is deeply rooted in human psychology. Walking away from a negotiation works against all kinds of humans insecure or not because it's not fundamentally a technique. It's an honest signal which is biology not pop culture PUA stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_theory An honest signal is a behaviour that is hard to fake because it requires. characteristics that are hard to acquire i.e. abundance in this context. Abundance is not a technique. If you 20 apples and someone threatens to steal your apple and you say ok bro that's not a technique that's you having a lot of apples so you don't care if you lose one. It's a reality you first experience as a mindset/paradigm and then actualize in real life.

lol Natasha is gonna roast me for this one I wanted to use Gemini to my own meme where its a women screaming at a dude to do the dishes and he says yes honey but the sink is already empty but I ran out of tokens

Sure I guess the definition of manipulation is pretty nebulous. How far would you take this though? Being a nice person and in a good mood is more likely to get people to agree with you and comply. Is that manipulation? I think manipulation has to include the intent to deceive. If you want something and ask for it in a weird way unnecessarily that's more like bad social skills. I think women in particular can make you feel great about spending time, energy and money on them or they can like nag you or be ungrateful and ruin the whole thing; which is why I linked it to femininity. A similar concept can be used to describe two men interaction so I guess charisma and charm can also be used in this context.

Who's grasping at assumptions now? I promise you : no AI involved.

Sorry I just don't agree with this characterization of femininity as machiavellian and manipulative. I know really feminine women that get men to do all kinds of things for them just by being nice and pleasant. I don't really see it as manipulative, that's just basic social skills. Especially sugar dating is the least manipulative type of relationship there is, it's literally both parties laying out their cards on the table and asking for what they want. A woman that wants a provider male but isn't able to ask for it with tact is not enviable in my books but feel free to indulge in that demographic.

Good post. Women usually don't respect you if they think you can't get other women and much worse if YOU think that then you will bow down out of subconscious knowledge that you are about to lose access to pussy if you argue with her too much. That's where the whipped husband meme comes from.

Why do egotism and narcissism get conflated with feminism? Leo has a book on feminism on his book list, have you read it?

Sure I think mastering stage orange is a great way to build a foundation for a solid life and the relationships that come with it. You keep saying that anyone that doesn't view the world the way you do is wrong. That sounds like a bias and ego deflection to me. It's your life man if you're happy with the way you're operating then more power to you. I'm just pointing out the blindspots that seem objective to me. When you start saying that women that want a man that has his shit together is stuck in ego then I think you've gone off the deep end. My reason for thinking that you are operating from shadow and not healthy integration of stage orange and green is you keep shaming other perspectives that aren't aligned with yours instead of understanding where they're coming from.

Well anger is a strong word. If you wanna let limiting beliefs run your life I promise you that I will not lose sleep over it. Feminism is not a necessary evil, it's a great movement of human progress. Not that long ago I would've had to raise an army to be allowed to date multiple women and now I can just dm them on Instagram invite them out and do it. It's a win for both men and women. Dude I named one Professor Marston. If you insist I do intellectual labor on your behalf here are a few more Franklin D. Roosevelt & Eleanor Roosevelt - Literal US president Simone de Beauvoir & Jean-Paul Sartre - Famous Philosopher H.G. Wells & Jane Eldridge - Famous Author Feel to look them up and the details of their polyamorous relationship. Also you brought up conflict multiple times, first of all that's in any relationship but also conflict resolution skills are talked about way more often in polyamorous circles than monogamous ones. Conflict can just as easily bond people closer together. Friction is a better word for it as it is indeed counter-culture but plenty of things that are valuable and realistic are. The fact that there are no recorded differences in marital satisfaction on average and on average couples polyamorous or not do not really self-develop means that if you do take self-development seriously your chances of being a massive outlier in terms of marital satisfaction are pretty high. I understand your concern and I understand your desire to avoid AI slop. To clarify: I don't copy paste what it says, when somebody says something that sounds crazy to me I ask it if its true or nonsense and do the same with my own points that I bring up. We're not really talking about insights here we're sharing goals and thoughts and when people make wild statements I feel like it enhances the quality of discussion to fact check stuff. I'm not an expert on anthropology or statistics on relationship quality so it's hard for me to argue based on my own knowledge so that's why I use my real life experience and anecdotes to back it up. When he says something wild like these things only work in 1 billion relationships it feels quite wrong to me but until I asked Gemini to give me statistics on relationship satisfaction; it's hard to debunk. I admit being wrong all the time but then the next step is finding a source of truth and if it's not in my own lived experience it's somewhere out there on the internet usually and that's why I look things up just like Googling instead of using an encyclopedia. My goal is to have conversations that help enhance my understanding and that of others so we can build our lives based on truth and not bias/dogma. I don't particularly care to always be correct and to win internet points. There aren't even any points on this website

Sure if it doesn't appeal to you then you are the master of your own destiny there isn't much I can say. That's not what you're saying though you keep calling it too difficult and unrealistic. I don't think that's the case. Why do you have such limiting beliefs? It really angers me to see it in others it's literally the elephant and the rope story and you've convinced yourself that good things in life are too hard to achieve. Why tf would feminism make polyamory harder? Polyamory is based on deep communication skills, mutual trust and deep respect and knowledge of your partner. The more feminist you are as a man the easier it will be to pull off. I literally admitted that I wouldn't necessarily mind my girl fucking other men under a situation that still leaves me feeling safe in my life and relationship overall. That requires a lot of emotional mastery but isn't impossible. I had this talk with @integral the other day and he was also doubtful but like there are books on this. The only reason I'm arguing with you is you didn't phrase it like it's not for you but you put a blank label of it's too difficult to achieve and it's not worth trying. Sounds to me like a homeless guy telling people getting a job is not worth it fuck you have to wake up and be someone's SLAVE, come with me to the park and have a beer and chill out why are you trying so far. Most FWBs I've had that I tried pitching a threesome to were super down. That's why it's a limiting belief, you read online that feminists make dating hell for men and you believe it but it's not true it's literally a shit test.

Bro sounds like your boy is gaslighting and shaming actual rational needs. Framing real-world value, security, and competence as purely "superficial / survival-oriented ego" is a classic Stage Green spiritual bypass. Depth and grounded real-world capability are not mutually exclusive—the highest-tier men have both. A woman wanting a man who has his career, finances, emotional health, and lifestyle sorted isn't "living in her ego"; she's displaying basic biological intelligence. I think it's great to want to connect emotionally rather than only through status games but that's also a false dichotomy. It's not because women value competence and stability in a man that they're gonna dump you to go fuck any man with $10K more in his bank account than you. Sounds to me like you're doubling down on an influencer that invalidates your shortcoming and validates your strengths. That's a road to delusion and frustration my friend.

I'm sorry bro as an INTP there is nothing I hate more than inaccurate confidently wrong blanket statements so I have to counter irrational points. I will prove you right I do use AI for a lot of stuff that I'm not sure on and to make sure what I say makes sense and is not easily disproved. Your 1 in a billion number has no bearing on our reality in any way whatsoever. There are documented studies on this and they found exactly 0 difference between average relationship satisfaction between monogamous and polyamorous couples. It's fine to have an opinion and a bias but why leave it be if it's not accurate. That's why I called you an anti-intellectual. Anyway, I would recommend this movie its really great and showcases a throuple so you and anyone reading can see what it looks like in practice. It's based on a real man Doctor William Moulton Marston who is the creator of Wonder Woman and was openly polyamorous in the 40s while teaching at Harvard. His two girlfriends stayed together after he died until their own deaths after he passed away. I understand that it's a difficult paradigm for westerners because it's not common but in some places of the world it is comon. Sometimes it's toxic sometimes it's not, just like any romantic relationship and friendships. I'm half french Canadian and half African from Chad and heck my dad's adoptive father was polyamorous and his two wives are still living together today after he died and they're in their 80s now.