LordFall

@Inliytened1 You went back to the ex didn't you Fuck bro winging it is dangerous. I almost impregnated my bpd ex girlfriend a few years ago, seemed like a decent idea at the time. That would've been a horror. Glad it didn't happen. My mating instincts are kicking in though now that I'm getting older. Once I have a bit more financial stability and I find a woman I think would make a great mother it's gonna be time to make a lot of pies and not the blueberry kind.

Very cool. I'm not that well versed in literature but Lota is based in 17th century Italy and when I asked AI it told me Giambattista Basile was one of the most relevant figures in that era. If you find stuff that would be cool to share I would be happy to discuss. Usually I align more with philosophers and intellectuals due to my logical brain. Lucilio Vanini seems like an interesting guy to research, he was dabbling in similar subjects to what we talk about here and he got burned at the stake for it. The Republic of Letters was a network of intellectuals around that time that corresponded through letters to build thought along the early modern period. Rene Descartes was part of them along with one of my new favorite historical figures; Christina Queen of Sweden who moved to Rome in 1655.

You have a pattern of avoidance; Natasha described it in the sex post here. You clearly lashed out pretty belligerently after I called you out on being irresponsible last page and you did the same to a few other people on the other thread as well. I'm the wrong person to call a pussy, I'm happy to keep fighting to the death. Whatever comes after will surely offer me more entertainment. Competing with other males is one of my greatest joys in this life. Since you pivoted and apologized; I'm also fine with that. Happy you got some good sex bro, that's one of the greatest gifts the universe has in store for us. Is that from the same bird you were telling us about the other day or you found another one?

Are you asexual The best partners are the ones that give you the best oral sex as often as possible in most people's books I would say. Now if you're talking about an infinite blowjob; I'm on board!

That's sick, yes once you start to gain a lot of momentum while continuously improving then you can become truly unstoppable. That's an interesting vocation, tell me more about Italian literature I'm not too familiar with it

You're wrong. If there are no consequences many will keep pushing for far more than they need for survival. Why do rich people commit crimes? Thus why I also agree with your point that the elites need to be policed as much as the masses. That was my idea with the AI system that assesses the actions of every human on earth and reports them when they fit a certain criminal threshold. Who determines what constitutes a crime today? Criminology has been a field for a couple hundred years now, we are still figuring out how to run a proper society. It's a fair point. Some perspectives around it seem more valid than others. Knowing that you are surveilled makes crime way less likely though. That's why police foot patrols are effective. If you know that there are three cameras on every street block and you want to mug someone but all the friends you have that have robbed someone went to jail for it; you will be way less likely to try it. If a couple of your boys got a few free thousand $$$ by robbing people and got away with it then fuck it why not give it a shot? This is kinda the plot of Death Note and Psycho-pass btw, they both explore how one tries to achieve a crime-less society. Great shows to watch if you haven't already.

No I think he's right and Granny knows what she's doing, a good scarf is where it's at. I don't have an upper age boundary to my romantic conquests and the winters are cold here. If she makes me some cool scarves she's welcome to join the harem, if she makes me look sweet then I'll pick up even more women and we all keep winning baby.

I think it's important to understand personality types as survival strategies. Being an intellectual is a survival strategy more than really deep down who you are. Especially if we break down what being an intellectual usually entails: being more withdrawn, observing before acting, using pattern recognition to spot trends, analysis oriented, etc. Those sound like ways to deal with an environment, problems and overall threats to me. Now if we look at how masculinity and femininity manifest in women; doesn't it map out pretty much perfectly to survival strategies? Some women are raised in environments where being expressive and girly is what's gonna solve their problems and increase their status. Some other women have to suppress that and basically act like men to be safe. Classic case of Mulan from Disney or Arya Stark in Game of thrones. That's the nurture component and I'm sure there are some genetic components as well. I think once an individual is removed from that survival pressure they might still keep some tendencies that are now the core of their personality. I think some of you guys in this thread would be shocked at how different people behave if you give them a safe space to express themselves though. I was the manager of a coffee shop and I had two women and two men working under me. We hired a dude who was really useless and one of the women when working with him was rude, bossy and what some would call masculine. He was an active liability to be around in the cafe though and made everyone's life harder. When she worked with me and I did everything and she didn't really have to do much she was so sweet and nice and expressive and girly and just bringing me cookies and chilling. If you guys want a feminine woman then give her space to be feminine and handle all her problems for her. Some women will still not let their guard down and have some mental hangups that they may choose to work through to relax and let themselves just express unencumbered. The trope of the alpha male has been bastardized but it really just mean a competent man that can handle society and the evils of the world on her behalf. If you got enough money that she will never have to stress about it, are fit enough that her nervous system knows that if shit goes down she's safe, if you have communication skills to not antagonize her when conflict arises and the emotional intelligence to understand the issues that you're both dealing with and work through them positively then I think you will find that most women are quite feminine in your presence. Most men aren't that(not that I have fully realized that myself) and are literally an active liability to be around. No wonder they find women uninterested in them, combative and unpleasant to deal with.

I agree when I work on businesses I'm not interested in it's very hard for me to be disciplined and follow through long term beyond a couple of months since I don't actually really give a fuck about what I'm doing. My passion projects have always gotten me better results, I'm trying to double back on that philosophy with the game project I'm working on at the moment. How is the music going? I think if that's your passion then you should triple down on that and there are many ways to make a lot of money in that industry.

I don't think you can make that point at all my man. I've already said that you can argue that it's just as good if not better for kids to be raised in a polyamorous household. Studies back there being no observed difference in outcomes for kids raised in either type of household. I like to build communities of like-minded people since then we can elevate the quality of discussions, interactions and overall level of results compared to baseline society. I do it with my creative communities as well as some business clubs I run. I think the baseline of humans is quite low level and mediocre. I think the same thing can be achieved for a group relationship that produces a higher level of interdependence between the partners and I think if I look at my life over a 30+ years horizon if I can manage to have a few quality women by my side to build my household and later on dynasty I think we can achieve great things and have a blast in the process. Also like our wise friend said here I dislike the anti sex sentiment that the spiritual community tends to have. I have a high sex drive and enjoy exploring sexuality and BDSM so me and my women will have great times that's for sure. It's fine but I want to keep pushing on this because I think we unearthed some interesting psychology here. Clearly you dislike being challenged and tend to lash out as a result. You said that your dominance trait tended to become a problem in your relationships. Do you think it's related?

I mean I'm gonna try to be nicer than I usually am even with someone that's being condescending but don't you see how you're clearly delusional? Of course refusing the existence of hierarchies is inferior to understanding why and how they work lol If it makes you feel better about being born into yellow, you don't seem to exhibit many yellow traits and if I had to give your argument a spiral dynamics assessment I would call it 20% yellow, 60% green, 0% orange and 20% blue. I'll leave you with a Soccer analogy. Why on earth would everyone on earth be equally good at Soccer? Some people have a natural disposition towards athleticism and some others other fields. Some others that have less natural talent become way better at it than others who are more talented but train less. Some people have higher IQ than others. Some people with high IQs are depressed and can't solve their problems even with it and some people with 80 IQ are the happiest people on earth. Being offended at hierarchies is an inferior viewpoint because it's reductionist and fails to comprehend how they fit into the grander system of the universe. @Natasha Tori Maru is also right that you clearly aren't deeply yellow since you started with the conclusion that spiral dynamics is invalid because it's unfair and when I debunked your point instead of understanding my perspective and adding it to yours; you got triggered and attacked me and did this weird thing where I should have to do the intellectual labor of making your point for you. Classic stage green trend where when they encounter something that feels unfair and wrong to them they use emotions over logic to react to it and tend to virtue signal or flip out. Thus why it's a very ineffective stage and leaves people quite bitter and depressed because they refuse to integrate stage orange and become effective agents of change in the world and are just stuck with pain without a way to channel it into higher tier yellow systemic solutions.

@Schizophonia Do you disagree? How come?

They don't really keep a tally of how many criminals it actually helped stop though, I assume that it's far more than the random cop that stalked his ex. The technology also worked as intended, it had an accountability mechanism built in so that the cop was audited for his abuse of power and reprimanded. Got it so apart from random quotes, what do you believe on the subject? If you really believe in this quote how far are you willing to take it? Is a seatbelt taking up your essential liberty? What about the right to carry swords, not that long ago that was your right. Are you a gun activist, should more people be encouraged to open carry? I haven't researched Franklin much but it could also be said that his philosophy and the way he helped create the United States led to the many abuses of power that the US has been guilty of throughout its history. On top of the lax constitution that now puts them in the constitutional crisis that resulted in appointing a pedophile as their head of state. Edit: Also as I looked it up your quote literally backs up my point. He said this quote in regards to wanting to tax the rich Penn family to fund frontier defence in 1755 and the Penn family tried to bribe the assembly against it and he told them to not be cowards and take the easy money would be giving up their essential liberty.

Apothecary diaries is on Netflix, it's quite good. It's about a girl who gets kidnapped into the Chinese Imperial palace and starts out as a regular servant and gets elevated to the inner palace due to her proficiency in herbology, medicine and potion making. All kinds of court intrigues and the grandiosity of Imperial China! The main character is a funny chick who ends up being a detective ala Sherlock Holmes on the palace grounds, quite unique character design.

I don't understand the root of the objection nor do I think the surface level explanation you've offered of it is correct. I'm open to your arguments but it seems perhaps actually you're sitting in that stage green bubble where natural hierarchies make you uncomfortable and you refuse to believe there are innate differences between people? Which I think is the root of your objection but I wouldn't say its correct; the truth is even worse! Most people don't want to grow and improve even if they can. Their limitations are perhaps real but are self-imposed on top of that! I think almost everyone can teach themselves a much higher level of thinking and cognition but it's basically impossible because they don't see the benefit, are too lazy, are too egoistical or maybe just there is legitimately no reason for them to. I have never taught myself astrophysics or how to play Hockey. Maybe I could've been a great hockey player who knows. Rest up, and when your head is clear, feel free to elaborate more on your points. I think it's a worthwhile topic to explore and not just take Leo's word on it. Models can either survive the stress test or by invalidating them we can find an even superior model. To be honest though throughout this exchange so far you've mostly solidified to me how solid the predictive ability of spiral dynamics is.

Yes I think I understand your position. You're saying that spiral dynamics is too intellectual to be a truly accurate model of reality/enlightenment for all humans? I sort of agree but I think perhaps that doesn't invalidate it but it does show some limitations to the model. Perhaps not all humans are capable of highly advanced cognitive development, certainly not all biological creatures are right? To me where yellow and turquoise make a lot of sense is that they are more complete versions of seeing the world. It seems pretty obvious to me that tier 1 stages are myopic in their understanding of the world. Orange is more rational and effective than blue but selfish and destructive if it lacks the kindness and empathy of green. Green is more holistic but is quite limited in its perspective and always thinks they are right and has a massive blindspot as to the utility of stage orange so its not a really effective stage. Yellow seems to be the first stage where people are really able to question their own judgement and even if they find themselves being right can understand the perspective of others at lower stages whereas green for example views people that disagree with it as corrupt or evil and orange sees people that disagree with it as dumb or ineffective. Turquoise takes it a step deeper and understands that there is a flow to the universe and different beings are meant to experience the world in different ways and that's what the universe and consciousness is. I think a lot of stage turquoise gurus seem to have found themselves in the flow of the universe aren't really systematic people but they intuit through meditation or whatever way they found to understand the multi-perspectival nature of life and how they are just one of the many perspectives experiencing reality without having the intellectual rigor to really break it down into a science.

Fair enough, looking forward to seeing it!

Also bro perhaps you're simply experiencing sour grapes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes We talked about this yesterday and you dismissed pickup as just another addiction. I think this post unearthed a deeper layer to your psychology though. It seems that you swung from hardcore porn addict to I guess a celibate nofapper? You didn't elaborate on your life but I assume you don't have a girlfriend? I was way more bitter against women before I slept with a bunch of them through game. I lost my virginity at 18 and in my mid teens the thought literally occurred to me that sex was a cosmic joke played against me and it wasn't really a real thing. It sounds a bit silly but when you fuck a bunch of chicks and just lay down cuddle with them and engage in deep pillow talk then you realize you're not that different and their different life strategies are just a function of their social goals. Also when you start to build big things and put effort in your life it starts to become really obvious that the average man doesn't offer much value and so it becomes a bit normal to be aloof to them which might read as mean or almost evil from the point of view of the people that feel like they're being cold shouldered.

How do you figure you're not the one that's confused then? It almost seems like we're talking about the sky is blue situation. To have a serious conversation we have to agree that there isn't really such a thing as the sky and we're talking about ozone layers which appear blue but are not really definitively so. You don't need to be an academic to find data that backs your conclusions otherwise you're just venting your feelings and claiming to have access to truth. You can ask any AI model to prove or disprove your ideas and find relevant studies to reference. I don't honestly think you'll find some that will validate your conclusion that masculinity and femininity are immutable traits.

@aurum Got it and what are the conclusions in your project based on in terms of hard data? I'm quite familiar with the big five personality and MBTIs. The closest thing that I can think to map to femininity/masculinity is the dichotomy between feeling types and logic types in MBTI but we still didn't define what we mean by both of those spectrums so it's hard to make definitive conclusions. Some people seem to me to have a multi-perspectival way of viewing the world without being particularly analytical and relying mostly on their intuition over hard logic so your answer of no seems a bit too definitive here. I don't understand why this conclusion makes sense to you. If spiral dynamics is a model made to map cognitive development why would an ability to systemize reality either intuitively or logically being required to achieve tier 2 invalidate the model? The whole point of the model is that it's made for the most cognitive animal on earth or constructs like social groups or entire societies which in and of themselves operate as massive cognition engines.

I would be very curious on your deeper thoughts on it. I think perhaps you just don't understand the concept enough? Tier 1 sees the world only from its own perspective. Tier 2 starts having a multi-perspectival experience of reality. Stage Yellow is an intellectual experience and Stage Turquoise an existential experience where your sense of self and the illusion of duality literally melts apart. It makes a lot of sense to me. Have you had any mystical experiences or dabbled with psychedelics? I think if you only understand spirituality from an intellectual perspective it would be hard to really grasp and believe in spiral dynamics.

Mommy?

Yes I see fashion more as a function not really the way I think about self-expression. If I'm trying to look good and attract women I have a go to going out outfit and when I stay in for periods of time I tend to just wear sweatpants and a t shirt. I think fashion is really interesting in terms of signalling theory and how people treat you drastically differently based on how you present. Craziest example is when I look nerdy with my glasses and then switch to grey contacts and trim my beard and I go from being not that relevant to women to women eyeing me often and giving me compliments.

Riding this guy is considered therapy? It's over boys Leave some for the rest of us bro

Well, we need to define terms to have a proper discourse around the subject. What do you even mean by masculinity and femininity? Why are you strongly against it? Do you have some research that backs up this sentiment or it's more of a lived experienced type of thing? I think humans can present different fronts depending on the environment they're in and yes they can present as quite masculine in one context and more feminine in another. Sometimes a personality is quite consistent in all environments but perhaps for example let's take a very stoic and unemotional man. I would argue that personality type is more of a function of having to be strong and unreactive in the situations that they're in over a core unchangeable personality trait. Being a feminine flamboyant man is gonna be a less successful life strategy in the favelas of Brazil over the streets of San Francisco or Toronto. @Joshe Spiral dynamics tier 2 is not merely about having a predisposition towards systems thinking. It's more of an identity and way of relating to the world. Have you watched the videos on tier Yellow and Turquoise and the applications of spiral dynamics?