LordFall

Of course it is to have a serious discussion. If you want to talk about astrophysics I can give you some random thoughts I have on it(planets are cool I'm looking forward to the space exploration timeline of humanity) but I have never worked in the field nor seriously researched it. You should not take my opinions as seriously as someone who is well experienced and credible in the field. Dating and relationships are a field like any other. People can have opinions grounded in reality or delusions or in between. Which is why I find a lot of dating arguments on this forum very low level and when I push people it often times reveals that they don't have any real experience that would qualify them to have a solid opinion, they just share how they generally feel. Which is fine do that but when I question you your arguments are gonna fall apart because they're not arguments they're just random opinions that you hold. Unless you can prove otherwise and then I'm willing to have a high quality conversation on it not really even a debate. I think this is one of the most important areas of life and the more we work on it and talk about it the better our lives get. Religions have shamed sexuality and human relationships for long enough I'm tired of it. Let's make our dating experiences legendary and at the very least 10/10 if not better.

I don't think anyone should get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to optimizing for a best life. You should be able to prove that your philosophy and actions matter otherwise you're just sharing an opinion which is cheap. I don't give my own opinion credit I fact check it and test it against reality every time. Yes I want to impregnate ideally 2 or 3 women and raise a lot of kids with them. I haven't tried polyamorous dating long term yet just have a few FWBs but generally the more women I have in my life the more I enjoy it so we'll see how it goes. It's not about being top 0.01% in arbitrary areas for the sake of it. It's about maximizing the key areas of your life. Which to me are my romantic relationships, my business, my family relationships, my social relationships and my greater impact on the world. If you aren't mastering dating you're gonna have predictably mediocre results that's what mediocre means. Mediocre : Mediocre is an adjective that describes something of average or ordinary quality. It refers to something that is barely acceptable, not very good, or lacking distinction—neither particularly outstanding nor notably poor.

That makes sense I feel like I understand you better. INTJs are usually skeptical of INTP ideas because INTPs rely on intuition and leave like 30% of the plan in the air. I would just say that I think chess is solid in terms of mastering pattern recognition perhaps even logic/reasoning but I don't know that I would draw a direct parallel to it. The main categories that are generally used are wealth, health, love and happiness. You can subdivide them into a lot of things but social development is a massive category of both wealth and love. As in having strong relationships that fulfill your goals in your personal life but also in terms of your impact on society and the world. For me I'd say I became really results oriented after I became a top 0.01% challenger player in League of Legends. I was bad at the game before and then I read a forum post in like 2011 that just said most people think they are good or decent at the game and that holds them back a lot. They are actually shit at the game and when you realize that you can start to improve. That really changed my mindset because in LoL there is a victim mindset concept called ELO hell where basically people believe their team is holding them back because it's a 5v5 game but it actually makes no sense because you can have 4 bad players on your team but 5 on the other ones so if you're better than people you climb easily. I then started being an ELO booster so getting played to improve people's rankings and I thought the psychological phenomenon was very strange but it's really everywhere in real life. If you make most things a skill ladder then most people think they are way higher than they are. When I was in high school I read a lot of pickup forums and when I was 19 I started taking seriously and you see the same thing there. People think they are high value dudes and can get hot girls and then get their egos crushed when they go to the club and either can't muster up the courage to go up to a girl or even when they do they get rejected and can't even attract women they're not attracted to. The more I improved myself in that regard the cooler opportunities I got and the more obvious these concepts became to me. One that stands out in terms of status is in 2022 for my birthday my roommate that's a club promoter had a booth at rebel the biggest club in Canada and one guy took a group of hot girls brought them up on the booth and said hey this is Kyle he's a really cool dude you should makeout with him and the hottest girl in the group madeout with me within like 10 seconds. I was doing a lot of cold approach at that time and never had those results that quickly and definitely not with a girl that hot. So if you've never had a pickup journey and even if you had but haven't played around with social circle/social media and fame game you can't understand the power it has. You will have the hottest women in the world be super down to fuck you pretty quickly. So when I read guys say that it's not a real thing, or shallow or just manipulation I think they don't understand how this works and have probably never tried themselves. A lot of times you can make it pretty binary if your dream women were stuck in a closet with you would they have the time of their life or have a traumatic experience and often times the answer is obvious. So when OP talks about getting a nice decent relationship but not being satisfied with it my answer is gonna be obviously bro you gotta go on the full journey it's so worth it.

Why not? There are plenty of polyamorous couples raising kids. It has issues and sometimes people breakup but so do monogamous relationships. Its a new relationship paradigm and most people don't have the emotional intelligence for this but it totally works. An easy way to look at it is most bisexual women would at least consider the idea. Most of them are probably too jealous to make it work but if they have a pleasant time dating you and you have good conflict resolution and communication skills I think probably 25% of them would be down. Maybe more. According to Gallup 7% of women are bisexual but according to Gen-z surveys it's more like 16% which matches up to the around 19% of women that report having had sex with another woman. 25-35% of women report being mostly heterosexual as opposed to fully straight. So you'd end up like 2-10% of all women that would fit a dynamic like this. If your money is really good perhaps even straight women would be down so raise the percentage even more. That's why being in abundance is important, both to open your mind to different fun lifestyles that are possible but also even when your eyes are opened you need to be able to attract a wide number of women to screen for the ones that are most compatible for your desired life long term.

I mean those guys get a lot of attractive women. You're probably right no those particular cases because these men don't seem particularly emotionally available and doubt they worked on their emotional trauma. You can be wildly successful and still have women that deeply love you and are loyal to you. Probably many of them at once in a polyamorous setup as well. @AION A good tip is wearing stuff that stands out so women have an easy opener to talk to you. I get a lot of compliments on my necklace even though it's just a $8 one from H&M. I know this works because sometimes I want an opener to talk to a woman that I find pretty but she's not wearing something that stands out so I have to go full direct or usually just go along the rest of my day without having talked to her.

Why?

@Hojo Here is a good reel showcasing the massive difference softmaxxing can make https://www.instagram.com/p/DZV54yPxtMB/ It's really night and day. It's silly to underestimate the massive different in results this will have on someone's life. 3-5 points depending on the guy You can go from a 4/10 that only gets attention from obese women/divorced single moms with 3 kids to a 8-9 chad that picks up women everywhere he goes.

Pretty sure if you travel and learn some game you can find about 10 of those women in like 1 month if you tried hard. Which country are you from and have you tried dating in other places? It's not gambling if you're executing a proven plan that other men succeed at. I know guys that would do this in a lets say hedonistic way and would meet 1-3 new women each day. Not that they meet all those boxes but most of them met the attractiveness one. Now for loyalty and mentally stable I would say take out 60% and have compatible lifestyle and you take out another 50% and you end up with about 5-10 new compatible candidates. Do this over a 5-6 month period in different countries and tightening your screening and you'll find an actual top tier partner. Be polyamorous and you'll have many of them. Now make some money and you can afford to settle down with all of them.

You need to buy a pickup program my brother. Finding a girl that accepts you is not the jackpot. It's the bare minimum a man should envision for his dating life and really even below that.

@integral What's your MBTI type we clearly have vastly ways of seeing the world. I like to quantify things otherwise we are talking about vague generalities with no way of knowing if we're talking about the same thing. > Out of 10 what quality of partner do you think you deserve? If you answer anything other than 10 you're low self-esteem or lazy in my books. This is a very straightforward statement. If you feel like your partner is 10/10 then you've won. Has nothing to do with what you're owed it's about the vision you have for your life. Some people have different requirements for their perfect 10 but if your suggestion is that if you find a 7/10 relationship you should be happy then you're coping. I think you should find your 10/10 woman no matter what it takes. Then you find another 10/10 and fuck them both at once. Now you're at 20/10. Now you meditate on your life journey and you are grateful that the universe has such abundant blessings, now you're feeling 30/10. Now you work on your business and make a lot of money so you date them both and impregnate them both, now you're at a 50/10. Then you create social circles all around the world so you're not limited to one city and have both more sensual opportunities but really social and business connections throughout many countries, now now you're at 70/10. Why settle for a 7/10 relationship when you can have a 70/10 one? I'm exaggerating a bit(but not really this is my legitimate goal) to paint a picture but you get the point. I'm not new to self-development I've been doing this for over a decade. I see a lot of people cope with their lack of results and then veil it with a having transcended materiality and now being a superior ascended being but rarely does that translate to actual results and is usually cope in my experience. It goes back to our conversation in the other thread that you can act like you're satisfied with your growth journey but if you're disastisfied with the world and when you analyze your life you realize that you haven't build any scale and impact to what you're doing then obviously it's spiritual bypassing. It sort of sounds like your situation, feel free to elaborate if I'm wrong. To me it's like a spiritual guru that's blessing out in cave thinking and perhaps having really transcended our reality. Still a low impact individual that's not as developed as he or she could be and if I spoke to such a Guru I would tell him the same thing.

Very cool, Europe is nice as well. I've been to France and the UK but I was a teenager so mostly played Pokemon on my 3ds. I wanna go back as an adult and enjoy what it has to offer. Have you been to Italy? I wanna check out a few of the cities here. I tried dining club events in Canada and we did a pasta challenge for a bit but we had to stop because the pasta was so bad it ruined my mood at the events trying to review it.

Cool that makes sense thanks for sharing. Are you based in India? Sorry if that's wrong I think I read you write that or somewhere else. If so that's pretty lucky it's a cool country I wanna visit soon. A lot of different big cities to try as well and Indian women are very beautiful.

Right when worded that way I totally agree with you. It's important to build an authentic life and not just react to childhood trauma. Personally I find building social circles and working on attracting more and hotter women quite fulfilling and interesting at the point of life I'm at now. I'm sure in a few years that will have evolved into something new and even more interesting for example helping humanity solve their dating issues with my startup idea. What type of event or pursuit would you say has most helped your dating life so far? Like if you consider everything you've tried. For me it was probably changing cities and immersing myself with people that had the results I wanted.

You literally do need others though. See that's what I mean by spiritual bypassing it's a niche idea but not true. Humans are a collective being, your individuality is an illusion. You can't grow your own food let alone birth yourself without others. I think that's a cool story. I don't think you have to be vulnerable all the time though and there is a time and place for it. You are also a multifaceted being, I'm sure there are other ways that you did feel confident in that evening just that particular comment threw you off. Perhaps in general you're confident that women react well to you. So you can lean in her her and say want me to tell you the secret, "beautiful women like you" and then riff off of that. If you're not feeling that emotion at all in the moment and read it on a forum and try it I'll agree with you then that falls more into manipulation. As a whole though human beings feel different things and express them in different ways and have different skill level in doing so. Is writing a song manipulation? Some people when they are sad mope on it and do nothing about it. Some other write a song and then publish it on Youtube. One is more valuable to others than the other. The more you do valuable things for others the more people will value you. To what extent you seek this is a great question to figure out and I agree with you that getting to the bottom of your why is important to not be continuously seeking. You can value and accept yourself that's great and necessary but unless you want live in a forest learning to be hunter and have the funds to build a self-sufficient homestead life is a collective experience.

@Valach Meeting people's needs and desires is not manipulation. It's allowing them to live the life they want to live. The default aspect of life is a barren field. I guess in an ultimate form that can satisfy you but humans like to build constructs and we now have a global economy in it. If you become a financially abundant man with a great and fun lifestyle you have much more to offer than someone who's broke without resources. That's as real as it gets. You don't need to do that, I see homeless people in relationships but once again to praise that as the peak of existence is a bit silly. Competition in the economy and in dating is part of the human experience that. To try to invalidate that entirely to me sounds like spiritual bypassing. I didn't mean to say you in particular, I appreciate you and the discussions we've had in the past couple weeks. They are important subjects to talk about and figure out. @Raze I think people do wanna change otherwise you wouldn't see so much hate on social media. When people see others living the life they wanna life they get angry because they want it too. I think social media has done a good job of globalizating humanity and now we should work to give everyone a chance to experience the life they wanna live.

Ego like being offended at the need to get better and that other people are having a better dating and social life than you. Sure I think it can serve for validation in an unhealthy way but also dating and having beautiful and great women in your life is well great. Why do you default to "manipulation" others into giving you validation? Social skills are learned. When you're born you can't speak and can't communicate effectively; are you saying this is the peak of human existence? To me I've enjoyed life more and more the more I connect to other people and by that I mostly mean interesting men to talk business with and cool women to date/work on projects with. I think I'm more than extreme than most in that area being an INTP but in general I think pretty much everyone wants people they value in their life. If you don't have that right now you're only choice is to get out of your comfort zone and try new things and get better at the things you like and enjoy so that you have more of a scale in it.

I sort of agree maybe 40% but I think 60% of that is ego. When I worked on my social skills to get women and because I got out of my shell I'm rewarded with female attention and ultimately pussy I was not offended to have to change myself. Personally I thought holy fuck why wasn't I taught this sooner every single person who has given me advice that hasn't worked in the past is a POS and has wasted my life and effort. They wouldn't have to, just write a paragraph sharing their experience on each contestant and giving them a rating. I would then use my experience in dating and come up with a data science system to rank guys. Then I would give them generalized feedback and if they wanna pay me for consulting give them basically all I got. Personally I was always offended that Tinder would hoard all of our swiping data and don't make it available to you in any form. I would've totally paid for that. If you've used it for years Tinder knows exactly what type of women do and don't like you and realistically how you can optimize your profile and appearance to get literally the type of women that you swipe on. It seems like it's solved dating but they're in a business model where they don't know what to do with the data. I could also start a talk show type of brand where I get hosts to talk about this and instead of just venting about the dating scene endlessly or people having opinions that are not true at all it's all data backed. I talked to female friend yesterday that asked me for feedback on how to get men she was more attracted to. I kind of danced around the bush but basically it's because she projects butch lesbian vibes and isn't good at presenting or performing femininity. I don't know how many years she has been trying to data unsuccessfully or how many more it will take to fix but I think people have very identifiable issues when it comes to their dating life and lack of success in life in general. I think I could help both men and women figure their dating life out pretty quick. I just hate shit that doesn't work. I think humanity has advanced enough to solve dating for basically anyone. I think cold approach coaching is too messy to scale but a specific event format like speed dating can be replicated in most cities globally and with the data they just get better each one you throw.

@integral Well that's a bit far but I agree with it being a common INTP trait in general. It's one of my favorite parts of my personality though, most people I find lack creativity and originality. Some of it is pathological and unhealthy like for my personal self I want to stop watching porn for 1 year and see if it changes my desires and appreciation for life. I tend to find most of life dull and uninteresting so complicated ideas and schemes appeal to me. Having said that the part of life that was always interesting and full of challenges and wonder to me was dating. The more I study it the deeper the potential of it goes and how much settling I see in the wider world. Humans have never really gotten a chance to actually self-develop in that area and really explore. Most of the last couple of thousands of years humanity has defaulted to enforced monogamy as a default societal order strategy but by definition it can't result in meeting someone that you're actually optimally compatible with. To me it mirrors the life purpose quest where most people default to a cookie cutter career that pays their bills and give up their dreams. According to Gemini 5% of people actually accomplish their childhood dreams 30% compromise to something that's more realistic and fit them and 65% aren't satisfied with where they're at and grab what they can. That 65% mirrors what I see in terms of mediocre relationships in the world, to me that's quite sad.

My idea to innovate on the model would be to make it heavily feedback and data based. So you go let's say you sit down with 12 women for 5 minutes afterwards you get a rating on your appearance and conversation skills separately out of 10. Then you can test out different ways of styling yourself and work on your conversation skills and get feedback on it. For $50 seems worth it and if you'd do it 10 times you'd get a lot of value out of that $500 and meeting 120 women. I don't think actual speed dating events do this though from what I'm gathering. @Ulax I'm gonna go to one in the next month. I believe in trying everything and seeing what works. When I was in dating more a few years ago it felt like kind of lame but perhaps it wasn't marketed properly. @aurum @Valach Have you guys tried to learn some photography and do multiple shoots with your friends or hired a professional photographer? In my experience most men with basic pics don't get great results. I had around 14 matches and 0 dates when I did it myself and when I became a photographer and went hard at it for a few months I got to 700 matches and probably like 15-20 dates, 3 FWBs and multiple one night stands from it. The results were much more predictable than cold approach or social circle. I'd give it a go more seriously. How was the format different than speed dating? Was there a particular activity or event format they used that you really liked?

There is truth to this mindset but be careful with the lack of nuance in it. Dating is a market. If you don't cater to what customers want you are unattractive by default. My default desired strategy is I stay at home in my pyjamas and hot women from all over the city and the world come and beg to fuck me. That strategy does not seem to work. I get much more success when I respect myself but still cater to the desires and needs of the women I want to invite into my life. @Monster Energy Test it. Who knows until you try it and see if you get the desired results from the women you're attracted to.

@WonderSeeker Sounds good my man. I see RSD Luke is following you, have you worked with him in the past? He's definitely the dating mentor I've learned the most from in terms of meeting people everywhere I go.

Not his wife his girlfriend that he’s been dating for 8 months, as in the standard honeymoon relationship. That’s one level that trickles down to every aspect of their relationship. He won’t feel understood and seen, they’ll have different goals and long term vision for their lives , they’ll value different aspect of communication, etc. It’s basically the difference between finding your best friend vs some chill person that accepts you. It’s not a small detail, to me that would be like a 60% miss-match. I didn't date them long term but I have two FWBs that were comfortable and loving when I hung out with them for a few months. To me that's the start of abundance. If you do your pick up journey properly you should have that in abundance. There is something to be said about being more in appreciation and lowering your threshold for stimulation but I wouldn't conflate that with having low dating experience and standards. We are blessed to be living in times where we can explore dating more abundantly than pretty much any of our ancestors, I wouldn't default to settling for the first woman that accepts you as being a wise answer.

Makes sense. Have you tried dating since then? I'd be curious how your new re-centering affected that process

Right but you didn’t answer my question why don’t you think you deserve a 10/10 partner? It is because you know you are slacking on your dating and social development and thus probably can’t attract one so you should be thankful for what you get? Not trying to be rude I think it’s a helpful dichotomie to investigate I have spent a lot of years working on my dating life to fit my standards and the people that don’t from what I’m seeing are getting predictably mediocre results. It's not something to be ashamed about but I would seriously advice working on it and fixing it so you feel confident in the world's abundance in that aspect.

I’m committed to levelling up—both professionally and socially as well as fixing my emotional and communication issues. I’m also building a fun, abundant lifestyle to invite high-standard partners into. I don't think people with high standards are shallow; I'd say it's actually a sign of depth and maturity. People that haven't worked on themselves tend to have shallow criteria and low standards.