LordFall

You literally do need others though. See that's what I mean by spiritual bypassing it's a niche idea but not true. Humans are a collective being, your individuality is an illusion. You can't grow your own food let alone birth yourself without others. I think that's a cool story. I don't think you have to be vulnerable all the time though and there is a time and place for it. You are also a multifaceted being, I'm sure there are other ways that you did feel confident in that evening just that particular comment threw you off. Perhaps in general you're confident that women react well to you. So you can lean in her her and say want me to tell you the secret, "beautiful women like you" and then riff off of that. If you're not feeling that emotion at all in the moment and read it on a forum and try it I'll agree with you then that falls more into manipulation. As a whole though human beings feel different things and express them in different ways and have different skill level in doing so. Is writing a song manipulation? Some people when they are sad mope on it and do nothing about it. Some other write a song and then publish it on Youtube. One is more valuable to others than the other. The more you do valuable things for others the more people will value you. To what extent you seek this is a great question to figure out and I agree with you that getting to the bottom of your why is important to not be continuously seeking. You can value and accept yourself that's great and necessary but unless you want live in a forest learning to be hunter and have the funds to build a self-sufficient homestead life is a collective experience.

@Valach Meeting people's needs and desires is not manipulation. It's allowing them to live the life they want to live. The default aspect of life is a barren field. I guess in an ultimate form that can satisfy you but humans like to build constructs and we now have a global economy in it. If you become a financially abundant man with a great and fun lifestyle you have much more to offer than someone who's broke without resources. That's as real as it gets. You don't need to do that, I see homeless people in relationships but once again to praise that as the peak of existence is a bit silly. Competition in the economy and in dating is part of the human experience that. To try to invalidate that entirely to me sounds like spiritual bypassing. I didn't mean to say you in particular, I appreciate you and the discussions we've had in the past couple weeks. They are important subjects to talk about and figure out. @Raze I think people do wanna change otherwise you wouldn't see so much hate on social media. When people see others living the life they wanna life they get angry because they want it too. I think social media has done a good job of globalizating humanity and now we should work to give everyone a chance to experience the life they wanna live.

Ego like being offended at the need to get better and that other people are having a better dating and social life than you. Sure I think it can serve for validation in an unhealthy way but also dating and having beautiful and great women in your life is well great. Why do you default to "manipulation" others into giving you validation? Social skills are learned. When you're born you can't speak and can't communicate effectively; are you saying this is the peak of human existence? To me I've enjoyed life more and more the more I connect to other people and by that I mostly mean interesting men to talk business with and cool women to date/work on projects with. I think I'm more than extreme than most in that area being an INTP but in general I think pretty much everyone wants people they value in their life. If you don't have that right now you're only choice is to get out of your comfort zone and try new things and get better at the things you like and enjoy so that you have more of a scale in it.

I sort of agree maybe 40% but I think 60% of that is ego. When I worked on my social skills to get women and because I got out of my shell I'm rewarded with female attention and ultimately pussy I was not offended to have to change myself. Personally I thought holy fuck why wasn't I taught this sooner every single person who has given me advice that hasn't worked in the past is a POS and has wasted my life and effort. They wouldn't have to, just write a paragraph sharing their experience on each contestant and giving them a rating. I would then use my experience in dating and come up with a data science system to rank guys. Then I would give them generalized feedback and if they wanna pay me for consulting give them basically all I got. Personally I was always offended that Tinder would hoard all of our swiping data and don't make it available to you in any form. I would've totally paid for that. If you've used it for years Tinder knows exactly what type of women do and don't like you and realistically how you can optimize your profile and appearance to get literally the type of women that you swipe on. It seems like it's solved dating but they're in a business model where they don't know what to do with the data. I could also start a talk show type of brand where I get hosts to talk about this and instead of just venting about the dating scene endlessly or people having opinions that are not true at all it's all data backed. I talked to female friend yesterday that asked me for feedback on how to get men she was more attracted to. I kind of danced around the bush but basically it's because she projects butch lesbian vibes and isn't good at presenting or performing femininity. I don't know how many years she has been trying to data unsuccessfully or how many more it will take to fix but I think people have very identifiable issues when it comes to their dating life and lack of success in life in general. I think I could help both men and women figure their dating life out pretty quick. I just hate shit that doesn't work. I think humanity has advanced enough to solve dating for basically anyone. I think cold approach coaching is too messy to scale but a specific event format like speed dating can be replicated in most cities globally and with the data they just get better each one you throw.

@integral Well that's a bit far but I agree with it being a common INTP trait in general. It's one of my favorite parts of my personality though, most people I find lack creativity and originality. Some of it is pathological and unhealthy like for my personal self I want to stop watching porn for 1 year and see if it changes my desires and appreciation for life. I tend to find most of life dull and uninteresting so complicated ideas and schemes appeal to me. Having said that the part of life that was always interesting and full of challenges and wonder to me was dating. The more I study it the deeper the potential of it goes and how much settling I see in the wider world. Humans have never really gotten a chance to actually self-develop in that area and really explore. Most of the last couple of thousands of years humanity has defaulted to enforced monogamy as a default societal order strategy but by definition it can't result in meeting someone that you're actually optimally compatible with. To me it mirrors the life purpose quest where most people default to a cookie cutter career that pays their bills and give up their dreams. According to Gemini 5% of people actually accomplish their childhood dreams 30% compromise to something that's more realistic and fit them and 65% aren't satisfied with where they're at and grab what they can. That 65% mirrors what I see in terms of mediocre relationships in the world, to me that's quite sad.

My idea to innovate on the model would be to make it heavily feedback and data based. So you go let's say you sit down with 12 women for 5 minutes afterwards you get a rating on your appearance and conversation skills separately out of 10. Then you can test out different ways of styling yourself and work on your conversation skills and get feedback on it. For $50 seems worth it and if you'd do it 10 times you'd get a lot of value out of that $500 and meeting 120 women. I don't think actual speed dating events do this though from what I'm gathering. @Ulax I'm gonna go to one in the next month. I believe in trying everything and seeing what works. When I was in dating more a few years ago it felt like kind of lame but perhaps it wasn't marketed properly. @aurum @Valach Have you guys tried to learn some photography and do multiple shoots with your friends or hired a professional photographer? In my experience most men with basic pics don't get great results. I had around 14 matches and 0 dates when I did it myself and when I became a photographer and went hard at it for a few months I got to 700 matches and probably like 15-20 dates, 3 FWBs and multiple one night stands from it. The results were much more predictable than cold approach or social circle. I'd give it a go more seriously. How was the format different than speed dating? Was there a particular activity or event format they used that you really liked?

There is truth to this mindset but be careful with the lack of nuance in it. Dating is a market. If you don't cater to what customers want you are unattractive by default. My default desired strategy is I stay at home in my pyjamas and hot women from all over the city and the world come and beg to fuck me. That strategy does not seem to work. I get much more success when I respect myself but still cater to the desires and needs of the women I want to invite into my life. @Monster Energy Test it. Who knows until you try it and see if you get the desired results from the women you're attracted to.

@WonderSeeker Sounds good my man. I see RSD Luke is following you, have you worked with him in the past? He's definitely the dating mentor I've learned the most from in terms of meeting people everywhere I go.

Not his wife his girlfriend that he’s been dating for 8 months, as in the standard honeymoon relationship. That’s one level that trickles down to every aspect of their relationship. He won’t feel understood and seen, they’ll have different goals and long term vision for their lives , they’ll value different aspect of communication, etc. It’s basically the difference between finding your best friend vs some chill person that accepts you. It’s not a small detail, to me that would be like a 60% miss-match. I didn't date them long term but I have two FWBs that were comfortable and loving when I hung out with them for a few months. To me that's the start of abundance. If you do your pick up journey properly you should have that in abundance. There is something to be said about being more in appreciation and lowering your threshold for stimulation but I wouldn't conflate that with having low dating experience and standards. We are blessed to be living in times where we can explore dating more abundantly than pretty much any of our ancestors, I wouldn't default to settling for the first woman that accepts you as being a wise answer.

Makes sense. Have you tried dating since then? I'd be curious how your new re-centering affected that process

Right but you didn’t answer my question why don’t you think you deserve a 10/10 partner? It is because you know you are slacking on your dating and social development and thus probably can’t attract one so you should be thankful for what you get? Not trying to be rude I think it’s a helpful dichotomie to investigate I have spent a lot of years working on my dating life to fit my standards and the people that don’t from what I’m seeing are getting predictably mediocre results. It's not something to be ashamed about but I would seriously advice working on it and fixing it so you feel confident in the world's abundance in that aspect.

I’m committed to levelling up—both professionally and socially as well as fixing my emotional and communication issues. I’m also building a fun, abundant lifestyle to invite high-standard partners into. I don't think people with high standards are shallow; I'd say it's actually a sign of depth and maturity. People that haven't worked on themselves tend to have shallow criteria and low standards.

@Asayake Out of 10 what quality of partner do you think you deserve? If you answer anything other than 10 you're low self-esteem or lazy in my books. It makes a lot of these situations easy to diagnose. Person is settling -> doesn't understand how to become more attractive/believe that that they can't become more attractive/their subconscious runs an equation that they're not willing to put enough energy to improve themselves Only really 3 options If you're not looking to maximize your love life, what exactly are you optimizing for? If your core strategy in life isn't about self-actualizing your relationships and purpose, you're just default-optimizing for comfort and derping through life.

I mean the historical version is just an extreme example of class warfare. Need more capital -> Go invade a foreign land -> Kill and enslave the men -> Take their women You can argue it's still what's happening today just with lower stakes. I think a harem is a really great idea and setup. You're motivated to work hard as a man and you get femininine women that revolve around you and live with you. I'm working on scaling my business to have the cashflow to support a polycule by myself. I think having your women with with you on your business is the peak possible lifestyle.

I argued for greater compatibility, you're straw manning my point by saying it was mostly about short term pleasure and adventure. Having a lot of sex and FWBs for example is a way to learn more about what you want but not the only way. The reason I posted my posts as an clear archetype is so basically give a theory for Pattrick to identify with. If he was not a new traveller and been in Indonesia for 10 years already and had been with different women during that time then he could easily diagnose that my advice doesn't make sense and he's having another issue than just being for the first time in a dating market that's favourable to him. > The problem is the intellectual gap. Her English is limited, though improving, and she has little natural interest in introspection, personal development, or complex ideas. I could get intellectual stimulation from friends, but it still hurts that I cannot share that part of myself with the person I would spend most of my life with. I worry that, over time, I would feel deeply lonely inside the relationship. In my experience in the dating that miss-match in MBTI types would produce a result similar to what OP described. To me I've had that experience myself plenty of times as an INTP where people either completely zone out of my ideas and I have to bring it back to something they said to get their entertainment, some people who like discussing ideas at length and some people who are willing to entertain ideas up to a point. I don't think I could myself be able to live in a relationship with a person of the first type and the 2nd type perhaps in a polyamorous setup where I'm in abundance so I they don't have to entertain my ideas they can see the result and the 3rd type would be main primary partner potential in a hierarchal polyamorous setup or for a monogamous paradigm a good compatibility pairing. The pushback against leaving often comes from a scarcity mindset in my experience. There are reasons to fight for commitment but at the end of the honeymoon phase with the symptoms OP described it seems like a clear next and explore what's out there more instead of doubling down. A doubling down case for me would be like you have dated a lot and know what you want and have found it but there are slight incompatibilities like you live in different countries and it seems like it would be an inconvenience to move for her but she has a good reason to stay like close with family and wants their help in raising your future kids and you know she's what you're looking for because you have dated similar types and she fits all the boxes apart from a sacrifice that you are okay with making if you introspect on it.

Cool thanks for sharing. It sounds like a great event format. Will you try it again?

@Patrick_9931 Thanks for the update. No shame in getting hooked on love even if it's based out of comfort more than growth. The good part is that the upside in this hero's journey is potentially endless. What women have to offer you as a man is basically unlimited and now that you've experienced this perhaps you'll experience with other forms of relationships. For myself I'm also still exploring my options and will give polyamory a go soon. Will be also starting a world tour starting in January this year hopefully and seeing what the world and the women in it have to offer. I would give social circle game a go if I were you, it's how you find women that are highly compatible with you and fit specific niches and interests so for me I like business, finance and game design and I've hosted my first fashion show event last year that was probably one of the best days of my life. I host photoshoots and group diners as well. It's important to try different types to see what you like. I've met some really cool women over the past couple of years and the quality I tend to be able to attract seems to only be going up. https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/18036783041423983/

Obviously have authentic hobbies but getting girls is a legitimate hobby and pursuit. Women are interwoven to our world so tighly that figuring them out teaches you most of what you need to learn about reality. Plenty of things I wouldn't partake in if there were no reward of women and status involved. It's like Disney World bro, dudes take their kids and girl to Disney World not because they would go by themselves but because it makes for a cool combined experience for all involved.

It's true. I like mature women and milfs a lot but a lot of popular culture seems to be against older women. Mimetic desire is an interesting phenomenon, it talks about how we get most of our desires from other people either due to validation seeking, wanting status or I mean even in a self-exploration way it's a pretty valid way to figure out stuff through other people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimetic_theory Relativity is really a complex thing.

@Jirh Also keep in mind looksmatching which basically makes you attracted to people you think you have a chance with. Your ego doesn’t like to lust after someone they don’t think they can get especially if you haven’t gotten past rejection anxiety.

I want to pivot to online consulting services and have a few high ticket clients instead of working with people locally. I had one client that basically funded my lifestyle for a year while in Calgary so if I can replicate that online with a few more I’ll be set.

Watching his newest video right now For me it's hitting me hard how I need to get my finances in order and finally become financially independent now that I'm 31. I thought I would've made it a long time ago. Not a lot of people that I know ended up becoming successful let alone particularly happy. This stuff is hard, stage orange is no joke.

@Jordan of the Shire Do you mind sharing with us what's happened since you left that relationship? Were you not able to find other people that you were more aligned with?

Here are my ideas 1) In general at around the 9 month mark is when the honeymoon phase of a relationship ends and people tend to see each other accurately. You can feel free to try harder when it gets hard but if you're having core incompatibilities it's gonna be hard to move past that. This is why I offered the MBTI idea so OP can literally test himself and see if his personality and his partner are more or less compatibles and decide if he wants to move forward as he fishes. There are other frameworks like the big 5 where trait openness compatibility is also important in partners. 2) Usually people that don't have a lot of options have a scarcity mindset. I've detailed one archetype that OP could fall into i.e. OP being a western dude who wasn't particularly successful in his dating life in the west moving to Indonesia and then hitched himself with the first could he could. That is an assumption that can be wrong but seems like it fits in the profile in my experience. We can't really go further than this in our assumptions before OP gives me more detail. 3) It would make sense that people with not a lot of abundance that are in scarcity would he more heavily skew towards trying to make something work that's not incompatible because they have low standards. That seems harsh but that's how abundance works in any competitive market. If you have not a low of job offers you're gonna accept something that's not as great as someone who has many other offers that can afford to be pickier in his or her decisions. You never made a point that contradicts this you just said that you think being risk adverse would make this decision difficult. I've explained why this mindset is not optimal in my view and consistent with someone with in a position of scarcity as opposed to being wise.

@Schizophonia I hope you're now gonna make this hinge account ASAP. There is a funny parallel that I read in Cal Newport's book so good they can't ignore you where when you're about to break free of the wage slavery of 9-5 there will be a random force like your boss clamping down on you to make it more difficult. God seems to present us with resistance when we are about to level up to test if we really want to become more powerful or abundant or if we are not ready yet.