LordFall

Yes I think I understand your position. You're saying that spiral dynamics is too intellectual to be a truly accurate model of reality/enlightenment for all humans? I sort of agree but I think perhaps that doesn't invalidate it but it does show some limitations to the model. Perhaps not all humans are capable of highly advanced cognitive development, certainly not all biological creatures are right? To me where yellow and turquoise make a lot of sense is that they are more complete versions of seeing the world. It seems pretty obvious to me that tier 1 stages are myopic in their understanding of the world. Orange is more rational and effective than blue but selfish and destructive if it lacks the kindness and empathy of green. Green is more holistic but is quite limited in its perspective and always thinks they are right and has a massive blindspot as to the utility of stage orange so its not a really effective stage. Yellow seems to be the first stage where people are really able to question their own judgement and even if they find themselves being right can understand the perspective of others at lower stages whereas green for example views people that disagree with it as corrupt or evil and orange sees people that disagree with it as dumb or ineffective. Turquoise takes it a step deeper and understands that there is a flow to the universe and different beings are meant to experience the world in different ways and that's what the universe and consciousness is. I think a lot of stage turquoise gurus seem to have found themselves in the flow of the universe aren't really systematic people but they intuit through meditation or whatever way they found to understand the multi-perspectival nature of life and how they are just one of the many perspectives experiencing reality without having the intellectual rigor to really break it down into a science.

Fair enough, looking forward to seeing it!

Also bro perhaps you're simply experiencing sour grapes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes We talked about this yesterday and you dismissed pickup as just another addiction. I think this post unearthed a deeper layer to your psychology though. It seems that you swung from hardcore porn addict to I guess a celibate nofapper? You didn't elaborate on your life but I assume you don't have a girlfriend? I was way more bitter against women before I slept with a bunch of them through game. I lost my virginity at 18 and in my mid teens the thought literally occurred to me that sex was a cosmic joke played against me and it wasn't really a real thing. It sounds a bit silly but when you fuck a bunch of chicks and just lay down cuddle with them and engage in deep pillow talk then you realize you're not that different and their different life strategies are just a function of their social goals. Also when you start to build big things and put effort in your life it starts to become really obvious that the average man doesn't offer much value and so it becomes a bit normal to be aloof to them which might read as mean or almost evil from the point of view of the people that feel like they're being cold shouldered.

How do you figure you're not the one that's confused then? It almost seems like we're talking about the sky is blue situation. To have a serious conversation we have to agree that there isn't really such a thing as the sky and we're talking about ozone layers which appear blue but are not really definitively so. You don't need to be an academic to find data that backs your conclusions otherwise you're just venting your feelings and claiming to have access to truth. You can ask any AI model to prove or disprove your ideas and find relevant studies to reference. I don't honestly think you'll find some that will validate your conclusion that masculinity and femininity are immutable traits.

@aurum Got it and what are the conclusions in your project based on in terms of hard data? I'm quite familiar with the big five personality and MBTIs. The closest thing that I can think to map to femininity/masculinity is the dichotomy between feeling types and logic types in MBTI but we still didn't define what we mean by both of those spectrums so it's hard to make definitive conclusions. Some people seem to me to have a multi-perspectival way of viewing the world without being particularly analytical and relying mostly on their intuition over hard logic so your answer of no seems a bit too definitive here. I don't understand why this conclusion makes sense to you. If spiral dynamics is a model made to map cognitive development why would an ability to systemize reality either intuitively or logically being required to achieve tier 2 invalidate the model? The whole point of the model is that it's made for the most cognitive animal on earth or constructs like social groups or entire societies which in and of themselves operate as massive cognition engines.

I would be very curious on your deeper thoughts on it. I think perhaps you just don't understand the concept enough? Tier 1 sees the world only from its own perspective. Tier 2 starts having a multi-perspectival experience of reality. Stage Yellow is an intellectual experience and Stage Turquoise an existential experience where your sense of self and the illusion of duality literally melts apart. It makes a lot of sense to me. Have you had any mystical experiences or dabbled with psychedelics? I think if you only understand spirituality from an intellectual perspective it would be hard to really grasp and believe in spiral dynamics.

Mommy?

Yes I see fashion more as a function not really the way I think about self-expression. If I'm trying to look good and attract women I have a go to going out outfit and when I stay in for periods of time I tend to just wear sweatpants and a t shirt. I think fashion is really interesting in terms of signalling theory and how people treat you drastically differently based on how you present. Craziest example is when I look nerdy with my glasses and then switch to grey contacts and trim my beard and I go from being not that relevant to women to women eyeing me often and giving me compliments.

Riding this guy is considered therapy? It's over boys Leave some for the rest of us bro

Well, we need to define terms to have a proper discourse around the subject. What do you even mean by masculinity and femininity? Why are you strongly against it? Do you have some research that backs up this sentiment or it's more of a lived experienced type of thing? I think humans can present different fronts depending on the environment they're in and yes they can present as quite masculine in one context and more feminine in another. Sometimes a personality is quite consistent in all environments but perhaps for example let's take a very stoic and unemotional man. I would argue that personality type is more of a function of having to be strong and unreactive in the situations that they're in over a core unchangeable personality trait. Being a feminine flamboyant man is gonna be a less successful life strategy in the favelas of Brazil over the streets of San Francisco or Toronto. @Joshe Spiral dynamics tier 2 is not merely about having a predisposition towards systems thinking. It's more of an identity and way of relating to the world. Have you watched the videos on tier Yellow and Turquoise and the applications of spiral dynamics?

I hope that you're a better man than backhanded insults. There is no need to get triggered. I was merely pointing to the fact that to have a chance in hell of making a polyamorous relationship work then an ethical non-monogamy framework is your best bet. You're clearly one of the smartest people we have on this forum.

Phoebe Gates and her roommate Sophia Kianni co-founded an app called Phia which helps shoppers save money while shopping by scanning the internet for coupons. They raised $35,000,000 in January 2026 at a $185M valuation after it now coming out that in December they were aware and authorized a cookie stuffing feature basically making it so when you install their browser app any purchase you make is credited to them. The Kardashians, Paris Hilton, Hailey Bieber, Alix Earle and Sheryl Sanberg apparently invested in her business. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-08-11/phia-app-co-founders-pushed-for-features-taking-credit-for-sales-it-didn-t-drive The funniest part is Elizabeth Holmes who was imprisoned for fraud after her own company Theranos was exposed as lying to the investors and the public, supporting her and agreeing that it's probably just a bug that she didn't know about it. This is like one of the only people in the world that can cause your credibility to tank if they support you lol I think as students of self-actualizing and life purpose it's a great example to show that taking the easy way out is well EASY. Solving hard problems for people takes a tremendous amount of insight into the world and what would actually improve peoples lives. Let alone taking that insight and turning it into a commercially viable enterprise. Much easier to come up with an app that actually scams the world than sit down and work 10x harder to help elevate it. Just to make clear how Cookie Stuffing works (what her company Phia is accused and well guilty of since they just turned it off and it lowered their revenue by over 50%), lets say you click on a fashion influencer's link after she shows you a new t shirt you wanna buy. If you have phia on your device they will get paid and not that fashion influencer, it's fraud and basically theft. It's exactly what Paypal Honey was exposed for last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookie_stuffing They also have a podcast where they interview actually successful founders which makes it harder to run away from the irony She's only 23 and with fucking Bill Gates footing her legal bill it's doubtful she'll face any legal consequences. Her older Jennifer Gates is a equestrian so I guess she wanted to avoid the rich girl hobby and wanted to prove herself and build something. It'll be interesting to see 10 years down the line if she learns from this and starts something the right way next time or just learns that entrepreneurship is too hard for her and pivots to being just a socialite social media influencer.

Why not? Anybody can point out behaviours that seem problematic in their view. If you have too much ego to take it to heart and reflect on it, that's on you.

Seems like you have quite a shallow view of the world. Why do you care about being embarrassed? Especially as Bill Gates the ex richest man of the world lol. I'm more concerned about why he raised his kids with the self confidence of a deflated balloon to the point that she felt she had to do this to prove herself to the world. Gary Vee talks about self-esteem constantly, Bill should've watched a few of his videos.

Haven't played it. A good mix of both is nice. You ever play Dead Space? I fucking hate getting lost in a video game so that one literally you a line indicator or where to go so you could wander off and explore and when you got bored the line would take you back to the main story. I really enjoyed that model.

I think it produces short-term results but medium term and long term you've built your life on a house of cards. I'm trying to push you towards deeper introspection so you can avoid repeating mistakes. This mindset has served me well personally. I do enjoy your wild stories, I just want you to be able to build your dream dating life brother. That has been a decade plus long quest for me so I'm quite passionate about helping others achieve it for themselves.

Gamescom is on until tomorrow, you guys seen stuff you like? This game looks fucking sweet, they describe it as a first person soulslike but looks like a spiritual successor to Bioshock to me. They did me well as a history nerd, you incarnate as a revived soldier of Napoleon Bonaparte's army. I've also never played the Witcher games so would love to try out the Witcher 3 remake. Seems similar to the type of vibes I want for my own game. I don't have a gaming PC right now so might have to pickup a PS5 in a few months. This one looks pretty cool too

You seem to enjoy taking shortcuts in dating as opposed to taking the long harder way but more stable my friend!

Yes I like to analyze my life with AI and it can spot your blindspots pretty well. If you have some courage you can ask it why do you think I have these blindspots and what effects would you predict these to have on my life and it will usually nail your life problems and give you a pretty good basis for deeper introspection. For me seeing it written down in detail helps a lot, if I tried to entangle my own psychology then a lot of times just unpleasant feelings come up with no easy explanation for them so I tend to just avoid that and move on with my day. Meditation is cool because it feels like the subconscious mind just processes the emotions for you while you skip the conscious awareness of it.

Yes business models have a lot in common and if you study the mechanisms, they're creative ways to solve common problems that human face. It's generally best to try and solve a problem you have interest in. That's why I went into dating photography since I just replicated what worked for me and sold photoshoots to other men and it did pretty well. I actually tried to start a women's beauty brand to build up a female customer base but I had so little interest in it that I stopped after like 3 days. It was called Empress Essence and was gonna be line of different products and themed collections dropping every couple months. I was gonna start with press on nails since the margins on it were insane. Each girl I told about it found it pretty coool, I might get back to it one day but you only have energy for so many different projects in life.

You didn't provide any statistics or even anecdotal evidence to back up what you're saying; just blanket statements. This combined with your post on struggling with porn led me to the conclusion that you are scared of intimacy; it's not a statement out of thin air. Which one of your claims do you feel most strongly about? We can break it down and discuss it more in-depth.

Interesting, where are you that they don't allow imgur? Says that Jeffrey Epstein has no confirmed children and a few women have come forth and tried to claim part of his estate for their kids but nothing has been proven yet. @something_else Yeah totally I've considered all of this already. I think being a business owner with a profitable business makes the whole thing way more viable than just having a career and trying to manage the job market and probably getting fired with AI over the next 10 years and a big household. I'm working towards that daily. Ideally I would see myself buying a place next to a big city but a bit removed to build my household. Probably in Europe somewhere warm or SEA since I really hate the cold. To me it sounds like quite an interest way to live your life. This is the most complex scenario possible with having kids with all 4 women. I would like to get there but a lot of polyamorous couples have kids with their partner and girlfriends that can live in the house but no kids or don't even live on the same propriety. I'll see how my life develops and which type of polyamory I end up falling into.

Wow yeah that would be fucked up. Doesn't seem like he has kids though

I'm simply guiding you towards deeper insight regarding behaviouralism and what constitutes accurate green or red flags. Yes, I like calibrated and in demand women so I'm sure they'll end up in clubs at some point. I also like introverted women so perhaps I'll end up with one of each. My dating strategy revolves around building my life up to the point where that factor doesn't really threaten the stability of my relationships.