LordFall

@something_else My main issue is people using Stage Green talking points as an ego defence to justify their own lack of efficiency. I think you've made good points around classifying those people more as Stage Blue people grasping at Stage Orange rather than actually Stage Green. I think that leads to idealism and their points although perhaps having a surface of validity are fundamentally naive, inefficient and shallow. Healthy Stage Green would look like an individual with a productive relationship to the economy that uses his extra time to help social causes. If we're looking in terms of an organization it would be one that changes its goals from being about profit motive to now being about productive betterment of mankind. Perhaps like a Soup Kitchen or an engineering firm focused on sustainable energy. I would say both the individual and organization cross into Stage Yellow when they are able to use powerful societal systems to bring massive leverage to their cause and decouple their output from mere human energy. In other words actually developing the tools to fix the problems as opposed to just identifying them and voicing them out or crying about them if you wanted to be less charitable. If we are to bring it back to Communism since we talked about it before, it would make sense to classify it as a movement with Stage Green ideals but that failed to get past Stage Blue due to its rejection of Stage Orange. It thus got nowhere close to the Stage Yellow efficiency that would've been needed to transform society to the degree that they were aiming at.

@Natasha Tori Maru glad you enjoy his writing as well! There aren't many authors that produce similar work to his; truly fascinating books. I assume that's the part that subconsciously scares a lot of people. I've also seen a lot of feedback saying they dislike his historical anecdotes and the reader would've enjoyed a more to the point type of narrative. Which seems a bit silly to me since both there are a lot of books that do have this dry and straight to the point writing style and the historical context tie in is what I find to be one of the most valuable aspect of his work. Yeah I would agree for 48 Laws of Power and Laws of Human Nature. Haven't read 33 Strategies but I've read the 50th Law, his book co-written with 50 cent, I thought that one was similarly quite good. What didn't you enjoy about Mastery? I thought it was quite profound and I enjoy some stuff he wrote about like going back to your childhood genuine interests for clues for your life purpose. It definitely lacked the practicality of some more direct books like Alex Hormozi's books on business for example but I think his aim was to be esoteric and not a how to guide.

Of course. You also don't have to be a master programmer to use AI effectively for a few processes inside of your business. AI is also good at allowing for more remote work due to being able to dictate to your phone and have something like Claude work behind the scenes while you're on a hike for example. It's like asking if business is possible without the internet; yes there are plenty of shops that don't have social media or any web presence today. It limits their scaling potential but they can make a living just fine.

Yeah I think it's phenomenal, I'm about halfway through it so far. It's much more brutal than 48 Laws of Power into dissecting the ego. Whereas 48 Laws of Power is more about figuring out how the outside world works, this one is more about how the mind works and plays tricks on you and how character traits like narcissism and anxiety form and how attitude has made and broken famous people in history. I'm gonna finish it over the next month and then more than likely to pickup a copy of The Law of the Sublime.

Seems like he went through his own Eckhart Tolle like experience being stuck in his backyard for 7 years after having a stroke and ended up seeing life in a new light and writing this book. Looks like a banger, I'm excited to read it. By listening him to talk about it, the main idea seems to be about enjoyment of the present moment and being able to enjoy the sublime simplicity of life. He breaks it down into 12 areas that he feels represent most the concept. He's probably my favorite author of all time so I'm very excited to see how he mixes his usual practicality and historical prose with a more spiritual topic. Interesting to see him go from more achievement-based topics to a more esoteric inquiry with the one before that being a Marcus Aurelius type book on his 366 Meditations and before that reflecting on human nature and now the sublime nature of existence itself.

What about the right-wing appeals to to you?

Scandinavia is actually a great example here, but it proves my point. In fact, you could argue the Nordic model is operating at a Stage Yellow level because it doesn't reject Orange at all and fully integrates it in its many efficient systems. Instead of treating Stage Orange market dynamics as a "necessary evil" to be moralized against or constrained, which is how First-Tier Green operates, they take a Second-Tier Yellow approach and intentionally harness market mechanics as the foundational energy engine that makes a complex high-stage social safety net possible. Sweden, Denmark, and Norway rank among the most free-market, pro-business, and high-innovation economies in the world. They don't bypass Orange productivity or bash enterprise; they built massive, efficient market engines specifically so they can actually afford a Green social safety net. Synthesizing Orange economic reality with Green human values into a functional machine is literally systemic thinking. My critique wasn't about productive citizens in social democracies who contribute to a high-output society. I'm talking about the super common trend of people using Green anti-system talking points as an ego defense and often using "the system is evil" as a cope to avoid doing the hard work of building a useful skillset, discipline, and leverage in their own lives. I don't think the average left leaning westerner is firmly Stage Green with a well integrated Stage Green. I think they are exactly the Blue/Orange/Green hybrid monstrosity that you call a stereotype. Meaning being mostly talk and virtue signalling and not very effective people.

It shouldn't be about worshipping with money but being a very effective human being that offers a lot of value to his or her society and thus gets paid very well and gets to build the lifestyle they choose on their terms. 90% of people never get there and end up living life in economic scarcity.

I find that 80% of people with a Stage Green mindset I see online or encounter don't see to have Stage Orange properly integrated at all. Do you really know a lot of activist minded people that have a solid grasp of business and the economy and have plans that make sense to further the cause they champion? Most people I see that point out social problems and seem really passionate about them, once I start to ask questions about how do we solve this go silent or say stuff that makes 0 sense. @Ulax Straight up. It's realistically more like 95% than 80% that seem to have not much inkling of Stage Orange or Stage Yellow in their perspective. Of course it depends which subset of Stage Green people you interact with. If you go to an ecoengineering convention then I would assume that the attendees would be much more solutions oriented than the average activist. Stage Green people almost always throw the baby away with the bathwater in terms of their Stage Orange perspective and start to view everything as oppression and fall straight into the victim mindset trap. They rarely are able to band together and do anything productive and at best will go to a protest(but not one that they organized themselves.) You could also view it as people coming from Stage Blue and wanting to build an identity outside of the mainstream and once they get to Stage Orange and they look at the mountain of productivity required to actually become an independent being in modern society, they bypass it and adopt Stage Green talking points and start blaming billionaires for their problems. It's hard to say but either way it leads to the same result of people complaining a lot about the injustices of the world without doing much to build a skillset that would give them the leverage over the marketplace necessary to impact their own life and society as a whole. I find that it helps me tremendously in understanding where the people I'm talking to are coming from and seeing what type of advice might actually help their perspective. Otherwise I run into the problem of offering some piece of advice that seems very reasonable to me and the objections that I got made no sense until I filtered them through spiral dynamics then it started to make so much sense and I've been able to understand the mental blocks of the individuals I'm dealing with.

Yeah I think purely casual is also boring and draining, I like in middle and have had a few friends with benefits. That was a good time and more enjoyable than one night stands. Relationships are great but can be too restrictive and it's also hard to find the exact type that you wanna be in unless you explore casually beforehand. It's also important to have a vetting system that sorts the people you get involved with so that they're compatible with you, not unhinged and attractive enough for your taste. Important as a man but VERY important for women.

I feel like calling a spade a spade is very efficient in terms of basing a conversation on truth as opposed to feelings. I'm telling you, if you keep looking for it on this forum and in society Stage Green talking points become very obvious. The biggest litmus test is they don't have a solution baked into their viewpoint. They share what is often a very valid viewpoint in terms of what concerns them but they don't make the leap towards understanding the system that governs the situation and thus lack problem solving in their perspective. @Natasha Tori Maru @Ulax Yes, epistemology is a great field of study to really go deep on spiritual ideas. I've had a lot of conversations with religious folks about religion and usually their answers are very shallow and turn condescending very quickly and it shows they haven't done an honest inquiry. I had a 30 min talk about a friend of my dad about Islam and what he said sounded profound and worth investigating. Then when I asked AI about it, it said that the 3 main points that he brought up are common myths shared on Islam Tiktok/Facebook. I'm open minded and give it a shot but I wonder if he himself has ever bothered to cross check his beliefs or just watches videos that confirm his bias and moves on with his days feeling superior to non believers. @cetus Thank you for sharing your backstory. My aim in calling out your harsh response was not to diminish the wildness of what Majed said. It's just to point out that we can transmute the anger and hate into understanding and provoke hopefully lasting and powerful change in the user. If we just push out people with problematic mindsets out of polite society then that leads to a fragmented world where an escalation of these negative feelings is bound to happen. Anger is good! If met with understanding and channeling then it can embolden a powerful purpose instead of festering into frustration and fantasies of violence that mask feelings of inadequacy and powerlessness. I feel powerless all the times. I've tried meditating over it and it works somewhat. The best antidote I've found though is power building and building the reality I want on my terms. This is why my original replies to Majed were about killing the victim mindset and offering him pure strategy that I think will produce actual results in his life. I think perhaps dating should be pushed to the side of his agenda to focus on autonomy and personal finance though; in hindsight with seeing how the thread developed.

Have you tried it and you felt that was the result or someone indoctrinated you against hookups and you believed them? I've had maybe 30 hookups with chicks I barely knew and it was mostly fun. One of the biggest contributing factors on if I felt good or bad about it over the next few days honestly was if I was really attracted to them or if I let my standards slide just to get laid. Humans are fun and getting to meet new ones and being intimate with them is generally a good time for me.

Yes but a lot of billionaires turn many of their employees into millionaires. Thousands of Meta employees became millionaires by working under Mark for example. There is such a thing as a business structured as a shared ownership cooperative and people do start them but they don't tend to work very well. Yeah but that's mostly due to fiscal policy of the Government and macroeconomics. Not really individual business owners. Which is why I'm excited about socialist figures being empowered in US politics currently.

Very good news to wake up to! Happy about the Texas flip, that's a huge message to send. Do you think billionaires in and of themselves are the problem? For me it's the fact that a lot manage to skirt around the rule of law and it's the corruption and the tax avoidance that hurts the people not really their wealth accumulation. Great business people that build successful enterprises should be rewarded but not stand above the law.

We can only hope! Texas going to a democrat would be a huge move in the right direction especially with it recently absorbing the exodus of all the rich people leaving California.