LordFall

Apothecary diaries is on Netflix, it's quite good. It's about a girl who gets kidnapped into the Chinese Imperial palace and starts out as a regular servant and gets elevated to the inner palace due to her proficiency in herbology, medicine and potion making. All kinds of court intrigues and the grandiosity of Imperial China! The main character is a funny chick who ends up being a detective ala Sherlock Holmes on the palace grounds, quite unique character design.

I don't understand the root of the objection nor do I think the surface level explanation you've offered of it is correct. I'm open to your arguments but it seems perhaps actually you're sitting in that stage green bubble where natural hierarchies make you uncomfortable and you refuse to believe there are innate differences between people? Which I think is the root of your objection but I wouldn't say its correct; the truth is even worse! Most people don't want to grow and improve even if they can. Their limitations are perhaps real but are self-imposed on top of that! I think almost everyone can teach themselves a much higher level of thinking and cognition but it's basically impossible because they don't see the benefit, are too lazy, are too egoistical or maybe just there is legitimately no reason for them to. I have never taught myself astrophysics or how to play Hockey. Maybe I could've been a great hockey player who knows. Rest up, and when your head is clear, feel free to elaborate more on your points. I think it's a worthwhile topic to explore and not just take Leo's word on it. Models can either survive the stress test or by invalidating them we can find an even superior model. To be honest though throughout this exchange so far you've mostly solidified to me how solid the predictive ability of spiral dynamics is.

Yes I think I understand your position. You're saying that spiral dynamics is too intellectual to be a truly accurate model of reality/enlightenment for all humans? I sort of agree but I think perhaps that doesn't invalidate it but it does show some limitations to the model. Perhaps not all humans are capable of highly advanced cognitive development, certainly not all biological creatures are right? To me where yellow and turquoise make a lot of sense is that they are more complete versions of seeing the world. It seems pretty obvious to me that tier 1 stages are myopic in their understanding of the world. Orange is more rational and effective than blue but selfish and destructive if it lacks the kindness and empathy of green. Green is more holistic but is quite limited in its perspective and always thinks they are right and has a massive blindspot as to the utility of stage orange so its not a really effective stage. Yellow seems to be the first stage where people are really able to question their own judgement and even if they find themselves being right can understand the perspective of others at lower stages whereas green for example views people that disagree with it as corrupt or evil and orange sees people that disagree with it as dumb or ineffective. Turquoise takes it a step deeper and understands that there is a flow to the universe and different beings are meant to experience the world in different ways and that's what the universe and consciousness is. I think a lot of stage turquoise gurus seem to have found themselves in the flow of the universe aren't really systematic people but they intuit through meditation or whatever way they found to understand the multi-perspectival nature of life and how they are just one of the many perspectives experiencing reality without having the intellectual rigor to really break it down into a science.

Fair enough, looking forward to seeing it!

Also bro perhaps you're simply experiencing sour grapes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes We talked about this yesterday and you dismissed pickup as just another addiction. I think this post unearthed a deeper layer to your psychology though. It seems that you swung from hardcore porn addict to I guess a celibate nofapper? You didn't elaborate on your life but I assume you don't have a girlfriend? I was way more bitter against women before I slept with a bunch of them through game. I lost my virginity at 18 and in my mid teens the thought literally occurred to me that sex was a cosmic joke played against me and it wasn't really a real thing. It sounds a bit silly but when you fuck a bunch of chicks and just lay down cuddle with them and engage in deep pillow talk then you realize you're not that different and their different life strategies are just a function of their social goals. Also when you start to build big things and put effort in your life it starts to become really obvious that the average man doesn't offer much value and so it becomes a bit normal to be aloof to them which might read as mean or almost evil from the point of view of the people that feel like they're being cold shouldered.

How do you figure you're not the one that's confused then? It almost seems like we're talking about the sky is blue situation. To have a serious conversation we have to agree that there isn't really such a thing as the sky and we're talking about ozone layers which appear blue but are not really definitively so. You don't need to be an academic to find data that backs your conclusions otherwise you're just venting your feelings and claiming to have access to truth. You can ask any AI model to prove or disprove your ideas and find relevant studies to reference. I don't honestly think you'll find some that will validate your conclusion that masculinity and femininity are immutable traits.

@aurum Got it and what are the conclusions in your project based on in terms of hard data? I'm quite familiar with the big five personality and MBTIs. The closest thing that I can think to map to femininity/masculinity is the dichotomy between feeling types and logic types in MBTI but we still didn't define what we mean by both of those spectrums so it's hard to make definitive conclusions. Some people seem to me to have a multi-perspectival way of viewing the world without being particularly analytical and relying mostly on their intuition over hard logic so your answer of no seems a bit too definitive here. I don't understand why this conclusion makes sense to you. If spiral dynamics is a model made to map cognitive development why would an ability to systemize reality either intuitively or logically being required to achieve tier 2 invalidate the model? The whole point of the model is that it's made for the most cognitive animal on earth or constructs like social groups or entire societies which in and of themselves operate as massive cognition engines.

I would be very curious on your deeper thoughts on it. I think perhaps you just don't understand the concept enough? Tier 1 sees the world only from its own perspective. Tier 2 starts having a multi-perspectival experience of reality. Stage Yellow is an intellectual experience and Stage Turquoise an existential experience where your sense of self and the illusion of duality literally melts apart. It makes a lot of sense to me. Have you had any mystical experiences or dabbled with psychedelics? I think if you only understand spirituality from an intellectual perspective it would be hard to really grasp and believe in spiral dynamics.

Mommy?

Yes I see fashion more as a function not really the way I think about self-expression. If I'm trying to look good and attract women I have a go to going out outfit and when I stay in for periods of time I tend to just wear sweatpants and a t shirt. I think fashion is really interesting in terms of signalling theory and how people treat you drastically differently based on how you present. Craziest example is when I look nerdy with my glasses and then switch to grey contacts and trim my beard and I go from being not that relevant to women to women eyeing me often and giving me compliments.

Riding this guy is considered therapy? It's over boys Leave some for the rest of us bro

Well, we need to define terms to have a proper discourse around the subject. What do you even mean by masculinity and femininity? Why are you strongly against it? Do you have some research that backs up this sentiment or it's more of a lived experienced type of thing? I think humans can present different fronts depending on the environment they're in and yes they can present as quite masculine in one context and more feminine in another. Sometimes a personality is quite consistent in all environments but perhaps for example let's take a very stoic and unemotional man. I would argue that personality type is more of a function of having to be strong and unreactive in the situations that they're in over a core unchangeable personality trait. Being a feminine flamboyant man is gonna be a less successful life strategy in the favelas of Brazil over the streets of San Francisco or Toronto. @Joshe Spiral dynamics tier 2 is not merely about having a predisposition towards systems thinking. It's more of an identity and way of relating to the world. Have you watched the videos on tier Yellow and Turquoise and the applications of spiral dynamics?

I hope that you're a better man than backhanded insults. There is no need to get triggered. I was merely pointing to the fact that to have a chance in hell of making a polyamorous relationship work then an ethical non-monogamy framework is your best bet. You're clearly one of the smartest people we have on this forum.

Why not? Anybody can point out behaviours that seem problematic in their view. If you have too much ego to take it to heart and reflect on it, that's on you.

Seems like you have quite a shallow view of the world. Why do you care about being embarrassed? Especially as Bill Gates the ex richest man of the world lol. I'm more concerned about why he raised his kids with the self confidence of a deflated balloon to the point that she felt she had to do this to prove herself to the world. Gary Vee talks about self-esteem constantly, Bill should've watched a few of his videos.