LordFall

There is no revision. When a product offers no value to a consumer, nobody is claiming the object ceases to exist at an atomic level—it means it fails to produce a functional benefit, and maintaining it costs more than it delivers. That is what a net drain is. You’re taking this far more personally than it was ever meant, but it worked as intended: you are supposed to want to produce value, and you are supposed to fiercely defend your ability to do so. When I challenge people like this, I don’t want them to collapse into victimhood—I want them to push back, build competence, and fight. I’m not here to be your caring mother. I’m here to share what I’ve learned about how the world actually operates and challenge men to step up in ways that genuinely matter to society. I think it's good for them, good for the women in their lives and good for our species as a whole. You conceded that "low value" isn't a mathematical zero. Good. That leaves only the real question: does what you produce actually create abundance and solve problems for anyone, or does your existence simply consume bandwidth while breaking even? Bring your case to the stream on Sunday at 8 PM EST. Let’s see what that value looks like off the forum.

There is something terribly pathological about Reddit mods. It's like its the only power in life they've had and they love to ban people for any slight deviance from the subreddit hive mind. It used to be better years ago but as I think these people have grown into their position the standards for conversations have dropped more and more. I can't think of a worse place on the Internet to have a serious conversation. When people complain about AI slop it's one of the examples that comes to my mind in terms of much more useless human slop.

I don't think you understand how arguments work so I'll give you a hint. Low value does not mean absolute zero; it means failing to meet the baseline standards of competence, agency, and leadership that define a high-impact man. A penny has value, but you can't buy dinner with it. If your strategy is gonna be to prove to us that you're worth at least a penny then I think indeed you will manage to do that. If that satisfies you in terms of your own existence then I will say you've already lost long before we ever exchanged a single word.

You literally talked about 'saving the world' and playing power games—semantics aside, the implication was obvious. Save the rest of your psychoanalysis for Sunday. Let’s see how your standalone points hold up live on air.

Let's be intellectually honest here. My main point was being in a position to offer value to others. You tried to bait me into sounding delusional and admitting I have a messiah complex. Which I don't particularly but I still played into your point because I do believe that being competent at solving your own and others problem is key to life especially as a man. If my impact scales to a worldwide level and even beyond to the point that I can help mankind as a whole then once again, it would be my pleasure to try my best help us get to our next stage of evolution.

@yetineti Even better.

@yetineti takes me up on my offer to have a live streamed conversation on our disagreements about what makes a man valuable. It'll be streamed live this Sunday 8 pm EST on my Youtube channel. Feel free to come up with questions for us to answer and we'll address them on air.

A lot of guys have egos and think that game is beneath them. So you're sort of proving my point. You know people only so much until you get intimate with them. People that have low confidence and self-concept tend to be bitter and resentful and it comes up in all kinds of unpredictable ways. That's why the adage is be careful of people that can't attract women. There is basically always something nasty beyond the surface otherwise it would be a self-correction problem. Women are not that complicated.

You're delusional and love to evade points. When pushed you use AI to make the points for you and when I still sit down to counter them, your ego can't take it and you have a meltdown. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. You do not bring much value to conversation and highly intellectual topics seem to be above your grasp and lead to you getting overly emotional.

I think we could be getting there fast. The epstein files blew a lid on it and it's hard to burrow the fact that elites are above the law and commit unspeakable crimes now. Massive amounts of people are investigating it further as we speak and AI will only help their investigative possibilities. Exciting time to be alive. I think realistically we will enter a massive golden age of humanity if not in the 2030s in the 2040s and beyond. Which is hilarious because the global sentiment is quite pessimistic at the moment. There is a WW3 possibility looming but I believe we can either avoid it or get through it and come out better, stronger and more united as a species.

We can go point by point, that's fine. My thesis assumes an omnipotent God. If you want to put limits on God in your argument then fine but that goes against most definitions of God. Doesn't mean it's not valid but that's not really what you've claimed so far. I wouldn't call it a motive, it's a description of a phenomenon. If God sees people being people suffering and its not that relevant to him that's by definition boredom. Enjoyment from an omnipotent being would lead to increasing the frequency of something since you find it valuable and I guess enjoyable. I didn't only present those possibilities in the thread, I said perhaps God finds it valuable to reality. Nobody made a credible defence of that point and I don't think it makes much sense so I didn't focus on it. That's absolutely possible. We cannot use that to make base our live out of though. At least not without evidence pointing towards it. That's like saying why don't we encourage murder because perhaps there is a good reason for it since it's allowed in reality. It's a demonstrably false point though. Not every human that has lived has been literally tortured. There could've been a single instance of torture in all of history and it never happen again and that would fit the standard that every possible experience can occur. I'm asking why suffering happens at such high frequency ubiquitously throughout mankind Just because I don't fold to propositions that go against mine doesn't mean I haven't entertained them. I have gone through every single one. I could still be biased and ultimately wrong but I haven't seen evidence to support that fact. No.

That’s two posts of deflection , but not a single counter-argument. What I’m using is basic abductive reasoning, inferring the most plausible explanation from observable facts, paired with a simple deductive dilemma. You claim there are "other possibilities," yet you haven't named one. You claim suffering "fundamentally does not exist," which isn't metaphysics—it's an unfalsifiable evasion that deletes the data point to protect the premise. If you have an actual ontological model that accounts for biological agony without retreating into solipsism, sadism, or pretending pain is imaginary, articulate the premises. Otherwise, the condescension just reads as an admission that you don't have an answer but are too arrogant to simply admit it.

Great insight. I think psychosomatic symptoms are very real and we're in a dark period of knowledge in terms of understanding it. Also society is very in favour of suppressing your emotions for the sake of social cohesion and harmony. That has a lot of benefits but we need to be honest about the drawbacks. I'm suffering from back pain as well and I do tend to suppress my anger a lot so I will give that book a go, thanks for sharing. I have massive amounts of rage that I struggle to transmute into useful energy so I feel like I lose 40% of my energy daily by just suppressing it so it doesn't go out of control.

I did not create reality. Did you? The 3rd option is that reality created itself through the big bang or another far fetched idea if you wanna go down the atheistic route. Therefore suffering is not personal and doesn't fit the criteria for sadism. If that's your claim then fine but I would argue against that line of reasoning in many ways that I think invalidate it. The 4th option is that God created reality. Now we're discussing why he put so much suffering in it. Is it for a fundamental good reason of progress? Maybe but I haven't seen a convincing argument for it yet. An unsettling but very plausible reality is that God is similar to how he was described in the old testament and has a very cruel streak and likes to test mortals and is therefore by definition sadistic. I have not seen a rebuttal to that claim that holds up to scrutiny in this thread. Leo had a good video on the dark side of love that points towards reality behind partly ruthless by design. I think that makes sense but there are plot holes to that theory which is what I'm inquiring about.

I don't think I'm misunderstanding anything. If that's the case feel free to explain how. Have you simply considered that you're wrong and close minded to my point? I've considered that I'm wrong and close minded to your point. After thinking about it, I don't see any evidence pointing towards that fact. You can see how what you're saying is foolish and doesn't make sense right? It's not only a bad faith argument but delusional. If you want to argue that reality doesn't exist then I don't know you're lost and on your own by your own definition. Good luck. How so? @Xonas Pitfall I don't mean to be rude, I don't think it makes logical sense to entertain a bad argument if it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I wouldn't use this level of rhetoric in a "How was your day?" thread. I don't your last counters make much sense. Do you really honestly or are you honestly parroting a Leo video without having thought much about it? I've thought a lot on these concepts, I don't take them at face value. Clearly God can maintain compartments that are extremely stable since he has put very specific conditions for us to be experience wobbly reality like intentionally consuming psychedelics. Otherwise all humanity would be schizophrenic and there wouldn't really be a human race. The point is that there is a large amount of suffering and that if we understand how to counter it and evolve past it perhaps it will cease to exist for good. I agree with Joseph I enjoy most of my life. There are bitter and resentful parts to my psyche and a lot of that is aimed towards God and that's why I'm asking if he is weak or if he sadistic or if he thinks he has a greater plan that warrants all this suffering. I'm not fully sure of the answer yet, that's what this inquiry is about.