Sea

Lol which is it, more men or more women? Countries like China and India definitely have more men due to selective birth control. The west has more women but I've heard many guys try to use that to imply that men have more value on the dating market and that women should be the ones doing the approaching. But the excess of women comes from their higher life expectancy - there's more elderly women than elderly men. So this stat has no bearing on the dating market. For people of reproductive age, the amount of men and women is for all intents and purposes equal.

If you were in orange or blue, Leo would be strongly encouraging you to empathize with other sentient beings and to get involved in this sort of activism.

There's quite a few examples here already that are below yellow.

@Emerald I know I'm not really a part of this conversation, but to be fair what you're doing does feel an awful lot like a high-pressure sales tactic. There are groups on both the right and the left who tout being uncompromising. Every political group with a strong opinion sees itself as the minority, as the victim. Unless you've got some statistics to back up your claims, I don't think it's fair to assume that centrists are any more susceptible to converting to the right than to the left. EDIT: For clarification, by minority here I mean minority in terms of political thought.

Yes, conservative men would consider themselves good fathers but would they be ok with leaving their children in the hands of another man? Probably not. They see themselves as upstanding family men while seeing a majority of other men as potential pedophiles. It's not hard to see how conservatism led to inequalities in divorce court in the first place. Though there are some feminists who say all men are rapists, which isn't helping either.

It's difficult to understand why she gets misrepresented and vilified so much. Her views are very reasonable. I think her anger is just a reaction to the hate she gets. However, I still believe men need their movement. @Emerald As you said yourself, feminists don't like to address divorce laws as a particular issue. Waiting for feminists to destroy the patriarchy and then waiting for that change to percolate through society is not option. Especially since laws getting more progressive in one area doesn't mean they'll get more progressive in another. For example, there are still some remnants of religion left in modern secular nations. Unless an issue is talked about enough for people to care, it's not going to change.

People are advocating drinking your own urine? Really?

@lmfao Damn, I don't think my mental state is that bad. Yeah, I see the problem, this is a crutch. But I've had this problem for years. It existed even at times when I was exercising regularly and when I was eating very healthy (and my current diet isn't too bad either). The only thing mentioned on this thread that I've never done is neurofeedback.

All he has been told in essence is that attraction is random and out of his control. How is it even possible to "use" that information for anything?

I feel Leo did a good job with it, it helped clear some of my misconceptions. Btw, I remember in one of the first videos on spiral dynamics Leo said that most people are two stages below where they think they are. Does this apply only to people's first impression after learning of spiral dynamics, or is it more common? Reflecting on that after the recent videos, it seems like a freaky rule.

If that's true then ascending to Green is not that difficult.

It's not so much the ideas of green I have a problem with, I can see where they are coming from with many of their points. It's their methods. Various green groups seem to be out of control, they're prepared to use as much violence as they can get away with to advance their agenda. Even if their agenda has some merit, the use of violence turns me off so much. However, someone like Bill Gates for example I can fully resonate with (from what I've seen).

@Emerald That's a very informative and comprehensive post, thank you.

@Scholar "Mostly yellow and partly green" - yellow is above green so wouldn't that make her more conscious? Or do you mean orange?

@Scholar That sounds like a No True Scotsman fallacy. Here is a video of Lierre Keith, she was both vegan and an ardent feminist (still is the latter afaik, I hope this this is enough to show she's in green), but ceased to be vegan due to deteriorating health:

Yeah, and Vegans aren't even the worst example of the so-called green stage. After thinking long about it, I just don't see a way for me to believe in spiral dynamics. It's too simplistic of a model.

Sam Harris is actually very similar to Leo, in that both of them dedicated their lives to finding truth and the "purpose" of life (i.e. finding the most fulfilling way of living). They even arrived at many similar conclusions. The biggest fork in the road between them is probably how they see religion. Leo, sees it for what it was meant to be, Sam Harris sees it for what it is.

You just pulled that out of your . There is a slight complication here - the attractiveness curves for men and women are completely different. OkCupid did a study about this but I think they've deleted it now. Anyway, they plotted the ratings out of 10 for both genders and while men ranked most woman as above average, women ranked most men as below average. If we go with your last post where you said people go for mates of similar value, it's no wonder you get statistics like 80% of women going for the top 20% of men. Men are not made for beauty. I'm not one of those men who whines about their looks though, it's not something I'm particularly attached to. Tbh, that's probably because I'm very average. But I had to point out that it's misleading to make statements like top 20% of women go for the top 20% of men. That's an idealized view of reality. The majority of men are going to have to compensate in other departments if they want to find any partner, it's not just a case of lower their standards.

@White Out of curiosity, what stage are you at right now?

Alpha is pure red. Orange men either try to use money to attract women or they're like the pickup artists where they improve their social skills and their lives in general to be able to create situational attraction. However, society shuns pickup artists and women don't consider them to desirable men. They're only desirable when they're creating value for themselves in a social setting but they're not intrinsically valuable partners. But I see why green may be considered alpha as well, though it depends more on the individual. Yeah, I don't get the whole ego backlash thing regarding Trump. Leo is talking about it as if Trump is the president most Americans would have wanted (btw, I'm not American). Let's not forget that Hillary actually got more votes, the Trump win was a fluke resulting from weird electoral college system. And if Bernie Sanders had been the Democratic candidate he would have won by a landslide.

I'm the same. Actualized.org made me this way for some reason. Before I listened to Leo's videos on enlightenment a few years ago, I never reminisced an cried so much. Usually I get triggered by music, if I hear some deep music it sends be into a bout of reminiscing and sadness.

@White Thanks. I have in theory been aware of all worldview being equally true for some time, however treating them as equally true is a different matter because there's a clash with self agenda of course.

@White Ok, so how much does one need to immerse themselves in a phase to be able to transcend it? From what people are writing on this forum, it seems there's a consensus that much more is required to pass through green than through the earlier levels. For example is being just centre-left on the political spectrum enough, or do I need to be ok with everything the Venezuelan and Chinese governments are doing?

@White I'm ready to discuss this.