luckieluuke

Im a big fan of Jordan as well. It´s really a shame he seems to have completely missed Buddhism / non dualism. He commented on it once if I remember correctly saying that Western religion is for a younger stage of life while eastern for a later stage. I can see his point. The younger stage being rules you need to follow and later stage you set your own rules (my interpretation). He does really need to experience and learn of eastern mysicism, buddhism etc in my ears.

@Naviy I like this as well. But one danger for me is that like @Crystalous said it´s usually good to stick to one method. For me if I change between say 4 methods I only reach 25% in each instead of 100% in one. If you keep swapping methods you don´t go as deep as you would with only one method. And the deeper you go the more effective it is. So I agree with @Crystalous Just choose a method an stick to it. Personally I choose breath.

I prefer breath. It´s our most natural and close experience. It´s between something we can control and not control. It´s the most basic and profound thing. It´s also in my experience the most difficult because it´s so ordinary, which makes it so strong. Even if I count my breath i´m counting, using mathematics and exterior concepts. Just focus on your breath is the closest to this moment you can get. Let go of all concepts and ideas. Labeling and self inquiry is just something else to get caught into. Other techniques might seem better because momentarily you seem to get more clarity. Like if you chant the same word repeatedly. That is more like a trance and can be effective to still the top layer of your mind. But if you want to still your mind to the deepest level. Breath is the simplest and most direct way to go.

@Etagnwo Thanks, nice to know I'm not alone Somehow I just can´t help myself. My brain just get´s so triggered by models, they are so much fun and sometimes helpful but also sooo dangerous. Like playing with fire ;-)

In a big way, I don´t identify with a way Spiral dynamics operates. I am personally part blue/orange/green/yellow: I value traditions and discipline. I Value free market and competition. I truly believe Love and being at peace with nature is most important. I am part of building an ecological Village to improve future civilization and have a good job. Come to think of it I am part each stage under Yellow but not one in particular. I really don´t identify as being part of one or even two or three stages. This makes sense if you consider that each stage entails all the stages below it (ie I would have gone through them). But if that is the case why is the end of stages so painful? how can we be so blind when we have travelled through past stages. It seems they build upon eachother. Imagine a person who was blue but is now mid stage Orange. How can he/she go even further into Orange so that they don´t care about others and only material things if heshe truly have learned the lessons of stage blue? And if heshe later goes into green how can that person "forget" the individuality and entrepreneurship from stage Orange? It seems to me that different parts of me are in different stages. Im not sure I have went to the very late stages of blue->green. Does one have to? I don´t think so but It seems Spiral dynamics says yes. It´s easier to apply Sprial dynamics to humankind and civilizations. They are easier to box in for some reason. But people are very difficult to box in. They are if you just meet them but the more I get to know a person my initial judgement are always partially proven wrong. How about you? Do you feel strongly connected to a certain stage?

@Hansu The question is should you abolish your blue ideas as you move into orange, and abolish those ideas when you move into green? What needs to be done is rather to transform those ideas, build upon them. @Scholar But Spiral dynamics implies you moved from a stage earlier. In my mind I feel each stage can be generalized as exploring an idea and learning from it. When you are out of blue you should not only remember the limitations but also the possibilities. So if you really have learned the possibilites and importance of for example orange free market and individualism, how can you then become a complete late stage green and throw those lessons away? This is the conflicting idea with Spiral Dynamics, If you truly went through the previous stage you remember your lessons and there is no need to go deep into the current stage. And if you follow that reasoning it disable the entire structure of Spiral dynamics as you might not have learned your lessons from previous stage because you didnt learn the lessons from the previous stage to that previous stage. I like the whole Idea of Spiral dynamcs and there is alot of useful ideas but I see the reality as much more fluid than this rigid, boxed in model of thinking Again, this is just my personal reflection of spiral dynamics when it comes to me.

That's beautiful and profound. Thanks for sharing

Im not sure what to think about Enlightenment. It seems like it´s some sort of on/off state, you are or you´re not. What makes it different is that the moment you become it changes you forever and it will never go away (but nothing ever does go away, in the same time everything is always changing) Enlightenment seems different becaus any other area I practice I get an eureka moment, then i keep on practicing and I get an even deeper eureka moment. But is Enlightenment more than an ”eureka moment”? Seems like yes, but then people talk of different levels of enlightenment which makes it seems like an ”ordinary” eureka moment. I don´t know. And I don´t need to know, its all concepts. All I need to do is practice and I will see for myself. Like Leo says, if I wanna prove that millionaires exist I can only do it by becoming one J

I envy you. For me it's more like: I clean my windows, then they automatically become dirty so I need to clean them again. All I do is clean clean clean. ;-)

@krazzer I identify so much with you. I am slightly bipolar and also an introvert. For me when I have energy I usually spend time with people. But there´s another side of me that really really enjoys being alone. Unfortunately, this usually coincides when I have no energy so I cannot spend quality time with myself (reading, meditating, painting, music etc) Like you I wanted to always have energy. But you are probably more energetic then moste people when you are in heaven? Then of course you will need to have a "comedown" and save up energy until next time. I have tried to just accept this and not let it get me down. And like everyone here says non duality, meditation is the best way to distance yourself from this physical reality. Also do you have any physical illness? stress? Like stomach ache or something. Go see a doctor and see. even a small thing can have great effects.

Come to think of it, this is one of my biggest critique of non dualism / enlightenment. And I know it´s only because of my own ignorance but it seems like such a simple answer to discard all of humans collected knowledge. We are all one and the same so nothing seems to matter. Spiral dynamics is a complex idea and an impressive body of work and it´s so simple to discard it with "yea yea, but it isnt real, its just your ego, we are all the same infinity" I cannot help but feel a pointlessness to that non dual idea. Similiar to post modernism who say there are infinite ways to view reality and no way is better than the other and there is no meaning to try to value things. Similar to what Leo described in his 30 days retreat (14 days?) that he is everyone so whats the meaning of interacting with reality when you are just interacting with yourself. It all seems pointless and very depressive. So even if i kinda intuit that the Sprial dynamics is not real and just a map im not ready to give it up just because of that. I like to value it over other maps. I like to use it because it gives meaning to my life. Maybe when I´m more non dual, my ego is smaller I will see things differently.

Many times in my life I have seen a connection with personal growth and growth of a society/group/culture. I find that spiral dynamics gives an explanation to that. To me Spiral dynamics seems like a new tool, a lens to see our history with. And our history is important to know and understand if we are to grow. It also helps to conceptualize what we need to do next. Yes Spiral dynamics is a map and not the territory, but when you don´t know better it can be helpful even thou it is not true. It´s similar to buddhist teachings, they are not sacret and not "true" but they do help to show the way. So I see Sprial dynamics as a useful tool. Similar to evolution. But be mindful when you use it and know that it is only a map and not the territory.

Thats great to hear. I was on my first Vipassana a year ago and thinking about going again, so really nice to hear that it was fulfilling for you at least

Sounds like a great opportunity to practice not to get attached. It´s easy to practice not to get attached to bad experiences but more difficult but equally important to not get attached to good experiences. Be happy for the experience you had but they are only a memory and do not morn them. Always be present.

Hi, Im new here Just wantet to introduce myself by sharing a recent insight I had when it comes to meditation habit. Almost a year ago I attended a 10 day vipassana retreat. I promised myself to try to meditate almost every day for the rest of my life. But slowly the meditation became more and more difficult, my monkeymind became stronger and not weaker! I did 40 minutes a day, then 20. When I sat down to meditate after so many months/days I did it more and more because I promised myself and not because I wanted to. It became a choir. A blind habit I no longer had a connection to its purpose. So i stopped meditation everyday. I have realized that is probably the main reason my monkeymind is becoming stronger. I meditate for the wrong reason, afterall there is no "I" that "I" promised right ;-) Now I do it because I choose to, here and now and aware of the choice. I know I could do other things like playing video games but I choose to meditate. This changed everything! My ego and monkeymind is much weaker and my meditation practice is much stronger! I go much further into the meditation. Its really like that with everything I do in life, I need to question my actions and be aware of the consequences. Then when I act I do it with my whole heart. I know this from before i just forgot it. Everyday life has way of pulling you into the mediocre, into numbness. There are days i don´t have the energy to meditate. And fine, then i don´t meditate. Maybe I need time to "recover" to once again feel the urge to meditate. But I need to be careful not to use this realization as an excuse not to meditate. I also need that discipline to just do it. I need to find a balance. Guess that´s why Buddhism is often reffered to as "the middle way" Just thought i´d share and hope someone finds it useful

Thanks @molosku for bringing some context to @Ether comment. It seems you are right. And thanks for the Comment above. You are probably right, sometimes you need to keep on fighting even when it seems pointless, you will reap the rewards in the future. And sometimes just let go off it. It seems similar, even exactly like when you come up with a good idea, a eureka moment: you do the research for a long time. Then you take a step back and relax and the idea will come to you naturally.

@Ether wow so you just pop in casting judgment on all the Topics contributors as not serious? Or just me and John? Im curious how you can deduce from so little information about me that I am not serious, please explain. A comment like that needs an explanation.

Maybe it´s just me and I dont get it, but I find your text really hard to understand. It would help if you spent some time to write more clear and precise. Feels like you just type whatever comes into your mind. Think of me as a kid you need to carefully explain to ;-) I don´t mean to be rude, and like I said maybe im just slow to not follow!

Thats a really tricky question. I don´t know actually. But i got a feeling it helps me. Sometimes i think its just some kind of placebo and that it´s a waste of time. But my 10 day retreat showed me what it can be like with a raised consciousness or whatever happens. I started meditating to calm my mind, to have a happier life. But similar to forcing myself to meditate for a set time I found that if I have a purpose to my meditation it´s probably created by my ego. So i try not to have anye xpectations, I try to see it more as an exploration into exisistance. I´ve got a "gut feeling" that it´s what im supposed to do. Not that I want to become a monk, but like the middle way let meditation be a part of my life as other things are. Like family and friends. I guess thats why this work is so difficult. You sit and get bored and you don´t even know why you´r doing it. It´s kinda crazy really ;-) Why do you Meditate @Salvijus ?

Thanks for the replies Also noticed how before it was sooo hard to even do 20 minutes when that was my goal. Now i don´t set the time and if its 5 minutes its fine. if 40 then great. I notice I manage much longer with the goal of getting deeper into the meditation instead of "i just have to do the time"

When you meet someone, start with simply telling the truth about yourself and see what happens. You might view the conversation as a playground. Don´t take yourself too seriously. You are at a point in life when you have little to loose which means you have more opportunity than you think. Just start doing stuff and see where it leads you. Don´t overthink or analyze and you will feel if you are on the right way. Skip the selfhelping books, they all just boil down to start doing stuff, so start doing. But if you need some inspiration: i´ve listened some to Jordan Petersson bible lectures (not religious) and it has helped me take action, embrace change and responisbility in my life like I didn´t do before. Just a tip. And don´t worry. If you don´t feel like running take a break, the skills you learned will transfer to whatever you choose to do next. In the future you will look back to the one you are now with a smile on your face. I sincerely wish you will find your path