luckieluuke

@5thPablo Yea me too. The thing is that I think it´s from the perspective of an enlightened person that these things have no value, and from the ego´s perspective they have value. This is why I am afraid of these thoughts. It´s like a transition phase when I still have an ego but want to be enlightened (who is doing the wanting? ;-) ) It´s impossible for me to understand these concepts from my current point of view. All I can say is trust that it will make sense and do not fear it. Like you are a child and trust that you´r parents do what is right for you even thou it doesnt make sense to you know, but will when you´r older. If it´s painful it´s because your ego is taking damage which is a good thing. Personally I´d like to add that maybe don´t rush into it, don´t try to live like you are enlightened when you are not. Maybe I´d like to make the transition into enlightenement slow so it doesnt cause loved ones around me to much harm. But these are just my thoughts.

Everyone you will ever encounter who sticks by your side needs you to satisfy a desire they have (or imagined they have) So in the end they need you and it´s quite a nice feeling to be needed which is why it´s easy to get trapped. It´s not a premise for a long lasting healthy relationship. In a way it´s sad that people stick by your side, that they need you. But you need them as well, we trap eachother in a circle where we feed eachother. Reality is harsh for the ego, this "false love" is an excellent escape. We need to learn to love unconditionally. I´ve really taken that to heart since Leo´s video on love. It does feel we exist to learn to love unconditionally. Great post! thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Dammit all I got was a headache :-( Maybe earplugs arent the best for this...

@seeking_brilliance Nice to see a fellow lucid dreamer here. Althou it´s been a while since I practiced and had those. I have a romantic idea based on nothing but maybe desire: The reason why I get lucid in my dream is because my "waking self" programmed, or hinted at what my dreaming self should do: question reality. The reason my dreaming self is looking at his hands and counting the fingers is because of a hunch, a gut feeling. Sometimes it feels like there is yet another "self" that is hinting my waking self into questioning reality so I can wake up. I can only hear a whisper but I think I can feel when Im on the right track

@CreamCat If it works for you it works, otherwise listen to someone else Actually for me that is part of why Leos teaching works for me, BECAUSE Leo is not enlightened (the way Eckard Tolle) when I listen to him I don´t take his teachings for granted and believe it must be so. Instead I explore if it is true or not by myself. And that is where the work must be done, inquire for yourself. I do however think it´s slightly offputting the way Leo assert himself as a teacher or Guru and talks in a way as if what he says is the absolute truth. It would seem more honest and authentic if represented himself more as a person like everyone who is looking for the truth. But I don´t mind it. Maybe it gets him more views which helpts spread non dualism in which case it´s good. I don´t know and don´t care so much...nor sure even why im typing this....

@Emanyalpsid Why do you assume I cannot create it out of nothing? The egg and my body are part of big bang. Consider the possibility that what happens now can effect the past. The Universe creating itself. The egg is created so I can hold it. My body is created to hold the egg. I experience this. You ask "....figure out if one can make a distinction between it and itself. 'It' being the universe, reality, consciousness, absolute infinity, or whatever you call it and 'itself' being the self of it" If consciousness and absolute infinity is "it" then I´m not sure what you mean by "'itself' being the self of it"" Could you explain more?

Really? isnt it blatantly obvious that we once thought that objects were the smallest, then we invented microscopes and saw bacteria, then we saw even smaller stuff, then molecules, then electrons, then plank lenths. Do you really think we will stop there? that we say "ok everytime in history we said we found the smallest thing we were wrong, but this time we are right!!" No my friend, the universe is infinitly small and you can keep going smaller and smaller. Or maybe science has done it! maybe there is no smaller thing to discover?! yea right...

@Emanyalpsid I see what you mean, thanks but still my biggest question is: Lets use No 1. consiousness: "If the egg would only consist out of consciousness, it would exist upon itself. Because then it is not dependent upon something else to be perceived" How is it "proof" that if it consists out of consciousness it has to exists upon itself? To me that sounds like it is pointing towards that it it does NOT exist upon itself? Like you continue: "then it is not dependent upon something else" which points to that it is NOT seperate from consiousness. And from I understand you are trying to make the point that it DOES exist seperate from "I" or consiousness. The way I see it the egg is consiousness and me perceiving it is "real" but the egg is an illusion" That is, experience is all that is. Everything else is an illusion including you. You might say that you doent exist or that you are everything, its just two sides of the same coin. You are God and you are nothing. The egg is me experiencing it. Again where it comes from doesn´t matter because all that is is NOW and where it comes from is just backstory. Everything comes from big bang so in that sense we all come from the same source in a materialistic way and are all one as well. So it would seem to me at every angle I look at it the egg is not seperate from me because it´s an illusion. As much as my Ego is an illusion. My ego is holding the egg that makes the distiction and seperates the two. But that is an illusion. Or I might say that yes the egg is seperate from me because its an illusion and the real "i" is not. Kindof the distiction between creator and creation (but not really at the same time) "it is not the spoon that bends" :-)

Help me understand: It seemss quite different saying that the egg consists out of matter or consciousness: 1. If the egg consists of consciousness it would exists upon itself 2. If the egg consists of matter it would exist upon itself How are these the same? I feel like that goes back to the question I asked before which would be nice if you answered to understand the context: Does the brain produce consciousness or does consciousness produce the brain? Or is that up to us to decide? Lets use No 1. consiousness: "If the egg would only consist out of consciousness, it would exist upon itself. Because then it is not dependent upon something else to be perceived" How is it "proof" that if it consists out of consciousness it has to exists upon itself? To me that sounds like it is pointing towards that it it does NOT exist upon itself? Like you continue: "then it is not dependent upon something else" which points to that it is NOT seperate from consiousness. And from I understand you are trying to make the point that it DOES exist seperate from "I" or consiousness. The way I see it the egg is consiousness and me perceiving it is "real" but the egg is an illusion. If we use No 2. Matter: It seem like I am made out of matter and the egg out of other matter and we are seperate from eachother. BTW thanks for the link to foundations... will give it a read

@Salcedoop Sounds like you raised your awareness and got perspective all of a sudden. Which is a stark contrast where you were: deep down in details, walking in a dark forest with no landmark in sight. Very nice progress, happy for you

@Emanyalpsid I feel like it comes back to the question if the brain produces consciousness or the other way around. If the brain produces consiousness, that is physical reality produces consiousness, then the egg is an external object and would be hatched by the chicken. But if really examine the reality of the egg, what it feels like then how is it different from emotions and thoughts that i feel? it´s not really is it? We produce thoughts with our mind, and the external egg is felt by our senses. When i see the egg I can´t differantiate it from an egg I see in the dream or an hallucination. How do I know the egg is real? The only answer I can come up with is that I create everything I experience. It kinda feels like that but it´s a crazy statement to make! I don´t know man, I just dont know But it is a possebility

@Emanyalpsid OK I´ll bite I cannot know for certain that an chicken lay the egg becase that is it´s backstory, its history and it changes every moment. Like me. My body is physically replaced after many years. Everything that exists is now and history and future are concepts. Let me build on your experiement. Lets say I eat the egg. Is it me when I eat it? when its in my stomache? or when the body made it to nuitrients and stuff that keeps my ever evolving body to grow new tissues when old ones die. Then the egg becomes part of my hand, then the egg is me? But the nails on my hand is me as well...what if i cut the nail, then the egg is not me? The more you think about it the more you realize the border between you and everything else are crude approximations. The egg also becomes my brain. Guess the question is: Do you think the brain creates consciousness or consciousness creates the brain? I don´t know for sure but I want to find out

@Artaemis my question should come as no surprise to you: Please be a bit more precise. There has been alot of different kind of responses, to which do you refer to? And how are they strange?

@Genghis Khan Thanks so much for taking your time to post this, I feel like there´s been alot of talk of dark night and ego backlashes and other "negative" stuff here I actually started to think maybe this isn´t the right path afterall? So nice to hear you´r story, makes me want to keep investigating into reality on my own. Also really excited how you compared it to Lucid Dreaming. Ive had a few powerful awakeings in my dream and it´s so crazy when you realize your mind created everything around you, I feel like this is as close to enlightenment as I can comprehend. Nice to hear someone else compare the two. So happy for "you" that you had this experience <3 Please keep us updated!

Buddha spoke of everything dies and is rebirthed every moment. Seems to be people might have reeingineered that truth to their own, sayin that we have souls that rebirth when we physicly die...

Sorry for this wall of text but it would mean alot to me if you read it. I cannot convey my situation in a simpler way than this. In short: Meditation have such a small effect on me im not sure there even is an effect, my spiritual life is so uneventful! - why is this and what should i do? My history with spiritual practice: Ive meditated a little/experimented the past 5 - 10 years The past year ive meditated 5 days a week, 20-50 min First i practiced chakra meditation (feeling energy flow through chakras), then moved onto som "tibetian buddhism" (watching the mind) and now went on a Vipassana retreat and done that the last year. Ive done a few psychedelic trips for spiritual growth. Ive read a few books and listened to lectures. Eat healthy and exercise regulty I´ve never had a small awakening experience or strong glimpse of non duality except on psychedelics. I hear people on this forum and elsewhere talk about experienceing the dark night or directly experienceing non duality, blizz or hearing voices etc. I´ve had nothing like that. "Just" small vibrations or warmth and some feeling of energy. For a long time i´ve tried maintaining a equanimous mind. Not seeking or rejecting any experience. My path is mine and i should not compare it to others. But to be honest I am doubting if im doing it right or if there is anything to meditation at all. It´s not like the worlds most contributing humans (writers, inventors, musicians or simply great people, great parents) are enlightened or even have a meditation practice. The mind/ego is great at justifying ones action in retroperspective. I know I do, I tell myself meditation is great because it´s now grown to be a part of my identity...which im trying to see is seperate from "me" and me doesnt exist. And im very open to this possebility...i just havenet had any experience that points to it. Even at my Vipassana retreat where I followed the schedule 90% meditating 10 hours for 10 days straight I didn´t get any noteworthy experience. Sure i became alot more aware of my body. Like when i drank coffe one day it felt like taking speed. But nothing non dual, nothing to hint that I don´t exist, that reality is infinite etc But it did make me more concsious. It did enable me to take life more "lightly" and at the same time make more out of it. It changed so many things in me but in such a subtle way that im not able to pinpoint one of them. And that´s mostly why I keep meditating, because it feels like it has an overall posetive impact on my life. And it does still hint at something beyond logic thinking, but its just a vauge hint. Also after a good meditation I feel great and it can be exciting. And sometimes boring and pointless. Overall in my life I have ups and downs. I have energy sometimes and tired sometimes....could this be an effect of meditation? I am what psychologist would label slightly bipolar and have a light ADD (i function ok in society). I tell myself meditation helps but im not sure to be honest. Again the effect of meditation on me is so subtle if it even existst. I have lived a very "happy" life here in secure Sweden with loving family and great friends. Many say meditation makes you deal with your shit on a uncounscious level. Maybe I simply don´t have alot of shit to deal with? I mean i have some shitty experiences....Like when my friend commited suicide or most women treats me badly and left me. But i´ve always had loving people around me to ease the pain. And if it would be the case that I don´t have alot of shit then would´t that make me progress faster? Maybe i have alot of shit im just in such a denial about it even unconsously, maybe its even deeper and more sublte than most other people because i really do think I have had a nice life. Im not sure what to do at this point Or maybe this frustration with lack of "progress" is the proof of progress? i just dont know. Maybe I should quit all practice for some months and see what happens. Or do the opposite. Maybe a heroic dose of pshycedelics. Maybe i am blessed with so little bad stuff happening to me? Maybe I should try another practice. But part of me believes it´s more important to pick one and stick with it, get deeper experience with one rather then a shallow experiences with lots of different practices. If you read this far or even partly, bless you Im open to hear any ideas!

@Nahm

@Nahm Thats exactly it! What i meant when I said that since meditation can make negative unconscious things surface and I have had a great life. Ive never had super many friends but always enough. Ive never had lots of money but always enough. I never had lots of girls but always enough etc etc. It sounds so stupid and I feel a bit ashamed to say it but taking your words, its like im not "blessed" with any pain to figure out. I can only hear a whisper!

@Mikael89 Actually that might also be your streangth. To be honest im not ready to give up my Ego. Even if I consciously want to do it "I´m" still to attached to it. If you have no life then maybe it will make it easier for you to surrender - If you have nothing to loose you have everything to gain. @Spacious Thanks for you honest story. It´s nice to hear! @Artaemis wow that´s a tough start to life. Hope you´re doing better. It always amazes me when people have a shitty start and then turn it around, breaking all ideas that we simply are a result of genes and society. But yea I think i´ll go with Leos aproach

Ive thought about that and reading you say it it makes perfect sense to practice self-inquiry in order to get non dual self experiences! Again thanks alot for your help Leo! And thank´s for your contribution on behalf of me and humankind

@Leo Gura Thanks so much, I feel more motivated now. Heroic dose and kriya yoga here I come!

I would love to see Leo interact with people more!

In my experience I´ve never fully integrated a trip into my sober life. Probably I haven´t raised my awereness enough to do that. The trip is like a rolercoaster I hop on and afterwards i can only remember part of it because it was so much information! A trip can surely have life altering effects but in my experience it doesn´t leave me in a completely new state. There is always part of old me and my ego that I come back to. So i wouldnt be very worried that you would come out a complete new person if that´s your worry. Then again I haven´t tried 5meo so take my words lightly

Why would the I seek security in thought? Why would the I seperate from it´s desires? wouldnt submitting to ones desire rather make "i" one with the desire. It is called the apple of knowlege isnt it? it is knowledge humans gained and not desire. Not even sure it was desire that led man to eat the fruit? maybe curiousity? and thats kindof besides the point anyway. Remember adam and eve werent the first ppl, they were not born. Their kids were the first humans. Like I said above I think it was the intellect that humans gained, that god gave them. I think that´s why god placed the snake in the garden. Maybe he wanted man to make his own choice. Maybe god didn´t want to control everything. Like a parent, they want to protect their kid from the dangerous unkown outside their family garden but what fun is it if the kids never get a will of their own? Us humans have to go out and experience and learn for ourselves. In biblical story I think the idea of time is linked with sacrifice to god, wich is linked with desire. You sacrifice the desires of moment for a better future. And if you sacrifice to the right and only infinite god then the future you will be closer to god / heaven.