CreamCat

@Serotoninluv That was a bit of relativism. I basically wanted to say that we shouldn't be sure or dogmatic about certain beliefs. I could see through beliefs which others were not so sure about. People are desperately trying to believe beliefs which they are not sure of. I have beliefs I'm trying to believe, too. Your beliefs are fragile. Actuality is not. People are so sure about pedophilia while they know little about it. I'm talking about actuality rather than relativism. In a similar manner, people are so sure that not sending children to public schools will ruin them. Well, I'm relatively sure that I can guide education of my future children myself. I will know after I acquire direct experiences with unschooling. Unschooling has been done for decades, and it has been working. I think public schools are good for parents who don't have money and time, but it's delusion to think that it is the only sane way. Beliefs about compulsory education, unschooling, pedophilia, and so on really need revisions through direct experiences. I can see through dogmatism without direct experiences.

You're right. I didn't have sex with pedophiles when I was a child. I am not a pedophile myself, either. I don't have direct experiences with pedophilia. Notice that you have a specific way of interpreting raw data. I just noticed that I had one, too. People interpret children's relative naivety in one way or another. In one of Leo's videos, he said that there are infinitely many ways to interpret raw data and none of them is truth. Given what he said on this thread, he is very likely to object that that argument is related to nonduality and doesn't pertain to social issues. But, for me, there is no clear separation of nonduality teachings from other things. I was deluded about the whole topic of pedophilia. But, others are deluded about it too because they don't have direct experiences, either. It's like two blind persons talking about the shape of a skyscraper by touching it on the ground level. Once you recognize that you were adding interpretations upon interpretations to raw data, you will not be so sure about your opinions. I guess I was trying to demonstrate that we take our bullshits too seriously. Let me add more bullshits. I'd like to add that any degree of intelligence that you have as a human is tiny compared to infinite intelligence which also manifests itself in social structures and education system. Infinite intelligence is the order of the whole system. The order of a whole society is also part of infinite intellgience. In specific configurations of society, it may not be safe to have sex until age 30. In other specific configurations, it may be safe for most children to have sex due to infinite intelligence scaffolding human intelligence. We can talk eloquently and have various kinds of sex because of infinite intelligence, not because of human intellect. Without social structures, you can't even speak human language. Human intellect would become very primitive like a chimpanzee without the help of infinite intelligence. Human intellect is the work of infinite intelligence. Look at what happens to people who spend their first years with animals. Beyond a certain point, such people cannot learn human language until death. If you were raised by wolves, you would act like wolves until death. You acquire wolf intelligence. I suspect that we assume children are incapable of safe sex because we attribute our results to human intellect. What's great is not human intellect, but infinite intelligence. Even, chimpanzees beat human mind in some areas. If you tap into infinite intelligence the right way, an 8 years old child can get a PhD. If you don't tap into infinite intelligence, you might even give up getting a PhD at age 35. I think the same can apply to sex. I hypothesize that with the right structures, it's possible for infinite intelligence to make people good at sex before they hit puberty. It's basically infinite intelligence accelerating learning process. Our current model of bureaucratic education system is extremely inefficient. Infinite intelligence is an aspect of God. God can surely make people good at sex before they hit puberty. But, it's just a hypothesis, and I know that it is just another interpretation of raw data. Ignore me if you think I'm bullshitting.

You are assuming that sexual attraction for kids is bad. In the past, people used to think being gay was a disease. Gay brain was bad and had problems. To me, pedophilia is an unusual sexual orientation just like homosexuality, bisexuality, and so on. What is actually bad is child abuse. Thinking about having sex with children is not child abuse. Thinking about having rough monkey sex with women as a heterosexual man is not rape. I think about having various kinds of rough monkey sex with women every day, but I haven't assaulted women, yet. You can say the same about every heterosexual man. Actually, I haven't had sex with women, yet. In japan, a large portion of male population never had sex despite watching porn regularly. It's told that most pedophiles are just like us. They have sexual urge, but most of them can control it. Low consciousness porn is said to affect sexual performance, but it doesn't say anything about crimes. Almost every man watches porn, yet only a few of them commits actual rape or repetitive sexual harassment. I don't care much about porn's effects on sexual performance because being bad at sex is not a crime.

@Serotoninluv Sorry for taking up too much of your time. I hope you don't hate me for bugging you.

First, you're assuming that pedophile's brains are problematic without actually analyzing their brains. That's a value judgement of human ego like any other. In the similar manner, psychopathy is not a brain disease, but it is an evolutionary adaptation like any other. You're thinking that pedophiles (and psychopaths) have problematic brain connections because they seem to threaten you or your children. Also, that's like saying heterosexual porn reinforces my brain's problematic connections each time. We better talk about actuality rather than vague theories. 2D child porns have been circulating for decades. I haven't heard that 2D child porns meaningfully contributed to crimes. Does GTA 5 mess up with criminals' brains? Should we ban GTA 5? Did games like GTA 5 significantly contributed to starting wars? I surely killed thousands of people in GTA 5 without remorse. Does 2D child porn mess up with pedophilic criminals' brains? Should we ban 2D child porn? Do heterosexual rape porns reinforce assault toward women? Should we ban heterosexual rape porn?

A large part of social welfare is freedom. It's largely freedom from boss and starvation. It is also about prevention of crimes. Universal basic income will ensure freedom from boss and starvation. Basically, in a nutshell, social welfare is about preventing bad things from happening to people. Universal basic income is an important goal of social welfare. Conditional welfare programs are often as good as nothing. Universal health care might become as important as universal basic income. But, I don't dogmatically advocate any of those policies. I just think of them as possibilities. Also, I wouldn't condone any method that would increase actual crimes. I suspect that under the current circumstances, it's not safe for most children to have sex with adults. Why do we not think about constructing a new future where the vast majority of children can safely have sex with adults? Perhaps, in a fully immersive virtual reality of the future? I also suspect that freedom can be a Green value for some Green people. Perhaps, are you not quick to peg me as a fully Orange person? Also, are you sure you are being Green with regard to pedophile issues? No one is solidly Orange or Green across all aspects of life. I think being obsessive about wanting to be Green or any other stage of Spiral Dynamics puts the cart before the horse. Green is not some glorified destination where we should stay. It's not special. It's just a stage like any other.

Freedom is an aspect of compassion. Think about slavery of the past. Legalizing 2D child porn would satisfy pedophiles without allowing them to hurt children. In japan and a few other countries, 2D child porn is legal. I don't minimize sexual abuse. In my point of view, you are creating a lot of false positives. I care about actuality to see if children's freedom and that of pedophiles can be increased. When there is actual sexual abuse, I become angry. I just think that in some unknown configurations of society, it should be possible for the vast majority of children to engage in sex with adults safely. I want freedom to be maximized where it can be maximized partially because I am compassionate about people's freedom. This situation reminds me of a movie called minority report where people were locked in prison for damages that haven't happened yet. I also suspect Green doesn't necessarily involve cracking down on pedophiles. It's possible that some Green people might actually share my opinions. Not all Green is the same. Is it possible that my Green involves freedom?

@Serotoninluv That's mostly due to lack of sex education. Children are not educated about sex and how to have sex safely. That's why I contemplated about sex license for prepubescent children which is just like driving license. In certain configurations of society, it is possible for most children to safely have sex. We probably just don't know such a configuration, yet. What do you think of compassion as concern for people's freedom without allowing them to hurt others beyond a certain degree? Is compassion really separate from freedom? The end goal, when I think of it, is to increase quality of life for as many people as possible. Compassion can be a mere aspect of quality of life. Can freedom be an aspect of compassion? Why can't governments at least allow 2D child porn so that pedophiles are satisfied while no actual child is harmed? Japan and a few other governments allow 2D child porn, but most governments don't. Are you going to say that advocating for legalization of 2D child porn is a Red position?

I think that's not actuality. Milo yiannopoulos testified enjoying sex with an adult man when he was 13 years old. I also think that some children can enjoy sex with adults. There was a news about a female elementary school teacher who had sex with a 11 years old boy. The boy clearly enjoyed, but others condemned her. I felt pity for her. When I was 11 years old, I was slowly starting to develop as a man and would have enjoyed sex with an adult woman. If a child was actually traumatized by sex, I would want punishment for the perpetrator. In my country, a drunk man violently raped a little girl in toilet. Her asshole was destroyed. Her digestive organ still doesn't function properly due to the damage he inflicted. I became angry at him for damaging her mind and body. Uninformed principle can be misleading. I focus more on actuality. This is the reason that I questioned Green's limit of compassion. If they don't understand actuality of having sex with underage boys or girls, how can they be properly compassionate? Actuality needs to accompany compassion. I also think having sex with prepubescent children is ok once those children understand what sex is and learn how to have sex safely. I even contemplated about sex license for prepubescent children.

I don't view pedophilia as deviant. I acknowledge it as a sexual orientation as much as I acknowledge LGBT as mere sexual orientations. I had plenty of time to contemplate about sexuality. Long before I acknowledged it as such, I didn't have strong opinions about pedophilia. They should be free to have sexual desires toward children although actual abuse is not ok for me. This conclusion was derived from principle of freedom and to some degree from compassion. I feel pity for pedophiles. I have a gay friend who taught me concepts of bisexuality, homosexuality, and so on. It's other people who view pedophiles as deviants. I simply didn't know if Green accepts pedophilia, so I assumed some or many Green people may not accept pedophilia. Also, don't assume that I have never been Green. I had been Green for many months until I had to revert to Orange due to financial constraints. When you are low on money, you have to save yourself first. I understand how Green thinks and feels to a degree. To a degree, I know how unhealthy Green unfolds in myself and others.

That is demotivating. Perhaps, you should make a proper video to persuade people to learn history of certain topics.

@TomDashingPornstar I had been properly soaked up in stage green, too. I don't think I'm really stuck in Orange. I re-embodied Orange to deal with my life situation. I am not really stressed about progress and success for the sake of progress and success. But, I need some success to make living. Green is not well suited for focusing on life purpose with laser focus.

@Leo Gura What's your opinion on society's treatment of pedophiles? It would be interesting to know your position about this. Usually, people are not consistent with issues around pedophilia. Also, where are you on Spiral Dynamics? @TomDashingPornstar Man, Leo is not even married, yet.

@TomDashingPornstar In my country, men and women gained the voting rights at the same time.

I read about it in newspapers. I clearly read from those newspapers that the man was put in prison for months for accidentally bumping his hand into a woman's ass. The woman claimed the man grabbed her ass incessantly, but the CCTV footage shows the man passing by the woman very closely. As soon as the man passed by her, she called him from behind and started accusing him of sexual harassment. The man didn't even notice her presence because she was to the right of him and was hiding in an invisible corner. If the newspapers weren't lying, at least a man went to prison for that. The judge sent him to prison for months for not apologizing to the woman. I never heard about a woman sent to prison for similar things. It seems women have more power in some areas of life. I didn't feel that I had more power than women. This dialogue about power doesn't apply too well at the individual level. You seem to assume that men have more power in some form. Perhaps, men do. I don't know about actual power balance, yet.

I watched some parts of your video about actuality. It is spiritual and also Yellow as hell. Isn't the perception that men are overpowered, compared to women a concept and an imagination rather than actuality? In my country, I read about a man put in prison for months for accidentally bumping his hand into a woman's ass. This kind of things happens often in my country. As a man, I don't feel empowered. Does it mean that Green doesn't value actuality much?

I wasn't. There are female pedophiles, too. I was merely trying to test limits of Green's compassion. The ultimate challenge. I personally don't care much about pedophilia.

@TomDashingPornstar Here's the ultimate challenge for limits of compassion. Would a Green person embrace pedophiles? Would LGBT acceptance movement embrace pedophilia to become LGBTP acceptance movement? How many Green people would feel compassion toward oppressed pedophiles? Nobody denies that there's obvious oppression of pedophilia in most countries. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a pedophile. I am a heterosexual man who's attracted to curvy women.

@TomDashingPornstar I remember Leo saying in a video about devilry that human ego is capable of compassion. Green doesn't have monopoly over compassion.

@TomDashingPornstar You assume that Green people don't have self. Their selves are strong.

@Shiva It's good to see naked protesters from time to time for novelty.

At one point, green people protested against selling rabbit meat in marts. They didn't mind selling cow meat or pig meat. How is rabbit's life more valuable than that of cow or pig? I guess that they favor rabbits over cows and pigs because rabbits are cute and people raise rabbits as pets. Green people are often seen to advance special interests of one group over another. Green's love is still very conditional and very specific. As Leo said, people are self-centered across the board. As a corollary to self-centeredness, people are also localist. Localism leads to an obvious conclusion that humans will wage wars to stop others from selling human meat. Self is localist. This dynamic doesn't change when it comes to biological sex.

Leo has serious videos for you.

I also recommend taking Leo's life purpose course if you haven't taken it already. This course may help you with life purpose.

I think the following two videos have a lot in common with the following video. Following is the summary of Noah Elkrief's video. How do we have positive thoughts? Trying to change the facts by changing external circumstances. Receiving compliments, appreciation, love, respect, and so on How do we avoid hurt and worsening of self image? Discrediting the source of information Shifting our attention to them and away from us Try to disprove what others said These three ways to avoid hurt are the cause of pretty much all our anger in response to criticism. We need to better understand what creates feelings and what others' opinions really mean. When we clearly see it, others' opinions can't impact self image. Therefore, we won't get mad or sad. If others' opinions don't worsen self image or create sadness, there is nothing to defend and nothing to be angry about. Others' words only impact you when you believe them. If a homeless person whom you never met said you were terrible at your job, you wouldn't feel hurt because you know that person never saw you at your job. If your boss says the same thing, you believe the words and feel hurt. Words in and of themselves don't impact you. It's only your belief that creates the impact. Rejections and insults of any kind can't impact us unless we believe them. When we believe somebody's words, they have impact on us by changing our self image. Criticisms and insults reaffirm negative ideas about oursevles we've been trying to convince ourselves isn't true. Negative opinions remind us of something we didn't want to admit and uncover what we really believe. We often perceive insults indirectly when others don't make eye contacts with us, question our intellect, and so on. Why do we automatically believe others' opinions? That's what we are taught to do since we were kids. We take that attitude into adulthood. We are never taught to question the validity of others' opinions. Whatever others did, what does it mean that they think about me? If they think about you, what does it mean about you? For example, if they say I'm stupid, what does it mean about me? What does it actually mean about you that they have negative opinions about you? How to lose anger Just because they said that or did that, does that mean they actually view me in a negative way? If they don't call me, we assume that must mean they don't like me. Can I think of any interpretation? If you believe they have a negative opinion about you, you can instead question whether their opinions are acutally true. If it isn't true, then there is nothing to defend and nothing to get angry about. Often, when something doesn't fit, people say it is bad. It is not bad. It just doesn't fit someone or some situation. Whatever they think about you, it has nothing to do with you. It just has to do with whatever fits their condition and their training of what is good and bad. We can be confused between `not good enough` and `not the right fit`. Whatever bad opinions people have about you don't mean anything about who you are. It's just not the right fit. Is their opinion about you true? Does their opinion about you mean anything about who you are? Somebody could have a different opinion. How do you know anyone's opinion is right? If you can see that, you are free. There is nothing to defend. There is no worsening of your self image. Just because you like someone, that person's opinions aren't more valid than those of others. Opinions are just ideas. If you believe others' negative opinons about you, admit that you believe those opnions. Anger is a diversion tactic. It's a cover-up. It's always hiding something underneath that we don't want to admit. Whenever someone insults you, ask yourself `Do I believe that about myself?` Once you admit that, you have a chance. You question the validity of that. Could somebody else have the opposite perspective? If somebody else does, do I know that my opinion about myself is true? You can also question the overall credibility of your own opinion. When you have an opinion about something else, that doesn't mean it's true. If you have an opinion about yourself, it doesn't mean it's true. Look how an action doesn't mean anything about who you are. If I clap for a few seconds, am I a clapper? No. It is just something I did for a moment. Whatever you did in the past has nothing to do with who you are now. We need to be clear on the difference between what we are and what is done in the moment. In other words, we have to question the difference between reality and our imagination. In reality, you have hands and nose. Boredom, uninteresting, stupidity, failure, unlovable, and so on don't exist in real life. They are not who you are unless you find it now in reality. Whatever you think you are that's not detectable by 5 senses is not who you are. If there is no evidence of something in reality right now, it's not you. As long as you believe compliments, you believe insults. Both compliments and insults affect you when you believe others' words. Desire of compliments perpetuates anxiety about others' opinions. As long as you want compliments and insults, you live in prison where your happiness is determined by how others treat you. As long as positive opinions give you pleasure, negative opinion will give you pain. Both compliment and insult are based on misunderstanding that others' opinions are real and true and directly mean something about who you are. When you see that the pleasure you get from compliment and appreciation perpetuates all your anger, sadness, hurt, worrying about others' opinions, and trying to be somebody that others like and put on a show, it's not worth for a little bit of pleasure. Instead, you get peace and freedom to do what you want and freedom to not be affected when someone disrespects me and tells me I'm unworthy. When you recognize that you are neither good nor bad, you are just here, and there's nothing to defend. When we question negative opinions, we have to question positive opinions. You need to recognize that you are not good in order to recognize that you are not bad. You're just here. There are just actions and words. Evaluations of those things change. We have to be really clear on the difference between what you know and what we believe. I don't need other people to tell me I have a hand. When you want somebody to tell you you're smart, cool, and whatever, you're only desperately trying to believe it. If you know you have a hand, you don't need to defend the fact that you have a hand. If you have to defend something, then you don't know it. We only have to defend what we're desperately trying to believe. You never worry about what you know. When you know something to be true, you don't care about others' opinions. Your beliefs are fragile. Our self image is not real. It's heavily impacted by others' opinions. When you are trying to convince yourself of something positive about yourself, you have given power of your own happiness to others. When your self image differs from others' opinions, it's very difficult to convince yourself of your own self image. What we are actually doing when are getting angry is we are trying to defend our self image. Since we think our self image is who we are, we defend our self image as we defend our life and our limbs even though others' negative opinions change only your self image in your head. When you confuse your self image with who you are, you need to defend your self image as if it were your life. A person can almost kill or hurt someone to defend story in one's head. You are defending ideas, not reality. Reality doesn't need to be defended. Anything that needs to be defended from an opinion never existed at all because an opinion can't affect reality. It can only affect imagination. Anytime you get defensive and angry, it's a sign that you are defending something that isn't real. You're so scared of worsening of your self image that you perceive it as a threat to actual existence and your actual body. Anger is just confusion that our self image is who we are, so we are afraid of worsening or dissolving of self image. Your self image is imaginary and doesn't exist in real life. The alternative to spending your life on defending your imaginary self image is to discover you are here now. Everything else is just an idea in head. Right and wrong don't exist in reality. Your self image is completely susceptible to destruction because it's a story in your imagination. Allow yourself to just be here as you are. There's nothing wrong with you here. There's nothing good about you, either. Nothing to protect. Nothing to maintain. Nothing to improve. Nothing that can worsen. Just here. Defending and improving your self image is just an imaginary game. It has nothing to do with this moment. Therefore, if you are pursuing improvements in your self image, you are pursuing suffering because you will always worry about others' opinions and argue with others as long as you try to maintain your self image. You will have anxiety because your self image is susceptible to worsening. Allow yourself to be open to the idea that convincing yourself that you are good is a key to life, peace, and happiness because it results in suffering. Summary Anger is a cover up for the feeling of hurt. Instead of just letting our self image worsen, we just cover it up with anger and put our attention on others and how they are bad. Or, we try to convince that we are not bad. Ask what others did to make me angry. Ask yourself what it means about you. Question whether others' negative opinions about us are true. Question whether we think we have those negative opinions. Question the positive opinions in the same way. Nothing can make you angry and cause anxiety when nothing can mean anything about who you are. Everything impacts us because we think it improves or worsens our self image. When you discover that others' opinions about you and your self image are not real and are not you, life changes quite drastically. We are just left here to enjoy this moment as it is, no matter what is happening.