astrokeen

@TimStr , could you please recommend resources/links for some of the exercise you mentioned in your retreat week. SHF = "see, hear, feel" (labeling) - what is this please? Holo = Holotropic breathing Thanks

@TimStr , thank you. That was a very helpful and fascinating post. Your advice tips are very useful. It seems to me that the depth of your experience was more dependent on the intense preparation and effort you were making during the retreat rather then the type of psychedelic. Perhaps taking any psychedelic would have enabled a similar experience. Was this the first time that you had combined a retreat such as this with a psychedelic? Had you had any breakthroughs with others?

So, what does one do next to progress after a DNOTS experience. I guess that is akin to asking how do we gain enlightenment. However, wouldn't a DNOTS experience place one in a somewhat different situation? At least one has been shaken to the core and much of advice out there will feel inappropriate. I feel that the question I now need to ask is "who am I" and ask this with a meditation or breathing technique. This site suggests dozens of techniques - any suggestions about what worked well for you?

Excerpts from Eckhart Tolle - https://www.eckharttolle.com/newsletter/october-2011 "The “dark night of the soul” is a term that goes back a long time. Yes, I have also experienced it. It is a term used to describe what one could call a collapse of a perceived meaning in life…an eruption into your life of a deep sense of meaninglessness. The inner state in some cases is very close to what is conventionally called depression. Nothing makes sense anymore, there’s no purpose to anything........ ...... What dies is the egoic sense of self. Of course, death is always painful, but nothing real has actually died there – only an illusory identity. Now it is probably the case that some people who’ve gone through this transformation realized that they had to go through that, in order to bring about a spiritual awakening. Often it is part of the awakening process, the death of the old self and the birth of the true self. .....You are meant to arrive at a place of conceptual meaninglessness. Or one could say a state of ignorance – where things lose the meaning that you had given them, which was all conditioned and cultural and so on. Then you can look upon the world without imposing a mind-made framework of meaning. It looks of course as if you no longer understand anything..... to go around the Universe without any longer interpreting it compulsively, as an innocent presence. You look upon events, people, and so on with a deep sense of aliveness. Your sense the aliveness through your own sense of aliveness, but you are not trying to fit your experience into a conceptual framework anymore." Eckhart Tolle suggests one examines the world without a frame of reference. I can't find further explanations on the net with regard to how one should make the transition to realisation of truth. If anyone knows of any, please paste here.

Seems as if there is a big GAP between the 2 states: 1) empty desolation and meaninglessness 2) blissful consciousness of all as self Which raises the question how could one make a transition from one state to another.

@Nahm , I quite liked the taste and munched away easily. They were not unlike morrels, with just a nice added flavour. The mushrooms were called "golden teachers". So, presumably i had a 'ripping away the falsity' type experience, In every account I read, however difficult the onset, there was always a pleasant ending with a person experiencing joy or love or connectedness. In my case, this was entirely missing. As the effect petered out, I roused myself to go take a walk in the early hours of the morning, to get out in nature to see if something positive could come my way. Certainly, that was calming.

@Nahm , I had read many accounts which said that the dried version was about a tenth of the weight of fresh. I was aiming for something around 3 to 4 gm of dry and thought that 30 gm fresh would deliver that measure. I balked at the whole MacKenna 5 gm recommendation. Incidentally, there was hardly any effect for say the first hour and a half. However, 2 or 3 hours later I was in state of delirium for a while.

No. 30 gm of fresh mushrooms. The effect lasted about 9 hours. No visuals though.

@tsuki, would you please say more about your experiences. How did these unfold for you, which further and less torturous awakenings came your way? Did these occur spontaneously or did they require spiritual practices?

If the process will unfold of its own accord and only receptivity is required of me, that would be a tremendous gift. If, perchance, I have happened upon a process towards enlightenment - well, how wonderful. There is nothing I want to escape, I assure you. I am, however, fearful, that I may be stuck at the current stage and nothing will unfold. I might just remain in a state of confusion, over thinking things, alternating between moments of despair and optimism.

Only the beginning!! I was feeling angry today that my great desire and aspirations for spiritual evolvement or a breakthrough should result in such misery. Why does it need to be this difficult?! And if it is. what could I expect to happen next? How was it for you?

So, it was a good thing that I didn't get visuals? But, I must have been ego-focused or why the need to annihilate my ego.

I've just caught up with a few more posts. I am deeply touched and feel supported. There is no higher consciousness supporting us but there are people like you. Thank you, all. Once it has all sunk in my exhausted brain, I may ask for clarifications. Great picture and quote, Cetus56.

Your understanding of the state I describe seems to be very close of the Buddhist notion of "Emptiness'. I am grateful for your positive take on this and hope my perspective will change. I can see some things changing. I can see myself as being less self-conscious, calmer, more confident, more reflective, better at seeing that if I don't matter and our actions are essentially meaningless, there is no need to get into a tizzy over them. So, as you said, Tsuki, one feels free.

I think I need to reiterate what is it that I felt. If that is the truth, then it is scary: Life is a kind of meaningless hell for everyone - from which there is no escape. There is no loving consciousness keeping watch over us. All we can do is find another human being to form attachments with - human contact can, to a little extent, provide succour. Our work, interests, life styles are distractions from facing the awful truth of the hopelessness and meaninglessness of our existences. We can grasp at all these things only to mask the emptiness that is within us. It is all that humans can do. Death itself is not an answer - there is no escape. It is all darkness and nothingness.

I was not in a state to control what I was sensing or experiencing. A strong shroom trip, after all. So, talk of it being my fault is somewhat misplaced. Perhaps I needed to go further into the experience, which I hope never to do as it was the most hideous, brutal punishment ever. I hope I can some day understand it by other means. Thanks for taking the time to explain the distinctions.

Do you mean that to state that all is meaningless is a contradiction in terms? One cannot escape from meaning. Yes, this resonates. There were elements of it which uncovered deeply harboured fears. The bit about there being no god, no consciousness watching over us was something I had never entertained. The hopelessness of it all was a shock. Very sensible advice about not mulling over it too long.

I get this. I am some way yet in finding the perfection in it. You have given me much to think about. Thanks.

Thank you both. Tsuki, the thought that did come to me was that since the life I have built around me is meaningless, I needn't worry which bit is worthier or more successful. I can construct whatever I want to suit me. I needn't impress anyone - that would be completely pointless. Perhaps, there is a hint of freedom in this realisation. I would like to find the stillness you speak of. now is forever, I went for a walk at 4 am to seek a change and breathe in fresh air. I noticed the loveliness and silence around me. I felt that is all one can do - live in the moment and appreciate whatever comes our way. This would allow one to momentarily forget the meaningless of existence. I do know my (now adult) children love me, but I knew I couldn't reach out to them in my moment of darkness. They would have found it repelling and pitiful. I was essentially alone.