Don_Avocado

Hello all, If you're reading this fresh, then I recommend you read my previous two posts on my experience with 5-MeO-DMT. As I have discussed in previous posts, 5-MeO-DMT is the only psychedelic I have ever used. My only preparation for usage of this substance has been 1 year of vipassana meditation practice, and careful study of non-duality / psychology texts. On this occasion, the setting was a quiet morning at home alone. I felt slightly nervous going into this experience today, as my previous experience (second experience) had been so utterly bizarre... nonetheless, I was calm and ready. I queued up some meditation music, and this time I weighed out 23mg of the substance, split into 2 lines, insufflated into each nostril and laid back. Following advice given by other members in the forum, I rested with my head upside down for 10 minutes, gently massaging the substance into my nostril. This trip was different. My pulse went through the roof and my breathing appeared to come to a stop. I now fully understand why some people experience such a bad trip using this substance; unless you're fully ready to let go and accept your own death (yes, this is really what it feels like), then you may just end up in your own self-constructed, self-perpetuated hell. When people say nothing can prepare you for what you will experience during the "come on", pay no attention. It can be scary, but you have to be mindful that it is simply your ego kicking and screaming as it is pushed out of existence (temporarily). You can prepare for the come on through (in my experience) vipassana meditation. I also recommend reading and contemplating some non-duality texts. I've also found that meditation music can help you get through the "come on" - I find it very effective to turn this off once you're into the full trip (if you can!). As my pulse shot up, and my breathing appeared to subside, I indeed felt some fear; I also felt slightly nauseated. I could either perpetuate that fear, and enter a world of existential horror, or I could allow it to be; let go of my mind and body - accept my death, so to speak. I went with the latter. The first stage of this trip, I experienced the same sexual energy that I had in my 16mg trip; I was pure sexual energy. My whole experience was permeated by this state that I can only allude to as orgasm... Although this time around, the state did not endure - I went a level deeper. I realised my true self - the infinite observing consciousness of the entire universe; although, I call this a "semi-breakthrough" experience, as some awareness of my grasping ego remained. I'm sure with a slightly higher dose (30mg) will probably push me that final step further. None of you would believe the extent to which our egos shape our material existence. Seriously, it's unfathomable. Our true nature is totally empty; it's perfect, blissful & infinite. I spent maybe 10 minutes (although it felt infinitely longer) in this state (mostly), observing the ego and the body flickering in and out of existence. Toward the back end of this experience, I had a number of experiential and intellectual realisations. Our human life is like a "glove" of the universe; a veneer that exists only to be aware of itself. It's hard to explain. Our ego literally throws our sensory perceptions into a navigable matrix of sorts - human life is but a game, and we have infinite possibilities. Our suffering is optional. I experienced this directly. What we have here guys is a gift. As I came down from the experience, I experienced myself literally "coming down", as if I was being birthed into a new form... My body and breath came back into experience... I felt awareness gently permeating each part of my body, as if I was being "filled up" from nothingness. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced. I opened my eyes and looked at my hand; it was like I had never seen it before. I immediately knew that my purpose here in this life was to do the work of what I know to be god - to experience myself fully - to do subjective good in the world - to help alleviate the suffering of others. This life is all temporary - don't take it too seriously. There is NOTHING to go after... I say this in an experiential and intellectual sense. The intellectual sense is easy to get, but the experiential sense is difficult - this is what 5-MeO-DMT is truly useful for. When you realise your true nature, your attachments and neuroses' in this human life will begin to crumble - the question is whether you're psychologically mature enough to take this blow.

@Azrael great post - amazing insight.

I couldn't say, I'm not a chemist / biologist, I'm just some idiot absorbing the wisdom of others . On a serious note though, in my own experiments I've found that direct experience can put an end to intellectual grasping... whether or not there is a lasting chemical change I do not know... I feel more easy having received some answers, if that makes sense.

I'm working on it, one dose at a time

I think it would be too early for me to comment on that - I will be posting something on this a month or two after achieving a breakthrough state. However, I will so short term effects at lower doses have been noticeable. I think when you experience something directly, it doesn't matter what your previous beliefs or ideas were about something, they will either be validated or shattered so to speak. I don't want to mistake a state for the truth, but I am currently experiencing reduced uncertainty about goals I have set for myself. There's also a noticeable amount more self-confidence having seen that my death is not the end and this is all only temporary. I also have a bit of a clearer head and more of a mindful state over the past few days, and have been better able to relax and enjoy the subtle beauty of all things in life.

@Snick Hello my friend; not a problem, hopefully my experiences are helpful to you. I can see quite clearly from my experience with 5-MeO-DMT why some people have such bad trips, as per this and previous reports. I really do recommend some prior work, particularly meditation. This is not a magic pill so to speak, especially if the user is a novice to consciousness work. I think it's good to go with your intuition, and when you feel you understand what it means to let go experientially, then by all means try the substance... but as I have done, build it up gradually. In regards to life purpose, do not confused this with consciousness work. In my experience, life is completely without meaning, yet don't take this as a negative - be mindful of your ego snapping you back to that depressive conclusion - it's only your conditioning that leads you to believe that you NEED "meaning", and to be without it is to suffer. If life is without inherent meaning, and our true nature is infinite, then what does this actually mean to us as human beings? It means we are the architects of meaning in our lives; we choose our purpose. You need to do some inquiry into your association of lack of "meaning" and suffering. Yes, everything we do in this life is temporary and will inevitably be taken from ourselves and the wider world by death, entropy etc... but this is LIBERATING... to me, it seems like you're holding a mental dichotomy with consciousness work on one side, and life purpose work on the other. Do not be tossed between these two wretched extremes. That's just more ego. Whilst you are here in this life, you have a chance to spread your message and do your work; but you have to stay conscious of the truth. You will always rest easy knowing that you are already complete & part of the totality of the universe. You can end your mental suffering; but only if you can hold LOOSELY to your conceptual ideas & beliefs. You can significantly reduce your attachments to thinking without ending your life purpose work. Maybe you also need to question the motives of your life purpose; is there a craving & desire to be seen in a certain way? Or are your motives totally authentic & meaningful to YOU?

@WaveInTheOcean link to the Spotify album below - Quiet Night Meditation - very calming, very helpful when coming into the trip.

Azrael, this bit really helped me with my 23mg trip on 5-MeO-DMT... "fuck me man, this is nuts"... the experience of becoming infinite, but then being birthed back into a body & mind, and then exploding out again, multiple times... the way our ego whips our experience into something navigable, understandable & tangible is unfathomable. And fuck me, it doesn't let go easily. Amazing post, please keep sharing your experiences.

Hello all, If you haven't already, please take the time to read my initial post on my first experience with 5-MeO-DMT (12mg). After getting some advice from more experienced psychonauts on the forum (coming to this a complete novice), I have adjusted my insufflation technique; this trip was far, far stronger than before. I have to stress the importance of coming into this psychedelic with a mindset that is totally ready to let go; this includes being in the right environment - safe, warm, quiet and secure - any potential psychological insecurities / neuroticism you will want to satisfy as best you can before using the substance. This dose I took knowing I would have people over in 2 hours or so; this thought in the back of my mind (I believe) prevented me from making the most of this experience... though, it was still mind blowing... Proper insufflation and higher doses (this time 16mg) make an unfathomable difference. This time, perhaps 10 minutes in, the trip hit me full on... I find it quite hard to recall given that there was literally no thought at the time. I was lying back, head off my bed, allowing the substance to gently do it's work... The next thing I know, the boundaries of my body were exploding; the mind was extinguished completely. I can't explain the consciousness that I felt, but it was far beyond anything I have ever experienced during meditation. I knew myself to be the consciousness of the universe; this was experienced directly. I was no longer aware of bodily processes, such as breathing etc... it was truly bliss. You really have to allow this to happen; there's no use panicking. I found my vipassana practice to be crucial in this process. This was not such a gentle experience as my first trip... after being punched in the face by this universal consciousness, my reality (for lack of a better description) went into orgasm... that's all I can allude it too. My entire reality lit up with sexual energy - imagine the very peak of one of your more intense orgasms, and imagine that pleasure enduring for over a minute... my nervous system lit up like a Christmas tree... no word of a lie, I felt that I had ejaculated, and a light scent of bodily sweat pervaded my experience... though I still had no tangible sense of a body... These feelings were coming for no particular spacial location; they were all I knew at the time. The trip got stronger... at this point, I became aware of the fragility of my human body. I could perceive my sensory experiences, but again they were located in no particular spacial location. I was universal consciousness, and there was no room for the body or the mind. I felt as if my body and mind were being squeezed; I felt like they would explode under the pressure - it felt like they would break apart and disintegrate. I knew to go further I would have to be completely ready to let go; I would have to surrender into death, and then burst into infinity... I did not do this. A nagging thought in my mind kept me from going with it fully - people would be coming around later - what if I'm still in this state when they arrive? I had no idea what my body might be doing in this moment... was I writhing around... was I covered in ejaculate... was I screaming... these all seemed possible at the time. Although I had these worries, I didn't identify with them or let them consume the experience; I merely held this state. It was not the time to burst right then. It was all very intense. I can't describe the love and pleasure inherent to the state I was in... although that boundary between that state and surrendering into the unknown (into death) was seemed pretty formidable. I must stress again the importance of being in the right environment for this! No distractions. You feel truly vulnerable in this state, as if your soul was bare and naked for the universe to see. It felt as if all those whom I were close to where there, watching me in this naked confusion... it was that weird feeling you get when someone walks in on you doing something you shouldn't be... I didn't know where I was... You just have to go with this; are you ready to expose yourself; to be 100% vulnerable? I thought I was going to vomit as this consciousness tried to force my body and mind into submission... then I felt something strange... the sensation of warmth and fur in what I assumed was my hand. I thought I had been alone in my room; somehow my cat had been sitting under the bed without me knowing... I opened my eyes, and there she was staring me straight in the face... she curled up, purring next to me... I'd never realised before how calming her presence was... we can learn a lot from cats; truly enlightened beings. It was almost as if her calm and vacant expression was coercing me into surrender. Her gentle presence was soothing. All I know in this moment was love. That's all there really is... I'm sure of that now... love, universal consciousness, whatever you want to call it. As the experience began to fade... it was if I was awakening for the first time; seeing my room through new eyes... what the fuck had happened? Had it really only been 20 minutes?.. I (the ego) had not died, yet I knew life wouldn't be the same again - it was like rebirth. The vulnerability felt during the trip lasted for at least another 20 minutes; a very confused and 'grasping' state. I felt ok to walk at this point. I got up and was glad to find that I had not ejaculated, and I was not dripping with sweat... my throat was hoarse so I have no idea what had happened there - I assume there was some drip from the substance, as surely the cat would have gone mad if I had been shouting / screaming... I put some music on for a bit, and just laid back with the cat in my lap, stroking her & being with the music... this was great. After an hour or so from insufflation, I went for a walk outside. I live near a beautiful canal - and walking down this I truly saw the beauty nature. The shimmering water, refracting the red/purple sunset hue; crunching autumn leaves under foot; the trees blowing, and the gentle wind upon ones face. As per my first post, I must stress again that there is NOTHING to pursue... (explanation) In these experiences, the strength of all attachments to conceptual things (i.e. the ego, perceived objects of reality, thoughts etc) is reduced; ultimately, I expect these attachments are surrendered (let go of) entirely as we surrender into them - although that requires conceptual death... I don't think anything can prepare a person for that - there's no room for panic - only bravery & acceptance. I hope when I do break through that barrier, I am able to do so with some dignity. The presence of "things" in our reality is a comforting reminder that we are alive; you have to let go of it all to experience God - I see what Leo & others are talking about now... Has anyone got any advice on breaking through? 16mg was insane... what do I need be be mindful of in stepping up my dosage? Would it be wise to hang fire and have another few rounds at this intensity? The world seems pretty perfect right now.

Hello forum, I'm not usually one to post, however I feel compelled to share my first experience with 5-MeO-DMT. To provide some background, I have now been meditating consistently since July 2015. Generally I do vipassana meditation, and would consider myself relatively adept practitioner now, though no expert by a long shot. I came into enlightenment work completely fresh around the time I began meditating; I had no prior knowledge on the subject itself, nor any significant on encompassing subjects such as psychology (the ego, the conscious/unconscious mind etc.), non-duality, meditation or spirituality in general. I had always struggled with emotions, and coming into this work I became immediately fascinated. In the beginning, meditation was a ball ache. My practice was forced and boring, though something (probably blind faith) kept me going with this rigid routine - mediation everyday for 40 minutes - no exceptions. As I was beginning to lose patience and hope that meditation would bring me enlightenment, I had my first awakening experience around the end on January 2016. As I was sitting in mediation, I was practicing a "free floating awareness" technique as prescribed by Shinzen Young (The Science of Enlightenment)... I suddenly became aware of the nature of my ego - how it's nature is essentially a conceptual repository of past emotions, events, feelings, perceptions and so forth. I struggle to describe the following, as I am still unsure what type of awakening experience this was, but perhaps someone here can help... there was a gentle, progressive rising on energy in the body - it felt as if all this energy was collecting; as if it were going to burst outward... sure enough it did. The conceptual boundaries seemed to dissolve as this energy (my awareness) burst outwards in all directions. Before I knew it, for five minutes I was everything. Sure, bodily sensations were still there, but they were no longer mapped to discreet bodily locations; they were more stars in the night sky that I had become. I didn't appear to be located anywhere spatially - I knew intellectually that I was sitting down, but in experience it didn't feel like there was a floor anymore, or for that matter a body that was sitting. Form had dissolved, and awareness had expanded infinitely. However, it all soon returned as I curiously opened my eyes. Form came back. Everything returned. The next few months, up until my first 5-MeO-DMT experience were charged by this first awakening experience; I now had my motivation to continue. I had one other experience identical to this one (albeit slightly stronger), but nothing else noteworthy. Although, I now know better than to attach meaning to these experiences, else we create another idea in our head for the ego to grasp for. I also know now that rigid meditation routines can be more neurotic than helpful - it's important we are kind to ourselves, and enjoy our practice. Anyway, recently I managed to source 250mg of HCl 5-MeO-DMT - no advice will be given on how (sorry). I had never taken psychedelic drugs before, so I had some worries before proceeding - these were mainly fueled by bad trip reports you will all have read about online. Though, for some reason, I took Leo's advice on blind faith (don't know why, but I trust the guy) and tried it out. It was just after midnight, and everything was quiet; I had made all the relevant precautions to ensure I felt safe, secure and comfortable (get all the potential neuroticism inducing factors out the way before taking the drug). Earlier in the day I had taken a loading dose to be more certain the drug agreed with me (2mg) - this was fine, and gave me some confidence in what I was about to take. I measured out 12mg of the substance and snorted approx. 6mg into each nostril. I then queued up some meditation music and settled back calmly into bed. Tipping my head back I let the substance sit there for 5-10 minutes or so. Let me just say, for someone new to anything except weed, this was disgusting. Snorting gives no pain at all, but once it has settled, the substance tastes revolting - like paint stripper at the back of your throat. You can feel it dripping into your throat, and there is a mild burning sensation. However, I didn't panic; I stayed perfectly calm and still, as per my meditation experience. I let go and surrendered. Leo's advice is very good though on this guys, extremely comprehensive and reliable in my experience. The onset was a strange. At this time I've only had a small dose, so I can't speak for higher doses, but I can see how it might freak people out. It kind of felt like being at home with a cold, feeling fragile on a winter's day. There was some trembling, some small difficulty with breath, which I imagine might develop into shivering or shaking (maybe nausea) with higher doses, but the trick is to be OK with it. Let it be... my thoughts were as it happened - "I've taken it, so whatever happens, fuck it". Just as if you were stuck at home with a nasty cold, just don't think about it, let it be, don't react irrationally. You will be fine. Then after 15 minutes or so from initial snorting, the peak of the experience hit me. The trembling calmed, and my mind stilled. I find it very hard to put this experience into words to be honest. It was kind of similar to the state I entered when I had the awakening described above. Though this time, it endured whilst my eyes were open. There were no hallucinations, or weird sounds, no scary entities - nothing like that. I was still a body at this dosage, though I was in no way attached to it. Everything in normal experience was still there, but my god it was all so beautiful. There was nothing special about it, no psychedelic patterns or colorful lights; it was all just beautiful the way it was - without any emotional judgement or reactivity toward it all. I felt as if I had no boundaries, like I was consciousness of the universe itself. Everything was in perfect clarity - crystal clear. No sadness, no happiness. Just bliss - I now know what the word bliss actually means. It isn't what you all think. It's the state of being where attachment is relinquished, and everything in experience (including the ego) comes into clarity from the observer perspective - the true self (at least in my experience). The biggest thing I learned during this experience was that there is absolutely NOTHING to pursue. The truth is right here in front of us all - we are it with zero cognitive effort... I like Rupert Spira's analogy - we are like a screen with images projected onto it; it is impossible for the screen to seek/find itself within those images, as it is the very fabric of them. Thoughts, concepts and ideas keep our attention, and enlightenment cannot be found within them. When the mind is still, and thoughts, concepts and ideas fade, we recognise our true nature; this is what I believe 5-MeO-DMT can help us with. It is only our attention to and identification with said thoughts, concepts and ideas that perpetuate the separate self; that make us feel as if there is something out there to find. It's already here guys - you are already it. You just haven't realised yet; our true nature is aware understanding. The "best bit" of the experience lasted perhaps 15 minutes, though it felt a lot longer. I kept checking the clock during the trip. Now 5 hours later, I still have a serene sense of calm about me. There is so much less emotional resistance to everything, i.e. talking to people, doing errands, housework etc. It's all just fine the way it is. Although I've seen the truth, I can feel the state of bliss fading... but that's perfectly fine. It will come and go. Maybe one day it will endure in my experience. Who knows. Right now though, I need to focus on the here and now - I need to play the game of life. I still have so many more experiments to come with 5-MeO-DMT, but to be honest, this experience on 12mg would have been enough to give anyone "seeking enlightenment" the hope and motivation they need to move forward in their practice. Overall, and extremely positive and insightful experience. As Leo also mentions in his video, I do not recommend this substance to anyone with only elementary familiarity with psychology, spirituality, and especially non-duality and meditation... I can see for sure how some may mistake this as some ethereal, lonely, cold and desolate experience. If you've studied this stuff, you would recognise it straight away for what it is. If you've had a non-drug induced awakening experience, you'll also know what I am talking about. This substance is not the answer, nor is it a catalyst. It is important you do not get attached to these experiences. So there you go all, hope this helps some of you - please comment below or PM me (no questions about sourcing please) with questions and your experiences - I would love to share. I will keep you all posted with more experiments with 5-MeO-DMT, and higher dosages.

@Azrael @Leo Gura thanks guys, really appreciate the tips - I did hang up heat upside down over the side of my bed for 10 or so minutes, but I did keep snorting it in what I imagined was "deeper"... is that also a problem? I imagine a lot of the substance did go straight down my throat in that case ... to confirm, the trick is to get the substance up there gently, hang my head of the bedside upside down, gently massage in the substance in AND don't snort the substance any further once up there... correct?

@Travis @Feeble Dave Hey guys. Correct, no real prior experience with any psychedelics. The only significant experience I have had before was drugs was weed (2-3 years regular smoking)... obviously this did in no way prepare me for this. Like I mention in my initial post, I am in this purely to supplement my meditation practice; I had never considered psychedelics a genuine aid to this practice (always associated psychedelics with hallucinations etc). Leo'a video changed this for me; as I started looking into it this was the first time I learned about the "void" etc. in literature... this was a bit of an "aha" moment for me... I actually had experienced this state in meditation in January 2016 (discussed in original post). For me personally, my strict meditation practice as well as contemplative nonduality reading was my only preparation. At this point in my practice, I know what it is to let go... all those reservations you have in your head about the drug are just that. I think if you were ready, you'd have a gut feel - if that makes sense. Having experienced the boundaries of my body fade in meditation, and my awareness expand, gave me a lot of confidence when reading the trip reports... i can't say I've experimented with higher doses yet (and probably won't be for a few weeks), nor can I say I've optimised my snorting technique (Leo's post above), but still what I experienced on 12mg was similar (as predicted) to that which I had experienced in meditation. One worry I did have though was that I'd slip into an unconscious where maybe I'd start shouting or screaming or something ridiculous like you read in the bad trip reports. To mitigate this worry, I did this in an empty detached house, in the middle of the night (I feel calmest around the ). In lieu of an experienced trip sitter, I did this alone. My advice; be patient - don't rush into doing it. Find somewhere where you can feel cosy, comfortable, warm, safe and secure. Put your mind to rest as best you can. Get an accurate set of mg scales. Start with a very small dose 1-2mg. Then 5mg. Then 10mg. Don't jump straight into the heavy weights just in case!! Once it's snorted be ready to say "fuck it, I've done it, let's go with whatever happens". Let whatever you experience happen. Have a sick bucket ready just in case... . Prepare, but at the same time don't stress yourself out about it. If you start off at the shallow end and go into this with some maturity, I'm sure you will be OK. A good and consistent meditation practice and donduality contemplative work is your best long-term prep in my opinion. In regard to the heart question, this simply wasn't a worry of mine, although maybe it should have been... I am very active (ran 10 half marathons this year), and follow a vegan diet... rapid heart beat in exercise is something I'm very used to... my diet also gives me confidence in my heart health. In my experience with the substance, the fast heart beat was noticeable, but nothing on what you might experience say running a steep gradient uphill... although if you're not used to it, i can see why this might freak some people out a lot - particularly if you're in a unusual "trip" state so to speak. I imagine that might feel most unnerving! Hope this helps, like I said before, I'm not an experienced psychonaut by any means... but I would consider myself psychologically stable & mature.

@Capethaz from what I read on that link, that sounds extremely similar to what I experienced....

@Xpansion absolutely, it's all meaningless. I do not condone mindless drug consumption of any kind - if it is to be done, it must be done only experimentally and with education, maturity & awareness... unfortunately, we do tend to get stuck grasping at said experiences from time to time. To become dependent on a psychedelic would be to miss the very essence of the truth. It's right here; we are it. It's transparent and formless, and unfathomably beautiful. It's merely clouded. Psychedelics can be used as a tool help realise the truth, though so can vipassana (as per my first awakening)... but the important thing to remember is that the experience itself, the blissful state, as defined conceptually by the ego is not the truth. It's just another concept. All experiences are meaningless guys. Do not make concepts, goals or ideas out of them.

@John Flores I try not to embellish my experiences; the reason we suffer is because we attach so much meaning to these things. In my experience, the baggage we carry (i.e. anxieties, depression) is perpetuated by our attachments; we're just not conscious of them. You can be free my friend; I hope this substance can help you to remove the blinders, and see the true nature of reality... although you can get there without it (my opinion - see previous posts above).

Hey pal... who knows... In my experience, 5-MeO-DMT simply suppresses the ego (at at least makes it translucent) for a short period of time via chemical change. Alone this does nothing; it leaves us confused as to what just happened (i.e. ego death)... Though for those of us with a reasonable intellectual understanding of previously mentioned topics (main post), (I believe) we can comprehend said experiences, understanding them intellectually (relating them to the literature out there) as well as experientially. I think it's important (although not essential) that both aspects (experiential and intellectual) are satisfied - again, in my experience, the ego loses strength when intellectual conclusions are drawn, with the appropriate experiential evidence from our own experience to validate said conclusions. I believe our insight into the truth (and it's immediacy) develops, as our ego loses strength. Just my hypothesis; don't take it for gospel - i'm not claiming to be enlightened, this is simply what has been working for me recently. 5-MeO-DMT only produces experiences, not enlightenment... albeit, very helpful experiences if we use them for developing insight, and not recreation.

@cetus56 that's not a problem dude, glad to have helped. Yes, you're absolutely right, whilst there is some "truth" in that 'realising the truth' can take time, there is nothing "out there" or to "attain" or "pursue", so to speak. I believe the reason people struggle making this realisation, and maintaining it, is simply down to the language which we speak. We either pursue one wretched extreme or another - it's either one concept or it's not, if that makes any sense?.. probably a bad analogy (don't want to mislead people), but in the egoic state, I feel like we're like robots too fixated with our own programming to recognise our fundamental, empty nature. All concepts etc. arise within this sandbox of emptiness. In answer to your question... yes, I think so. As I mentioned in the last post, my awakening experience (not enlightenment - I'm not claiming I am) showed me the truth, though I was too early on in my practice to recognise it... the issue with awakening experiences is that whilst they show us the truth, our ego creates lies... for the best part of this past year, I have made out that experience to be some amazing, blissful state that I HAVE to return to... I admit my meditation habit fell into a neurotic disarray for quite some time in pursuit of re-attaining this state... for me, this has been an unfortunately yet necessary "waste of time". I now know it was the ego grasping; I had been caught by the "spiritual ego" - there's great video by a guy called Rali (Naked Reality - YouTube) in response to Leo on this topic. I think if you were to bring total maturity and modesty to your meditation practice and daily life, and admit you (at any point) may have fell pray to your own bullshit again (the ego, the spiritual ego - whatever you want to call it), and focus on improving your concentration (ability to let go), I'm confident you can realise the truth. My advise (as a fellow "seeker"), don't beat yourself up, be kind to yourself in your practice and humble yourself. You probably will go down some rabbit holes; but going down them, you'll learn their structure and nature - there are no mistakes. Mistakes are concepts. Just pay attention to your reality - sensory phenomena. Let the ego arise, and subside. Like a petulant child, just allow it to be. Don't grasp at the concepts it produces, or try to manipulate / organise them like some kind of computer program. Just rest in being man; take your time doing stuff, enjoy what's here. Don't be caught in the trap that life is either one thing or another. Life is perfect; we sometimes just struggle to see through the clouds. Imagine some turbid water. If we do not interfere with the water (with the ego), what happens to the particles (concepts)? What's left to see?

Interesting thread guys. I'll share something that has recently occurred whilst meditating, twice within the scope of two weeks. Firstly however, to introduce my current practice; predominantly based around 'Strong Determination Sitting' (Leo's videos) and Mindfulness (using mainly techniques from Shinzen Young, in The Science of Enlightenment - labeling, equanimity, and so on). I have meditated for at least 2 x 20 minutes, every morning and night, for around 200 days; I try to get longer sessions in at the weekends... any advice on how I should grow my practice would be greatly welcomed! Anyway, these occurrences both happened whilst diverting off from my formal meditation into a bit of a 'contemplation'. On both occasions I had been sitting there for around 15 minutes, on my longer, weekend meditations. As my attention flitted between different pieces of content in consciousness, I kept up my Mindfulness techniques, as I always do, labeling experiences i.e. Self, Other, Image, Sound, Subtle Processing and so on... I became extremely aware of the frailty of the thinking mind; I became aware (beyond subtle appreciation) that the Self was a total illusion, a system of thoughts, beliefs, categorizations etc, based on past experiences (i.e. pains and pleasures). The thing is, all this was coming from WITHIN the thinking mind... I was not yet outside of that thinking, judging, contemplating place. As I began to realize this too, small spasms began to happen all over the body periodically. Everything became (for a lack of a better description), warm, calm, tranquil, mellow, yet scary and unknown. Everything I was experiencing, in terms of the feeling body, was very strong and 'rich', and for a while I used a technique called 'Free Floating Awareness' to focus one-by-one on individual experiences that were happening throughout the body. After a while, I began to sink further and further into this state. Then it happened, the same way in both meditations. As commonly discussed in the books; I remember contemplating the possibility that what if I wasn't the thinking mind; what if the thinking mind was just like another sense perception, and my true identity was the observer. But in this state, this made total sense, in a way that I'm struggling here to put into words. It just seemed to click, it made sense, and my paradigm shifted. My whole body, as well as my mind, and my surrounding environment all came into ONE awareness, all at once. Everything was total, and complete in my experience, for that moment of time. I felt consciousness itself expand outwards in a way i cannot really describe any better. The mind, body, environment, and all sensations derived from these hung in what I can only describe as a VOID; I remember the following so strongly as a reminder of this - I was sitting cross legged, and I could feel sensations associated with this - the pressure on my butt, and the warmth of my rug, but they sort of just hung there in the void, coming from no place in particular. All these sensations just hung like stars in the night sky. I was nothing, but also everything. I know how cliche that sounds. I tried to keep focusing on individual sensations as best I could, such as my breathing... this was an overwhelming experience. My breathing felt as if I had become like some sort of enormous air billow. I became that entire sensation, hanging there in the void. Irritations were still there, massively reduced in terms of there pain... but they just sat there in the periphery, neither good or bad. However, one thing I will say is that this place can be quite scary... it is totally unknown, and the spiritually immature may find themselves getting scared, and drawn back into the thinking mind. Part of the process is to continue to observe; handle it with equanimity. Allow it to be. I can see how easy it would be to damage such experiences from my period of Mindfulness practice. Also, in hindsight, I find myself craving to be back there; I know I must not identify with these thoughts... it's like catch-22, you think you can 'think your way there'... and then you realize you're identified with those thoughts again etc etc, and the cycle goes on. It takes a lot of determination and maturity to keep going as if these experiences would never have happened; and not try to forcefully return there. These perhaps only lasted in their entirety whilst my eyes were closed, but the high consciousness state lasted for perhaps an hour or two each time, as I went off to bed. Don't know if this will make any sense to anyway, but I would love to hear any thoughts and opinions of what happened, and what it means (probably nothing )