now is forever

@Salvijus yes but that sounds more like happiness - love for life - you can have that and still struggle with reciprocal love. i mean of course it is better to be happy for example when you were married as a child to a 20 years older man. but what about it is love if it’s not there.

isn’t it also a little numbing? if you love all the time? you wouldn’t know if something would go down the stream.

it’s interesting because yes i didn’t bring up the negative aspects. the fears so to say - the shadowsides, that exist. maybe not all in me but they exist as an experiencable truth if you are observing suffering. so maybe some of them are observed sufferings we project onto the subject of our love projection as well. but what about the direct experience of self determination and the will to controll or to surrender to the moment isn’t that where all real suffering starts and is maybe ended?

yes but humans struggle. i wonder why they even take drugs to feel it. so maybe yes it is the sweetness of emotion. so you think the mind is of higher value? but the mind is even suppressing the ability to love. so the mind is the one who decides most of the time isn’t it.

@kieranperez why does it then make me so aware of the problem that this is spoken of a men’s perspective and teaches everyone just to give in more and more to love while there are some lines that have to be drawn like the line of self determination. and the problem that this is a nice theorie but in reality look how it really is. mostly if you already think that way (and often if you are female) you get exploited. i struggle completely with where to draw a line there - where is it enough, how much can i take etc. when is it ok to say no, already.

i‘m still stuck in the difference between mind and heart. i know that the first falling in love butterfly thing takes only some months - i think around three to six months. when that’s over you get confronted with the reality of twosomeness and it shows if the chemistry is right - means how much conflict arises in habits and personalities. if you manage that you can get over to a new stage and it shows how you manage to overcome all obstacles- while doing that you construct your reality around that and there are many situations where you have to make compromises to find your ultimate goal. so is love in the beginning always a projection and it shows only over time? then the other thing is how balanced is love - is there always one person who loves more and this person sit‘s on the loosing end of the seesaw? and what is onesided love isn‘t it a projection, too. so for example if someone has a lot of love to give and there is no one to recive it - will that person not search for someone else to recive that love and project it on that person and think it is the love the other person was giving while it has always been the own ability to love that brought about love. what would explain onesided love. and also that love can sometimes be overwhelming, like love of mothers. so is reciprocal love not the interaction of the ability of both projector/recivers and lies ultimately in communication? once initiated going back and forth like a pingpong ball? and at one point even forming a love space identity together. the next question is can there be love without change? i mean it’s impossible to not change. in the beginning that happens willingly and later it becomes a trap if for example both don’t find a kompromise or a konsens or one gives in to the other. i understand that love is in the end separated from thought/mind and without awareness it is not possible to live conscious love. so i don’t agree completely on: love=consciousness=god that would be too downgrading for love. love=awareness=god/consciousness would that also fit? so is it possible to talk about love as a singularity? i mean if we really go on search for it. is love not something we find around people or something we find in ourselves? and not only something we need to learn to give but ultimately also to recive without rejection even though it is less or different in quality from what we think we‘ve brought in or expected. where to draw lines - i really don’t know anymore.

@Jol356 it’s one step after the other

@tsuki it comes from the place of questioning. i just realized how much love i get here!!! that’s really heart warming! sorry tsuki i know that i set myself being stuck in the corner (even though it was not the latter). i can’t leave it based on nothing - i use to not make head over heals decisions. you are right i must make decisions but it all feels like thin air and i use to make decisions on matter. and actually it really is a determinism problem, as marlene dietrich used to sing (well not the whole song but the refrain): “i don’t know to whom i belong to, i think i belong to me all myself” the heart does not „think“ all by itself it’s not the quality it owns. (so yes no reason or maybe the only one)

@tsuki the problem is it is a self feeding predator it is just ugly and absolutely not dangerous. it is only dangerous for people who are in love despite the ugliness. the moment it’s not dangerous to loved ones anymore it just showes it’s only ugly and nothing else. so why am i not allowed to be ugly?

thought so - no answers to these questions.

magic!

sometimes and tonight my glas fills with sweet wine so much i can’t hide from decline does this truth ever change and do i get the whole range? will i still find my way in the grand wheel of decay can i gather true truth until we subdue to the meaning of love.

@Zweistein thank god it is weekend!

opening pandora’s box i don’t really expect answers.

@Jol356 thanks, hope you overcome it. i hope i‘ll overcome my love addiction soon that’s the other side of the medal. for the smoking really try the l- theanin it’s the best thing @Colin ever recommended to us. thanks ?

@tsuki sorry im very cynical today. i guess it will only take some hours and i‘ll be the motivation clown again. thank you. i‘m really thankful somehow it’s mostly the other way round - i listen others getting cynical and as soon as i start no one seems to allow it. really what does anybody expect of me? so why are they still doing it?

@tsuki yeah if someone removes the we from the i=you=we definitely. and what happens if a fourth leg appears what would that be? a three legged stool stands better than a four legged stool. did you know that? that is really a mindfuck. but i guess a two legged stool just needs a wall to lean against if it’s well constructed. so a two legged stool can still find a community. it‘s still a designer peace tsuki. if i don’t think about where to get a second leg from. dealing drugs here is not allowed, do you think i could try sperm dealing? no. mhh i thought so. is it getting very ugly? that’s how ugly i feel at the moment. but it won’t get uglier than this. it’s all just trade isn‘t it? it got uglier. and no one is taking responsibility except for yourself. fuck off world i‘m so sick of it. that is as ugly as it can get isn’t it. that’s when all dreams have been schattered and no hope is left. but hey tomorrow i will smile again because there are many people who feel worse than me. and here comes the at least: at least you realized it before you had children.

and@tsuki both exist simultaneously it’s only about the value you give your own heart if you can stop zooming - it’s all about equilibrium to get to @Zweisteins trinity.

@Zweistein the problem is with those kind of eyes you can’t see anything in the mirror. in the end that’s the biggest problem with the mirror you can see anything else but yourself clearly. i’m sure it preserves us from seeing our own ugliness. always hunting for being seen in a better light trying to make us look better than we do in the end just for our own eyes, to keep a facade of ourselfs after we have bleeded out for something. that’s a negative spiral. and i guess a seekers shadow. gnothi seauton was written at the oracles entrance. what a massive joke that was. and at the same time the wisest words ever.

@Zweistein thank you you manage the water very well ? some drops of saltwater can’t be bad for plants ? can they.

@tsuki this would be a dream: so maybe it’s really about how the others want to see us and how we want to see others. maybe i am a blind ugly preditor with a light on my forehead. maybe i got the picture not right. and maybe i always want to look pretty even while dying.

@tsuki how pretty... but it’s not deep sea diving at the moment. if i wanted to look more pretty maybe i was a predator like that:

@tsuki do you know these lamps people put on their head to walk into a cave. i try to get one like that here. maybe it’s the kind of predator i am.