now is forever

be carful about china, i didn’t experience anything like child workers in china. they have some really bad working conditions there and a hell of air pollution, but no child workers.

there is also a theory about learning with the material and in the surrounding you have to perform in. could also be a scent. if you think of it as a space you open inside of you. the trick though is to have the scent with you while performing.

?????????????? that made my day.

where did you find the learning curves? did you develop the technique? do you think we could make some kind of new technique out of it?

@Zweistein hahaha i’m in berlin - there is a lot of order you know that already, so what am i telling you. from order to order.

@Zweistein there is a story from a friend of mine - she met a man on the street with her doughter. the man asked if it was her only child and she said yes and he said: one child is dictatorship, two children is war but three children is democracy. there is something to it. just a wisdom. non personal. thank you for the surrender = resistance analogy. i had something like that in mind, too, but only as an option, became more aware of it - the question is just where to surrender and where to resist. and still be like a child. chaos magic is just one hell of a thing.

no - i wouldn’t stop, too. yes i will have the patience, you can always say no, too. it’s an invitation though for others... you see if there is no one to work on a problem, there is no one to work on the problem. that’s democratic. doesn’t mean the problem is resolved then. it just remains unsolved until it’s solved. at least we don’t want to get the darwin award. it’s some kind of funny though. and sad. and triggers arrogance. it means it massively triggers orange. maybe i still don’t get the colours right.

yes but there is if you are centered in yourself it’s not a bottom but the outside is bottomless until it reaches some kind of other. if you see infinity, then yo can even see who is some kind of other just by smiling. i mean in recognizing other. it doesn’t mean there is nothing to work on anymore. it just get’s too many options for a problem solver - so you work where you meet meaning. until someone tells you to stop or you find some problems solved at least. it sounds naive, but it isn’t it’s just foolish.

@tsuki that’s not true. there is a middle matrioshka. and it never gives up, that’s the problem, how can someone give up while reaching out for infinity. it’s just that infinity sometimes grows over the head. but now you are zooming again... giving up a relational system on the basis of education, that was quiet reflected... and often self introduced is not wise to give up. you both play a little good cop bad cop. while i’m asking for the relevance of this project.

@Zweistein i don’t get it it’s a strangeloop in some aspects. there is no stop to growing i just also learned how to point fingers, to mushrooms. no one ever said to stop pointing fingers at mushrooms and then if it’s possible to study them all - would need a lot of time doing that - usually it’s only about studying one at a time , and then cooking something out of them. poisonous mushrooms are something else...they can blow you away. so better microdose them... said alice and shrunk or grew. so should we stop that project or not? is it any relevant?

@tsuki yes so it still has to be about money...personal benefits....freedom from blue. maybe i’m to far away from that. or too green myself. maybe i don’t have any news for that, just that the hipster industry is quiet something to trigger/challenge that. isn’t it already to deep in the details?...like zweistein said. it feels like just repeating school content. so i would go back to the mushrooms. ?

@tsuki yes orange needs another approach one that’s more status relevant. like health, and identification and group dynamics and profit. longtime not short time. orange would not go to participative green spaces, so those have to be built in neglected spaces. orange would profit from them though.

mhhh yes and no, stage green can also educate yellow and turquoise - if it’s not solide... because green is body and health and ecological relevant. green needs certainly more space not only in our minds, but also in cities and companies. participative is the best.

@Zweistein well maybe we have to climb a wall first. and maybe we have to change directions if we are at the lowest point or at the highest point but at the end, does it really matter if we go up or down the stairs.... i would prefer going up though. even though it’s maybe more challenging, but we can build some muscles there. going down is for relaxation. depends on what we see in it... in some aspects it shouldn’t be a downward spiral. it’s good to realize that. think it has something to do with emotional mastery - to change directions. it’s on the sheet, too. so that’s a basic tool i guess. maybe that symbol has to be on one of the stones? could also be a -> that’s pointing up or down. so we would need to decide, how many stones are there? are there more stones than one or two... on the sheet they have one for emotional mastery, one for finding inner stillness, how to make a business and how relationships work out.... at da. it’s the same.... did i just spill beans... don’t get it...

@tsuki hahaha yes it’s going up and it’s not going up.... but at least it doesn’t feel meaningless.

mhhh - that would be something like a mushroom - you only see the mushrooms that stick out their head but the real mushroom is underneath. someone in yellow could collect mushrooms... and put them into a basket. maybe that’s more a map for yellow. mhhhh someone in turquoise would certainly just let them be, and just let them communicate, while always knowing where they are to find.

if we would use the symbols like a mind map, ( i used to call something like that a cognitive map ) it would not be relevant to know what stage someone is solid in - it would only show what stages someone has to transcend specifically. for example politics - they could figure out where they are indoctrinated in and what they dream it to be. they could mirror that one to any other symbol in lines (maybe in drawing or some kind of stone or magnet etc) and see how that has effects on their body level how they behave at home etc. what that meant to them in their family and if they acted accordingly or if there are paradoxes. could also help to find out where they got certain beliefs from, how these beliefs are intertwined with other religions and find new elements for their beliefs. all to search for new information and then transcend it. it could be helpful especially for those who faced nothingness. it would be something like the life game. something like a thread to hold on, something to really put the belief/spirit in relation to everyday life.

@Zweistein he would be green then.... ?

@Zweistein what colour?

@Zweistein mhhh there is also a book that’s called women who run with the wolves - think it contains a lot of good stories, too. a friend of mine told me in brazil they read and discuss it in groups. it basically says every fairytale contains some kind of thread for the subconsciousness to work on inner problems. sometimes it’s maybe not good to think of these books as hammered in stone. so i can totally understand why you want to work them over. puhhhh, i’ll let that sink in.

mhhh yes, that’s why it would be better if there was a tool. so everyone could handle their own zoo. i’m sure we are getting confronted with the cycle in different situations.... so it’s difficult to include all possible symbols. but the symbols are something that could be researched by the people themselves. they just have to be found somewhere.

@Zweistein i started to listen to it yesterday and remember there was a thread about recontextualizing or integrating eastern symbols more. don’t know if it was about the hero with a thousand faces. also fell asleep halfway. but i see where the dragon slayer came from.

i think so... isn’t yoga embodiment, or learning to ride a bike, surfing, playing an instrument? or learning to work with the hands... also sexuality, or just touching someone other. if the body is aligned with the spirit isn’t that embodiment? and embodiment is also the prana body. tsuki you just push me back into the phantasy world.

think if we use symbols, and make a tool like a mind map or something to draw on, everyone can put their stage in the different categories, themselves and just know where they are at. mhhh - i think it might not be unusable but maybe just not yet developed enough. maybe it’s also possible to colour the symbols... might be better do develop it digital... but i like to work on the wall so something like a printable mindmap to download would be nice, too. how are all stages the same? your personal stages or stages of others?

@tsuki mhh yes - i don’t know it. but it bears also resemblance to the bauhaus structure and to the structure of the buddhist wheele of rebirth and death. so it could also be used to figure that out.... not exactly, maybe but if we visualize circles in general as fragments of symbols it could be helpful. not to forget spiral dynamics.