now is forever

whohooo guys - you‘re getting so in a dynamic where it starts to be pointless for me to even loose my time here. the combination of you both is quiet toxic. i guess that’s because of the personal level. guess too much arrogance here...? maybe a problem of defragmented fragments?

sorry dudes it’s refragmentation time - maybe tomorrow

fragmentation and codependency are actually one and the same movement of space-division.

just got involved with a thought of a person. why am i in any position to explain myself, by the way?

puhh now you are asking a loooooooot.

do you think he asked for it then? as i had that topic already with someone else, i know the answer.

hahaha - no i won‘t analyze the appearance of a person here. thought you where talking about the topic. maybe you ask him yourself?

yes...i tried that... so which problem of the many referenced?

oh i mean i know that he is not expecting answers - so i give him some... you can call me bro and dude, it’s ok for me sis.

@Jack River i know that he is not. but that’s exactly why i do that and because he‘s talking about two of my favorite topics: fragmentation and codependency. that triggered me (and i’m a sis, no dude, maybe a dudette if you prefer adding genders)

where i‘m staying in india right now i can see a lot of eagles. sometimes very close because they land in the trees. and i can also hear them sing, it’s more singing than crying...in reality. so today i searched online for the meaning of the eagle in hindu believe system and stumbled upon garuda. the vehicle of vishnu, the protector. guess what there is a military formation named after garuda that looks like a labyrinth it’s called Padmavyuha. how funny again - the labyrinth is really appearing everywhere, maybe it’s better to make it our strategy than to fight against it, i mean life. the garuda is interesting in many ways especially in sense of breathing techniques - Garuda is the concentrated vayu power developed from the highest form of kumbhaka (breath-suspension) which is under full control of Vishnu. that’s an invitation for pranayama i guess. and as i stopped smoking the day of the flight - that seems much more possible now.

hehe. i said good morning, because i just woke up. refered to the initial post, not the later conversation, which took a different direction. figured out that the essence of faceless post was about the reflection of social life and the problem to bring reality together with idealized reality. and the problem between state and subject. what is mainly a problem of wrong practical models and wrong application of theory even though the theory might be good and helpful in a technical sense. ( wrong=disfunctional ) regarding the self: the model of building a self in my understanding is an adaption of new knowledge to already present knowledge. but before knowledge comes experience, and experience is perceived as fragments - because it is channeled. and these fragments are put together in the self as forfiltered fragments, so the self keeps only what it is able to keep or process. every unneeded data is just deleted, defragmentated. that’s what makes the self think of itself as one and what makes it so difficult to change preconceptions. i find it quiet irritating as to speak of fragments per se because they are one at first, then we split them up into fragments to introspect and work on them until we set them together again. i might not talk about the same fragment but never mind, if you don‘t like it just skip it. society again: his last question might have been rethorik - but i handled it as a question. the answer is we need more organical political models to apply to organical societies. i see how confusing my post was. maybe still is.

@Faceless morning . just read the initial post again - guess you where mainly talking about the fragmentation between thought/self and action then? could you think about defragmentation as a model and maybe not a wording for how the self is built? i just find it irritating to always talk about fragments - it’s not obvious when the fragments are perceived as one and when the fragments are perceived as fragments... an answer to your last question could be: yes, and that’s why we need organic models.

no, not entirely. i would replace identification with overidentification. and the self is an urge.

yes.

would you say someone without memory is not?

yeah that’s why we have to break preconceptions. by observing ourselves. but what is this about now? if i got it all? did you get what i was saying?

what do you mean with movement of the observer? because there is no individuality and no choice? or because there is no objective reality, and that would mean the observer splits up the universe into fragments of universes to observe the universe in fragments, while it is all one? but it is only all one because the observer defragmented it before if you start splitting it up again and observe the fragments you can fill in empty spots.

i guess i don‘t get that entirely, i see it like this: there is no unconditioned observation...because observation is already preconditioned - that’s what i mean with the attempt of the individual to defragment the observed. as the observed is fragmented. initially, this was about the fragmented sensory perception - but i guess it would also fit to observation of the inner fragmentation.

yes, of course... you also asked the question: is it? when the first need ever is the urge for life, being constantly threatened by no life/death, that’s fear. so is it separate from fear or not separate? with devided action you want to point at the phenomenon of wanting, feeling this or that and acting differently?

@Faceless wait a minute. guess we are talking about different fragmentations. i guess there are more but i listet the ones that i thought of in this context. fragmentation of time fragmentation of senses, perception fragmentation and splitting of personality into i and whatever (controller, ego etc) fragmentation of “handlungsraum“ something like „action rooms“ or „activity zones“ in society

yes, mhh but it’s at least the attempt to defragment reality - what’s left is only the „useful“ part everything „unuseful“ doesn’t even reach the controll unit. if you talk only about fragmentation it’s difficult to understand how the ego builds up a sense of self.

@Zweistein who is the guy lounching a rocket? is it the same as on the underwater love picture of the two fish?

very interesting! would like to add this: fragmentation is not only a problem of the i and the controller of the i. it is also a problem of the we and the controller of the we. controll does not start by fragmentation it usually starts with defragmentation, as the world from the individual view is fragmented, through division. the controller in that sense sets together the devided perception to a defragmented reality and fills in the empty parts, what makes the individual fragmented from another perspective. if the controller is able to see this defragmented reality in fragments again, it is more easy to fill in the empty spots by observation, instead of preconception. perception, thought and emotion perceived put together as one, are the defragmentation for the survival of the individual (fear/urge) but bring about fragmentation and division in the social world because we use to see them as one with the individual and not as a defragmented reality with some parts missing. does that fit?

to defragment this a little bit, can we understand, that veganism is the most preferable nutrition form for the future? vegans have made it possible, that the world is slowly changing awareness and more and more people turn to at least vegetarianism. and there still is a lot of work to do for vegans to make this community grow. but maybe we have to accept, that it’s almost impossible to severe the whole world from the domestication of animals and from eating them. (i‘m in india at the moment and it’s so obvious why the cow is an holy animal here, because they need the dairy products) farming animals in a more humain way and only eating meat occasionally would be a way also in other countries. we could also come to the conclusion that veganism and more ecological animal friendly ways of farming are the preferable alternative, unfortunately there are meatarians out there who almost made a religion out of meat eating, i guess some of them have darker ego reasons than health. we could also come to the conclusion, that there is a problem we can’t solve by just not eating animals anymore - it’s the problem of hyper industrialization and a crisis of overproduction of food in general, also plants, and how this industry eats up our health and contributes to mal nutrition (so far for now). this whole meat industry is a codependency to the carnivore. and it’s an interdependency with gene manipulation and pesticides/chemical industry. and it would be an illusion if we would think veganism could change that on its own. the other point is, how can we change bad nutrition through veganism? think it’s a matter of finding the healthy form of veganism. just not eating meat does not mean it’s a healthy nutrition - eating healthy without meat is a complete philosophy! no wonder people like to chose simple ones (meatarian that’s it...) @AMS in my perspective i can understand that someone is totally smashed if „meat“ healed an illness, but did you ever try other methods? as i understood it, it is not the meat that heals, but the absence of the unhealthy, so the cow has been your medicine completely unintentionally - while there could also be other methods, just not yet known or less easily to approach. methods like going raw or feasting? or doing a gut refurbishing, with healthy bacteria etc.? i guess you really found a good medicine for your problem, but don‘t confuse medicine for food - even though food and no food can be medicine.