now is forever

guess you both are a nice pairing (as teacher - student, student - teacher) have both very different experiences in sense of group experiences. can we see that it is our identification in a group with similar goals and the rejection or acceptance that makes us grow? can we see that authenticity in our action makes us grow? even though we sometimes have to suffer through it? it‘s a matter of how healthy a group behavior is if someone in the group will become the controller and another one the controlled or if the control is balance. can we see it’s not about the people who seem untouchable because they are indisputable in their thoughts or actions, because of their lack or our lack to challenge their authority? it is about how much power we give them. (that goes for society as for our thoughts. real controllers are torturers in many dimensions, i‘m glad no one here is that way!)

i had a look at your profile - and stalked your hometown ...in that sense. chinese people can be tough - are those people who try to controll you still around you? or are they now just present in your psychological past?

you live in north india, don’t you? do you feel it’s a privilege going to school? is it a hard pressure? it seems you are happy about it. or did someone tell you, you have to be happy about it? sorry for these personal questions. but fear is different, in different circumstances and different ages. how old are you? younger than eighteen? i just ask, because i remember my school days - and remember how this time was full of questions about life. even in university... it didn’t stop, but the questions changed. so i just wanted to ask you, so we older ones including the surfer dude could step back into another psychological time.

yes they seem alike, but are not. they have a volume have a space have a context. fragments not. they are just fragments. partitions/worlds are made of defragmented perceptions and they are codependent and interdependent. you can always remove misconceptions from partitions...further defragment or refragment the content, adding new context. every partition has an ego on its own, if you know about it or not.

is there any possibility we can see that in a person what was called fragments are not fragments but partitions?

it’s easy to use fragmentation as a wording but it doesn’t mean it is the right model for the self. even though thoughts might be fragmented, feelings might be fragmented, memories might be fragmented. but the self is defragmented with all it‘s functions and dysfunctions, better keep on defragmenting, dysfunctions.

@Jack River guess you are not really at that point yet. hope it at least felt good!? sympathetic/empathetic is something else though. guess everything before the smile counts. are you noticing psychological time?

idiot i take it as a yes. your problem if that’s not the case. maybe use your beach knowledge more wisely? btw use your beach wisdom with a little more knowledge?

so can you understand yourself not only as divided attention but as an attention splitter yourself?

this thread partially is a really nice example on male chauvinism at work - hope what i‘m reading is the awareness of such. it‘s not exactly sexy to watch a male group masturbation. conversation is always also political. but chauvinism isn‘t exactly male emancipation. because it isn‘t exactly democratic to just have a yes or no voice @Jack River just to have a voice at all. can you realize when you are doing that? can you realize how you influence a conversation with that? that you are not an observer while doing that, but a hand holding a *beep.

fragmentation of time - because impossible to discuss it somewhere else. i have to take that up in here. it’s possibly an egoic reason, because that word is one of my favorites since almost 7 years now. and for me it felt like it was abused today. fragmentation of time for me is the intermittence between different time sequences we use to do or think something. the longer the sequence the less the fragmentation. today it was used to describe the division of thought and action, and the division of our internal and external worlds - i think that sounds cool and maybe seductive. but it’s way to complicated and disturbing to describe the splitted identities we want or want not to accept, with a concept of fragmentation. it‘s not exactly fitting to say space is fragmented. space is boardered and divided, but it’s not fragmented. it gets only fragmented if we move through it, through our perception. be that in thought or physically, the faster we move the more fragmented. the faster the world around moves us, the more fragmented. but that doesn’t go for a healthy movement, if this process is healthy we call it rhythm instead. well basically the theory about fragmentation of time came from the understanding, of a comonly wrongfully perceived space-time division. i‘m not saying this is true but in my experience it is. i found it espessially worthy in describing the phenomenon of fragmentation of time through technology and information overflow. and how our life gets fragmented with it.

you are already under control. i understood that. if you would have read the conversation from the start you would understand. but i‘m sure he is maybe misconcepted in some of his „understanding“ because it’s not a fact - if there are no facts. sorry i meant, i understood the thing about fragmentation. i even remember talking in another thread in may about fragmentation of time, i guess he was present then. do you now understand my movement of thought?

be careful of yourself. you are very close to selfdeception. what you write is neither a fact nor are you an authority. your „facts“ are indisputable, that’s a fact. there is surely some truth in your words, but you where outing yourself as a controller here. are you aware of that?

? sorry i just had to throw up somewhere - watching ego‘s polishing their diamonds. guess i really, really underestimated the significance of codependency - especially in group dynamics (of male) - well yeah i experienced something like that during adolescence, but i guess i forgot, because i use to walk away the minute i reek it. it’s not fear, it’s simply disgust, it’s an instinct.

the urge for life is not fear, it is the urge for love. „Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high Where knowledge is free Where the world has not been broken up into fragments By narrow domestic walls Where words come out from the depth of truth Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit Where the mind is led forward by thee Into ever-widening thought and action Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.“ Rabindranath Tagore (written for india)

guess it’s not really about understanding here. it’s just another wake up thread. feeding the ego. so sad fragmentation and codependency get wasted here like fast food. bye bye friends.

wait a minute - not fear but male ego. for me it’s a conditioning to turn around and walk away. that‘s love for life, not fear. or did you feed your own fear?

let‘s define control here: control of the mind over the heart. control over a conversation. control of the body? control of emotions? control of thoughts. control over people. control of mind. control over time. control over information. control over knowledge..... does it always imply division? i guess you are talking about relationship here? and guess you are talking about human relations in general? or does it include men women relations?

read your own thoughts then - who is biased? who controls? who is divided?

and you notice that any minute, second? or do you not notice that any minute second?

so is it of any meaning to take up the original discussion? or is it just an oracle not to be solved? btw not to be falsified? time-fear? are you kidding me? @Faceless sometimes it sounds like nonsense. i‘m asking myself if you understood all of what you where writing there in the firstplace.

Yes. Due to not seeing there is only control or the (positive-negative) movement in motion, and not really a division between the controller and the controlled. Control arises from that division not being seen through actually.

so what is false division and what is natural division? where are the boundaries of division? a different person doesn’t turn into us just because we decided the person is same as us. only by deciding we are the same as them we can learn. the problem is not the fragments alone. it is our disability to make sense out of them, btw it’s our disability to see others without preconception. preconception is also not knowing to not know and being blind to it.

@Jack River you understand that in yourself? it’s impossible to communicate on a deeper level if you are not aware of how you are trying to not communicate, because you got the answer already figured out for yourself. could also mean from my perspective addressed to you: i understand that in myself. it’s impossible to communicate on a deeper level if you are not aware of how you are trying to not communicate because you got the answer already figured out for yourself. or from your perspective: do i understand that in myself? it’s impossible to communicate on a deeper level if i‘m trying to not communicate because i got the answer already figured out. did i? is there any possibility to be wrong if we think we are right?

@Jack River the same as you... pressing buttons. i just know that i‘m doing it. (what doesn’t mean i took the role of every woman in that)