Tetcher

Well I don't know for him, probably since he doesn't answer. But when you say "we" this is definitely projection.

Yes tripping is not too different than binging except if you can monetize the content of your trips. But reading 111111 trip report I fail to see how he is above what he accuses you of.

How is your trip more than a fun experience than what he described here ?

@Leo Gura I reread your post and I see your point. You are worried about suffering and life long unfullfilment if you don't accept the experiences that you had thanks to psychedelics as part of existentially meaningful growth. I have a question for you however. Do you have clarity on these questions : -If your psychedelics supply goes dry for years will your spiritual satisfaction remain at the level it is currently ? -if you have a heart attack or other sudden death will you be able to conduct your death gracefully (at least without panicking) ?

@purerogue he says ego is necessary to operate in this world, he has a calculated ego which makes sense if he is free from karma.

@Arhattobe your description of spirituality seems a lot saner to me than what Leo describes even in this thread. Leo seems to have an urge to call himself awakened/enlightened that feels like self deception. What do you say about Sadhguru. He claims complete liberation from karma and says that 80years after leaving the body his being will also disappear whereas other beings like the Buddha are still here. Also are you aware of those beings that are supposed to be still around ? I'm not experiencing such things.

If one needs an example of how one can be deceived up until the end this would be a good one.

Psychedelics will show you their own things in their own way. Even if you experience ego wash the background feeling of the whole trip, during the trip or after ego reforms, is still very psychedelic in nature. And once you falsely think you attained to truth there is no guarantee that you will be able to get higher order of truth through stable meditation. Typically look at the enlightenment video from Leo. He's having some experience, at the beginning he is very excited and in awe then near the end he's getting more depressed and bored, the swing of mood is caused by the psychedelic, this is not different than alcohol. And this mood is the important point actually not the content of the trip that he's describing. Leo is an intense seeker and he may arrive to the ultimate someday but so far I am not convinced. Actualized.org is a nice cozy place that he built for himself and others, but he built it at a time when he was not taking psychedelics, since then he's taking them and I don't see much growth, he simply living in the continuity of what he initiated then. The psychedelics, by giving him a sense of being in truth, enabled him to get a very assertive and dismissive tone on this forum and in his videos and I can see he's enjoying it a lot. But he better be sure he's not missing the point entirely. The worst part is that he knows what I'm speaking about. In a video he described actualized.org as "solid shit " as opposed to the liquid shit of mainstream culture. That is in line with my understanding. But despite knowing this he still decides to be complacent with it... So yes, I think op is closer to enlightenment than psychonautes because without support of any kind he was able to do the practices for 2years, he shouldn't waste that. Psychedelics will only make him hallucinatory.

I think you should keep doing your work. You seem very dedicated, you managed to follow such discipline without prior use of psychedelics. Psychedelics will take you in another direction. If you get there with psychedelics you will be dependent on them to have experiences. If you get there through meditation it will be a highway for growth. Try them if you wish but there is no guarantee it will not close doors for you.

You had your first episode after 3months of daily meditation. What meditation was this ? We can do a lot of things sitting with eyes closed. Also you said nothing about psychedelics, what was the gap between your last trip and your psychotic episode ?

I am more or less in a similar position as you are as I am contemplating between investing my life into programming or monkhood. Investing your life into programming for the sake of your career would be stupid as when we die we lose all the accumulations, this is a losing investment in regard to your eternity. But if it is a mean to creating a beautiful life then this can make sense.

You don't want to but you anyway are, you think you are nobody's slave in this society ? You think aren't already a cog ? By consciously yielding to an order or even directly a guru you just cut out the crowd of middle men that make you believe in the lie that you are independent in this society. You are basically complaining about your impotency but when someone suggests you a solution that may help you to move on you suddenly want to be strong and independent.

That's the problem with changing ones life through a conscious choice. One may be able to sustain a life hygiene that seemed impossible shortly before but the fall can be as quick as the rise, it takes just one day where you fail to stick to the routine and boom, all gone as if all this work never took place. I'm sure that during those 2years you felt like you understood the key of your newly gained strength, that you couldn't fall anymore but as you can see it takes one little impurity (the belief that you're not exactly doing what you want, or other untold) to make you fall exactly where you were 2years before. If you do a LSD trip it should give you the strength to come back to your life hygiene, then it's up to you not allow yourself a single failure. But the remaining impurities need to be dealt with it this will keep happening. I don't know how to do that you need to figure for yourself. If you do what others tell you (hit bottom rock, take vacation) there may be no coming back to the life hygiene that you knew, don't allow more time to pass out of it.

You are flattering me

In the materialist paradigm psychedelics are just drugs that make fancy things to the brain which then generates fancy experiences. But what are they existentially, they make us able to experience our existential self. So right now I am trapped in my patterns, I pop up a pill which is also a pattern but that makes my patterns starts behaving in such a way that at some point I get to experience something existential. Anyone has a framework on how that works ?

What I mean here is that I would see them as an energy pattern that alter the energy pattern formed by the karmic structure of our accumulations. What I struggle to understand is the mechanics of how bondaging patterns can arrange themselves in such a way that truth arises.

@Leo Gura how come you didn't become mad after experiencing this ? And how do you come back to Leo after such a trip, did you never face a difficulty to come back ?

This is what psychedelics do to you when you take too often or too long. Notice that you wrote that you are in a compulsive pattern that as soon as you get better you resume your compulsions that invariably lead to a peak of frustration after some time. I can't help you because I suffer the same pattern. I joined an ashram so at least for a few months I can't indulge as easily we'll see if it helps in the end. I'm still indulging in this forum apparently. Only thing I can say to you is to stop psychedelics because the frustration may grow so strong that you may lose it.

Sadhguru is just fooling around, he completed his life purpose 20years ago. Now he simply does everything to bring a spirituality to the maximum number of people. He has an extremely multidimensional life, trying to label him is pointless.

Wtf this post it's like a drug dealer complaining that he wasn't able to get his client hooked enough.

I have to give @fabriciom credit here. Promoting such drugs to mass seems irresponsible, many people will lose their balance. Martin Ball wrote in his book that at one point he wasn't able to come back, very easy to freak out and go somewhere from where you won't come back. Sure for people for whom this worked they may think that's the way. Also Leo has built a career out of it but I'm not sure an engineer that has to use his mind in a certain way could have such trips and still be effective at his work. Finally people on this forum that say it worked for them, okay you had some nice trips and insights but to what extent did it really transform your life or experience of life ? Do you have to sustain it with regular trips ? Try one year without it and tell us where you are in life. Remember that when you will be dead you won't be able to consume psychedelics.

From the way you behave and speak I take it that you consider yourself enlightened. In your framework you got 'enlightenement experiences' and keep having them so that's well enough, intellectualy you know your true nature from the memory you have of your experiences. Now it's all about the 'embodiement' and trying to carry the experience longer. But something tells me that's not it. You don't exude the same vibe as Martin Ball, you seem restless, still seeking. Zenkei Shibayama (1894-1974), overseer of the large Rinzai Zen Nanzen-ji branch of temples, once related: “There is a common saying [in Japanese Zen], “Miso (bean paste) with the smell of miso is not good miso. Enlightenment with the smell of enlightenment is not the real enlightenment.” Not sure what it tells about me that I feel the need to post this tho.

Many times in your videos you would speak from the stand point of enlightenment even if you weren't it a the moment so I assumed that you considered yourself enlightened, my bad. I see that whether you are in an awakened state of consciousness after 5meodmt or in you're everyday unawakened state of consciousness in both cases you are missing the point to realize. Hence the Zen quote. As for Martin I too can see that he is enlightened. The strongest hint is that he's been exactly the same since his enlightenment 8years ago. When you watch sadhguru 15years ago he's speaking exactly the same things that he does nowadays. This stability over the decades is a powerful hint. But those are just my 2cents as I'm not enlightened not did I go for a full release dose, so don't mind me.

Would you say that Martin Ball is enlightened ? What did he manage to do/stop doing that you didn't yet ? ___________________________________ THE TRULY WISE OLD MONK A young Zen monk was recognized by his teacher as having experienced an initial breakthrough enlightenment (Japanese: satori, kensho). His teacher then told the young man that, for realizing complete, irreversible enlightenment (Sanskrit: anuttara-samyak-sambodhi), he would need to study under a certain wise old master whose small temple was situated in another part of the country. And so the young man set off to meet the old master. After several weeks of travel, he finally arrived at the remote temple. The sentry told him that all the other monks were meditating or working at their daily chores, and sent the young man straightaway to the shrine hall to meet the venerable master. Entering the shrine hall, the young monk espied an old man doing repeated prostrations to a simple statue of the Buddha, softly chanting the name of Buddha Amida (who saves all sentient beings from suffering). The young man was shocked. Having realized from his teacher the basic truth that the Self or Buddha-nature is formless openness-emptiness, utterly transcendent and all-pervasive, he was a bit disturbed to see the old man apparently still caught up in such “dualistic” practices—ritually bowing to an idol and chanting with devotion to a mythical Buddha. And so he came up to the aged monk, introduced himself, and, from his “truly enlightened” perspective, proceeded to lecture the old man on the futility and stupidity of worshiping mere forms. Finally, his brief rant over, he realized that, having traveled such a long way to meet the “master,” he should probably ask the old monk for whatever wisdom he had to share. “So, old man, what can you tell me about full enlightenment?” In response, the master smiled, said nothing, and resumed sincerely bowing in gratitude before the statue of the Buddha, gently invoking the Name of Amida on behalf of all beings…. And, in a flash, the young man fully understood the way of complete spirituality, and he, too, spontaneously began to bow to the Buddha, right alongside the old master.

But you are the blue people too...