sholomar

When were they ever not behaving this way in the evolutionary history of our species? Who's to say what a person "should" behave like? Isn't it better to have freedom to express oneself than say be caught under an autocratic dystopian society where even facial expressions and emotional reactions are controlled by the state? Didn't we create a society so people could do exactly what they are doing today... finding their own path through life their own way? Do you think people should be socially conditioned to be polite and selfless and disregard their genetic nature? That takes control over people. What level of control we decide to implement over a society and human behavior will always be the subject open for debate depending on who you are talking too. Who decides what behavior is "correct" will tend to always change and you will never have a society that pleases everyone, nor can you expect people to simply "do the right thing" without rules telling them what "the right thing" actually is. If the society can please the majority while progressing our scientific understanding of this reality while generally providing people with a safe place to "find themselves" (as opposed to being drones in some autocratic collective) I would consider that a success.

It provides a fixed asset that can't be debased and they can't mine more of it out of the ground. The value it has is the value people are willing to pay for it. They print a lot of money globally and debase a lot of currencies. For some countries it's a really good choice compared to their native currencies.

Urine therapy, P&B Shakes, drinking sodium chlorite (MMS), drinking hydrogen peroxide, coffee enemas, liver flushes, colonics, making kefir using actual grains, alkaline diet.... I'm trying to think of every alternative medicine practice I stumbled across on curezone over the years. Didn't do all these but am aware of them. All my health problems were caused by my emotional/mental state and thoughts/programming from childhood. None of this stuff was going to work, and typically doesn't work for people into natural medicine. About the only things that do actually heal or have some effect are water and dry fasting, whether intermittent or extended. That and radical acceptance of what is... oh and friendship and laughter.... anything that activates the ventral vagal response, I mean real playfulness with others including touch.

Seems to me one can intellectually be at one level and animalistically at another. Meaning the intellectual understanding of a subject is not embodied by the emotional/animal state. One could be a highly intelligent person who is very self aware and perhaps a serial killer. Doesn't seem to me that people can fit into a single stage, and they tend to be a mixture of stages. Unless spiral dynamics specifically states that a stage yellow or higher must hold a higher emotional/moral state as a default and not be some emotionless psychopath, which around 5% of the population tend to be, higher in the top of the power structure (CEOs, billionaires) Green tends to be a bit naive to human nature and get used by lower stages. They don't know how to deal with lower stages other than trying to convert them, and getting upset when the converting doesn't take hold. The type of nation building and cultural conditioning they are trying to achieve is a decades long process, and is indeed a giant work in progress. People today lack patience and have limited attention spans. They want everything done now.

Thank you for saying it in a way I tried to figure out how too, op. What you're describing is simply stage green thinking. All tier one stages want to convert each other to their stage. I respect Leo and this group here, so I'm genuinely interested to see how the next 4+ years play out, to see if it ends up as bad as everyone here thinks.

And you think all this would have been avoided had we voted for democrats?

There are various books on the idea that stress and bad thinking themselves cause most body issues that are chronic in nature such as GERD, IBS, Fibromyalga, etc. Open Focus brain, The power of Now, Letting Go and Healing and Recovery (David Hawkins), Your Survival Instinct is Killing you, and of course Joe's Books such as "Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself" all books that revolve around the theme that mindfulness (sitting in a room, doing nothing) will help heal the nervous system through activating the ventral vagal system. But really you need more than just mindfulness, but playful socialization. Being playful. Having Friends. Introverts are at a disadvantage in this regard due to our genetic makeup. NOT having a bunch of built up trauma in the body due to the past life circumstances, and learning how to release it if you do, through radical acceptance, forgiveness, recontextualization. This is all personal development 101 stuff but much harder to implement than intellectually understand due to our complex brain and our built in leftover animal driven cravings, urges, compulsions that we have to deal with.

There can be different "levels" of truth depending on your spiral dynamics level. In the end it comes down to giving the people the choice to live how they want versus trying to micromanage their lives for their own good. Each "side" does this to some degree. Each side has things they think we should and should not do for the good of ourselves, society, or whatever. I would argue there is no "problem" to deal with. People can develop at their own pace. It's nobody's job to force some universal truth on people that they must follow, though all tier 1 stages would have you believe otherwise, including the greens. I would argue that science comes closest to objective truth in this "reality" because it can be measured and quantified and proven. I would make the argument greens are too naive to human nature and prone to getting taken advantage of by stages below them. How to deal with the problem? Respect democracy, keep voting, and accept election results... all sides should do this. Ditch social media, stop watching any "news" whether it's right or left leaning, because there is always bias. Try to be the best version of yourself and be an independent, functioning member of society without the need for government to make things all "fair" for you, because life is not, and will never be, totally fair. Question everything. Use common sense. Respect other people's beliefs instead of trying to moral shame them or nag to them that they are voting wrong and idiots for doing so.

I generally don't trust any content creator who does all the stuff to appeal to the "algorhythm" and that includes sensationalist looking screen caps. That said, guarantee you election meddling has been a thing as long as there are elections, because of human nature. When people are so sure their cult like belief systems are the only right way to live, they will tend to do anything to "defend" them and will have the mentality where the ends justify the means, and how the win is achieved doesn't matter, and that winning is all that matters. You know the political left are just as guilty of this as the right. Anyone who is not tier 2 consciousness, and indeed many that are. Of course now it's the left accusing the right of cheating... I expected nothing less. They will piss and moan and do all the exact same things they claim their opposition does, including be good little closet autocrats, upset they can't control the narrative, for now at least.

Stage green are too naive to human nature, which makes them prone to be used and taken advantage of by the lower stages. This is why they can't be in charge. They think everyone is inherently good and don't know how to deal with each stage at their own level. That's what is happening. The democrats/leftists have been hijacked in the west. They won't save anybody. Reach tier 2 consciousness so you can see who the real "enemies" are. Certainly don't shame me for not "embracing my green." Now, watch the puppets pulling Biden's strings, the same ones who would have pulled Kamala's start world war three and shatter your narrative about the left being the only way to save this planet. Welcome to human nature, where wealthy psychopaths bribe those in charge to get what they want, no matter what the cost. Enjoy the game. Funny thing is, none of the people actually in charge run for any office. Those who run for office get used by those who have the money. That is human nature. Play the game the way you're told, how you're told.

And yet these democrats are the ones that were supposed to save mankind and it's the republicans that are dictators and war mongers, lol.

It was the left trying to fact check and combat what they call "misinformation" that kicked all this off. Granted there is misinformation out there pushed by the right, but there is also misinformation pushed by the left. It's dangerous to let one side control the narrative just because they believe they are right and their cause is just. Trump is not going to dismantle freedom of speech. Don't worry, you will be fine. Life goes on. Bottom line , it's human nature for any large group of people to try to control the narrative and oppress their opposition. Checks and balances are important to protect us from our nature.

Seems to me nobody is totally one spiral dynamic stage and higher stages don't necessarily mean one is less neurotic and more moral. One could argue there are stage turquoises that could be serial killers or psychopaths because people who are not neurotypical typically get into personal development simply to figure out why they are different. Society's philosophers and intellects tend to be social outcasts to varying degrees compared to what one might dub a "neurotypical." There are plenty of highly intelligent individuals with violent or neurotic tendencies in our society/planet. The degree one is developed is the degree one is able to accept what is outside one's control without turning totally amoral or emotionless or nihilistic or getting upset at things one thinks "should" be different than how they are. Seems like spiral dynamics doesn't do a good enough job measuring EQ in my opinion, and a person shouldn't really label themselves as a tier 2 thinker if they are too full of negativity, victim mentality, or any emotions that david hawkins would calibrate under level 200 or they have a side to them that can "snap" easily with emotional outbursts and/or desire to get "revenge" among other lower emotional states. Also it's easy to be a saint in paradise, and people tend to regress to lower stages based on when they are stressed or put in a situation where there may be genuine danger. This separates those who have spent less time mastering their responses to "what is" to those who are better trained to "roll with the punches." ... to this degree you can have better developed stage oranges while having stage yellows that are undeveloped or immature in many ways. It's another system that measures some or even many aspects of a person's development but not all aspects.

Your last couple of paragraphs summed it up... human nature prevents their success. As long as you have really wealthy people buying political favors, human nature will likely prevail, our more hedonistic desires such as wealth, status, access to women. Changing a couple of million years of evolution in a couple of generations isn't easy without genetic engineering. Perhaps the problem isn't stage green itself, but rather the other stages that infiltrate and corrupt the greens to their own ends. Actually that's not entirely true because just the fact greens are tier 1 consciousness means they will try to push their belief systems on others, just like the stages below them. Bottom line, there's no easy answer in the fight to win over public opinion with an ideology. I'd say start with honesty, something politicians seem incapable of. Don't insult people's intelligence. Present them the facts and let them choose, rather then trying to tell them what to think or calling them all stupid because they won't join your "side." The left's overbearing Karen like nagginess and moralizing turned a lot of people off. Again human nature... humans don't like being told what to do by moral nannies. They didn't like it when the religious right did it, they don't like when the woke left does it. Human nature will tend to assert itself unless stopped forcefully, which leads into the argument for autocrats, dictators, and other undesirable outcomes to appease a specific spiral dynamic stage or ideology (who always think they have all the answers) instead of allowing all of them to grow at their own pace. Our shared diversity of opinions is our strength. There's too much "I'm smarter than the sheep" among both the super rich, conspiracy theorists, and the personal development crowd, this idea that the masses are all just zombies and we are so much more enlightened because we have discovered "the truth." Nonsense. To me many of them have more wisdom than those in charge. Don't insult their intelligence... they have more common sense than given credit for.

THC works well. Going to bed at around the same time each day works well. Earplugs work well. I work all nights, wear earplugs, go to bed between 4-7AM every day, and sleep like a baby. If this is something you can't force yourself to do, wear earplugs, then accept the fact you will hear noises potentially, especially during the day. 25 MG of Delta 9 in edible form before bed works very well, but admittedly using drugs as a crutch isn't the best idea long term, but as far as drugs go THC is about as harmless as they come. If you do want to try earplugs, these are the most comfortable ones I have come across... https://www.amazon.com/3M-Earplugs-Hearing-Conservation-311-1250/dp/B008MCULZW Even without earplugs I'm blessed with quiet, considerate neighbors. If you are renting with inconsiderate neighbors, consider moving units. Life is not worth dealing with loud, inconsiderate neighbors. Part of the struggles of living with higher populations with more people renting is the construction quality of the units combined with people enjoying dog ownership often leads to excessive noise and lack of privacy. Mental attitude also matters. If I can't sleep I don't ruminate over it, I use the time to practice mindful meditation and count it as sleep. If you struggle "trying" to fall asleep you will just make yourself miserable. Any time you struggle against "what is" will create unnecessary suffering in your life, like the people here have done since Trump won, as an example. However, my ability to do this still has limits. If I had insufferable neighbors, I would have to move. Back when I had more severe general anxiety disorder, I had insomnia. It was a sympathetic dominant nervous system. As my parasympathetic, ventral vagal response increases gradually, my sleep has returned. Going to bed at the same time every day is a healthy habit to have, or waking up at the same time, but it's the mental attitude while awake that has made the most difference. Acceptance of what is, peace of mind, willingness to roll with the punches, mindful observation of emotions instead of letting them hijack my responses, manning up and being less of a man-child with a victim mindset... the transformation has been remarkable.

Enough of them were sold a lie by Hollywood about how women are sugar, spice, and everything nice. Many of them didn't have the confidence or social skills to really keep a woman satisfied and they got bored and moved on. These guys turned bitter as what they were taught about women by society didn't work. They don't tell men growing up specifically that they need playful banter and a rebellious, adventurous nature to be successful with women. This is something men have to figure out themselves. The left has been white shaming also for years now. Why should someone feel guilty of their skin color when you go back far enough on human nature everyone has enslaved everyone else? It's the leftist narrative peddling that brought on the counterculture movement just because of the preachy, naggy nature of the movement. Shame on you for being masculine, white, a male. Shame on you for being conservative. People don't want to hear that. Counterculture movements are normal when the status quo become naggy enough after they get enough power.

Life is a mental game. You can try to climb on the personal development hamster wheel to try to feel a since of pride of accomplishment and as a man that is important to do in moderation but in the end it still comes down to peace of mind independent of external circumstances, which is something that is hard to teach or tell you how to do, you just need to find your inner peace on your own through self inquiry. For example, I am at peace despite the fact I acknowledge I have aspie traits, a boring personality, and lack the playful demeanor that creates most bonds, friendships, relationships. There are other areas in life I work on to keep my peace of mind such as low bodyweight percentage, diet and fitness. I am nice towards others, but will never be a storytelling extrovert or a practical joker and my playful banter skills are a work in progress. Arguably these are the most important traits to have as a member of the species. As a man I should say, if you want something you have to be aggressive and take risks. People with good intentions will tell you to be responsible and play it safe, but typically the most successful in life don't actually do this. They take risks, if they mess up they try again and again. They act in spite of their fear. Regardless of what you do, good luck!

Thank you. LOL. It's clear to me why people turned against the left. It's the suffocating, Karen-like moral/intellectual superiority/nagging they've been constantly doing for years now. Shaming people for voting against them, calling them stupid and dumb. They just come across as insufferable to me, insisting their path is the only path forward for the species. Maybe they'll be proven right and Trump will destroy the country, but I doubt it. If it happens, it happens. Observing all this theatre has made me see how counterculture movements form, it's because the status quo become insufferable with their attempts to nag and control the masses, which promotes the movement as a way to rebel from the "Karens" trying to nag the populace to death. The left became entrenched in the institutions and turn into naggy Karens shaming everyone every time they dared criticize the most looney of policies such as transgender surgeries for 8 year olds, etc. This is the result.

I mean, David Hawkins was a republican and wrote a litany of books on his calibrated levels of consciousness. This idea that all super high developed people are all super progressive is a story that progressives tell themselves. In the end it's important as homo sapiens to have a nice balance between liberal and conservative traits, just as it's important to "toughen up boys" to turn them into men. We can't put the entire species inside a bubble or safe space to shelter them from any discomfort in life. The left wing when taken to it's extreme violates the laws of nature that run evolution including our species and turns societies non functional. You're never going to get rid of all discomfort in life and make everyone totally equal, no matter how hard you try. You're not going to force the entire planet into a stage green philosophy any time soon.

The amount of people having full blown mental breaks, public meltdowns, and anxiety attacks is wild. Like if this election made you legitimately lose your mind, maybe you weren’t all there to begin with. It's insane how quickly the left got actually racist, not fake racism crying like they've done for years, as soon as black and latino people didn't vote the way they wanted. The number of Kamala supporters I've seen that keep going on about how they can't wait for trump to put Mexicans in camps or that he's going to deport muslims and completely level Palestine and they'll be laughing about it is incredible lmao. these are the people claiming to have some sort of moral high ground. No trump voter has said anything even 1/10th as toxic to me 😂 To me the left simply got too naggy for their own good, like how the religious right used to be in this culture which caused people to rebel from them. Stage yellows should learn to deal with stages at their own level. A true yellow isn't going to nag lower stages to death trying to force feed a belief system on them, in my opinion. Since they are greens stuck in tier 1 thinking, naturally they still think their stage is the pinnacle of societal development and want to try to force feed it on everyone like tier 1 thinkers tend to do. This sort of nagging, condescending, intellectual and moral superiority they dangle over everyone trying to shame them to death for being racists, bigots, etc. is just going to cause them to lose more support going forward if they are not careful. Not everyone wants to buy what they are selling, and to go turn around and trash them for their disobedience isn't going to win them over, but by all means, keep at it.

I always see developed people bash the "sheep" as though they are low information lemmings plugged into the matrix, but I'm convinced a lot of normal people are more developed than people into "personal development" as all the major authors talk about rolling with the punches, acceptance of what you cannot change, and not taking a victim mentality, all the opposite of around 75% here do. Rather than a personal development forum this is more of a left wing politics forum in my opinion. Stage green know they are green, act like they are green, and seemingly unable to change their behavior or world view, which I find fascinating. The strong emotional investment I find equally fascinating. They seemingly can't understand why people would vote for Trump, a characteristic of Tier 1 thinking. Just fascinating the reaction to Trump's victory. The model works! They may have genuine reasons to be worried about Trump though... I guess time will tell, because he's here to stay.

Yes, but I believe there is room for compassion and choice on the abortion issue. First, assuming you believe in the soul, past lifes, reincarnation, the soul already is aware of the possibility of an abortion happening, and is prepared for it. Second, the fetus has no conscious awareness of it's existence until perhaps the month up to birth, where some people report remembering being in the womb. Third, the sex drive is extremely strong and for conservatives to say to just abstain is asking a lot given our nature. Fourth, to ask a mother to raise a child they are not ready to raise when they are really young especially, when the guy knocks her up and disappears, can be traumatic for a young person especially if their parents are conservative and not supportive of the accidential pregnancy. Fifth, asking them to raise a child they probably cannot afford means the government is going to pay for it.. you'd think more conservatives would be against that. For all these reasons and more I generally support abortion through the first or second trimester. I just don't see any harm coming of it, besides potential future psychological damage as the woman gets older wondering what the child would have been like that they aborted, which is a very real thing, but something the woman will have to deal with. Bottom line, it should be a choice, in my opinion of course. When you criminalize something there will just be black markets for it, and there have been black markets for dangerous abortion procedures going back thousands of years.

People don't like being preached too and the modern left are too preachy in a religious fundamentalist sort of way... you either fall into line on every issue they support or they attack and outcast you. This moral/intellectual superiority stage greens dangle over people is offputting to them. Nobody likes being told they are low IQ, inferior, a racist, just because they're not a bunch of socialist utopians who don't support unchecked immigration with no vetting, or gender changes for adolescents, or men competing in women's sports and beating world records, and being fact checked and cancelled if you don't agree. Democrats were becoming too controlling with their narrative peddling.... not allowing room for actual opposing viewpoints.... they "hate the haters" and think they have the moral high ground when they do it, and can't understand why their tactics aren't working and they push away moderates. Now they're blaming it on racist men who didn't want to elect a woman, which is quite frankly pure bullshit. Having emotional meltdowns and lame excuses does not equate to being well developed much less self aware or introspective. Let's put it this way... they pushed me away more than Trump pushed me away. Yes, people like Tulsi and Musk, former liberals and current moderates, did sway people's opinions... just watching lefties rip them for daring to have moderate viewpoints and leave the democrat party or gasp, allow a free speech platform, is what's wrong with the democrat party. If you want to claim to be inclusive, be inclusive. Plus, California making it against the law to check for voter ID... this really makes the left look nuts... makes them look like they don't care if they cheat to win, they only care about power and having it. All this comes off as looney to normal people. Plus, it's the economy stupid... I will grant you, I can see how Trump's behavior, what he says during his rallies, comes off as looney to the left, and dangerous. I can see their perspective, see why they are concerned. Time will tell if their fears are justified or not.

But you're so enlightened, tolerant, and accepting of what is. You're so supporting of "democracy" as long as it's your side that is in charge, I mean, if you can't see your stage green bias and emotional investment... So what happens when none of this comes to pass and the war in Ukraine is over by the spring?

Wizard, these people are not enlightened. Stop letting them gaslight you into thinking they are. They are stage greens who believe their stage green beliefs, just like blues and oranges do. They get very emotionally charged when those beliefs are questioned. They think they have all the answers for the other spiral dynamics stages and think it's their job to convert the world, just like religious people used to do. Stage green is just another belief system. Perhaps its more evolved but it's not for everyone, especially with the subtle jabs they always make towards the right in popular culture. They have this perception of the right that is largely a stereotype or caricature and not how average people actually behave. That said the right have the same stereotypes about the left. It's rare average people behave exactly like the political caricatures portrayed by their party. I don't blame them because Trump is a troll, and some of the things that come out of his mouth should not be. Doesn't mean his policies will match.