sholomar

When were they ever not behaving this way in the evolutionary history of our species? Who's to say what a person "should" behave like? Isn't it better to have freedom to express oneself than say be caught under an autocratic dystopian society where even facial expressions and emotional reactions are controlled by the state? Didn't we create a society so people could do exactly what they are doing today... finding their own path through life their own way? Do you think people should be socially conditioned to be polite and selfless and disregard their genetic nature? That takes control over people. What level of control we decide to implement over a society and human behavior will always be the subject open for debate depending on who you are talking too. Who decides what behavior is "correct" will tend to always change and you will never have a society that pleases everyone, nor can you expect people to simply "do the right thing" without rules telling them what "the right thing" actually is. If the society can please the majority while progressing our scientific understanding of this reality while generally providing people with a safe place to "find themselves" (as opposed to being drones in some autocratic collective) I would consider that a success.

It provides a fixed asset that can't be debased and they can't mine more of it out of the ground. The value it has is the value people are willing to pay for it. They print a lot of money globally and debase a lot of currencies. For some countries it's a really good choice compared to their native currencies.

Urine therapy, P&B Shakes, drinking sodium chlorite (MMS), drinking hydrogen peroxide, coffee enemas, liver flushes, colonics, making kefir using actual grains, alkaline diet.... I'm trying to think of every alternative medicine practice I stumbled across on curezone over the years. Didn't do all these but am aware of them. All my health problems were caused by my emotional/mental state and thoughts/programming from childhood. None of this stuff was going to work, and typically doesn't work for people into natural medicine. About the only things that do actually heal or have some effect are water and dry fasting, whether intermittent or extended. That and radical acceptance of what is... oh and friendship and laughter.... anything that activates the ventral vagal response, I mean real playfulness with others including touch.

Seems to me one can intellectually be at one level and animalistically at another. Meaning the intellectual understanding of a subject is not embodied by the emotional/animal state. One could be a highly intelligent person who is very self aware and perhaps a serial killer. Doesn't seem to me that people can fit into a single stage, and they tend to be a mixture of stages. Unless spiral dynamics specifically states that a stage yellow or higher must hold a higher emotional/moral state as a default and not be some emotionless psychopath, which around 5% of the population tend to be, higher in the top of the power structure (CEOs, billionaires) Green tends to be a bit naive to human nature and get used by lower stages. They don't know how to deal with lower stages other than trying to convert them, and getting upset when the converting doesn't take hold. The type of nation building and cultural conditioning they are trying to achieve is a decades long process, and is indeed a giant work in progress. People today lack patience and have limited attention spans. They want everything done now.

Thank you for saying it in a way I tried to figure out how too, op. What you're describing is simply stage green thinking. All tier one stages want to convert each other to their stage. I respect Leo and this group here, so I'm genuinely interested to see how the next 4+ years play out, to see if it ends up as bad as everyone here thinks.

And you think all this would have been avoided had we voted for democrats?

There are various books on the idea that stress and bad thinking themselves cause most body issues that are chronic in nature such as GERD, IBS, Fibromyalga, etc. Open Focus brain, The power of Now, Letting Go and Healing and Recovery (David Hawkins), Your Survival Instinct is Killing you, and of course Joe's Books such as "Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself" all books that revolve around the theme that mindfulness (sitting in a room, doing nothing) will help heal the nervous system through activating the ventral vagal system. But really you need more than just mindfulness, but playful socialization. Being playful. Having Friends. Introverts are at a disadvantage in this regard due to our genetic makeup. NOT having a bunch of built up trauma in the body due to the past life circumstances, and learning how to release it if you do, through radical acceptance, forgiveness, recontextualization. This is all personal development 101 stuff but much harder to implement than intellectually understand due to our complex brain and our built in leftover animal driven cravings, urges, compulsions that we have to deal with.

There can be different "levels" of truth depending on your spiral dynamics level. In the end it comes down to giving the people the choice to live how they want versus trying to micromanage their lives for their own good. Each "side" does this to some degree. Each side has things they think we should and should not do for the good of ourselves, society, or whatever. I would argue there is no "problem" to deal with. People can develop at their own pace. It's nobody's job to force some universal truth on people that they must follow, though all tier 1 stages would have you believe otherwise, including the greens. I would argue that science comes closest to objective truth in this "reality" because it can be measured and quantified and proven. I would make the argument greens are too naive to human nature and prone to getting taken advantage of by stages below them. How to deal with the problem? Respect democracy, keep voting, and accept election results... all sides should do this. Ditch social media, stop watching any "news" whether it's right or left leaning, because there is always bias. Try to be the best version of yourself and be an independent, functioning member of society without the need for government to make things all "fair" for you, because life is not, and will never be, totally fair. Question everything. Use common sense. Respect other people's beliefs instead of trying to moral shame them or nag to them that they are voting wrong and idiots for doing so.

I generally don't trust any content creator who does all the stuff to appeal to the "algorhythm" and that includes sensationalist looking screen caps. That said, guarantee you election meddling has been a thing as long as there are elections, because of human nature. When people are so sure their cult like belief systems are the only right way to live, they will tend to do anything to "defend" them and will have the mentality where the ends justify the means, and how the win is achieved doesn't matter, and that winning is all that matters. You know the political left are just as guilty of this as the right. Anyone who is not tier 2 consciousness, and indeed many that are. Of course now it's the left accusing the right of cheating... I expected nothing less. They will piss and moan and do all the exact same things they claim their opposition does, including be good little closet autocrats, upset they can't control the narrative, for now at least.

Stage green are too naive to human nature, which makes them prone to be used and taken advantage of by the lower stages. This is why they can't be in charge. They think everyone is inherently good and don't know how to deal with each stage at their own level. That's what is happening. The democrats/leftists have been hijacked in the west. They won't save anybody. Reach tier 2 consciousness so you can see who the real "enemies" are. Certainly don't shame me for not "embracing my green." Now, watch the puppets pulling Biden's strings, the same ones who would have pulled Kamala's start world war three and shatter your narrative about the left being the only way to save this planet. Welcome to human nature, where wealthy psychopaths bribe those in charge to get what they want, no matter what the cost. Enjoy the game. Funny thing is, none of the people actually in charge run for any office. Those who run for office get used by those who have the money. That is human nature. Play the game the way you're told, how you're told.

And yet these democrats are the ones that were supposed to save mankind and it's the republicans that are dictators and war mongers, lol.

It was the left trying to fact check and combat what they call "misinformation" that kicked all this off. Granted there is misinformation out there pushed by the right, but there is also misinformation pushed by the left. It's dangerous to let one side control the narrative just because they believe they are right and their cause is just. Trump is not going to dismantle freedom of speech. Don't worry, you will be fine. Life goes on. Bottom line , it's human nature for any large group of people to try to control the narrative and oppress their opposition. Checks and balances are important to protect us from our nature.

Seems to me nobody is totally one spiral dynamic stage and higher stages don't necessarily mean one is less neurotic and more moral. One could argue there are stage turquoises that could be serial killers or psychopaths because people who are not neurotypical typically get into personal development simply to figure out why they are different. Society's philosophers and intellects tend to be social outcasts to varying degrees compared to what one might dub a "neurotypical." There are plenty of highly intelligent individuals with violent or neurotic tendencies in our society/planet. The degree one is developed is the degree one is able to accept what is outside one's control without turning totally amoral or emotionless or nihilistic or getting upset at things one thinks "should" be different than how they are. Seems like spiral dynamics doesn't do a good enough job measuring EQ in my opinion, and a person shouldn't really label themselves as a tier 2 thinker if they are too full of negativity, victim mentality, or any emotions that david hawkins would calibrate under level 200 or they have a side to them that can "snap" easily with emotional outbursts and/or desire to get "revenge" among other lower emotional states. Also it's easy to be a saint in paradise, and people tend to regress to lower stages based on when they are stressed or put in a situation where there may be genuine danger. This separates those who have spent less time mastering their responses to "what is" to those who are better trained to "roll with the punches." ... to this degree you can have better developed stage oranges while having stage yellows that are undeveloped or immature in many ways. It's another system that measures some or even many aspects of a person's development but not all aspects.

Your last couple of paragraphs summed it up... human nature prevents their success. As long as you have really wealthy people buying political favors, human nature will likely prevail, our more hedonistic desires such as wealth, status, access to women. Changing a couple of million years of evolution in a couple of generations isn't easy without genetic engineering. Perhaps the problem isn't stage green itself, but rather the other stages that infiltrate and corrupt the greens to their own ends. Actually that's not entirely true because just the fact greens are tier 1 consciousness means they will try to push their belief systems on others, just like the stages below them. Bottom line, there's no easy answer in the fight to win over public opinion with an ideology. I'd say start with honesty, something politicians seem incapable of. Don't insult people's intelligence. Present them the facts and let them choose, rather then trying to tell them what to think or calling them all stupid because they won't join your "side." The left's overbearing Karen like nagginess and moralizing turned a lot of people off. Again human nature... humans don't like being told what to do by moral nannies. They didn't like it when the religious right did it, they don't like when the woke left does it. Human nature will tend to assert itself unless stopped forcefully, which leads into the argument for autocrats, dictators, and other undesirable outcomes to appease a specific spiral dynamic stage or ideology (who always think they have all the answers) instead of allowing all of them to grow at their own pace. Our shared diversity of opinions is our strength. There's too much "I'm smarter than the sheep" among both the super rich, conspiracy theorists, and the personal development crowd, this idea that the masses are all just zombies and we are so much more enlightened because we have discovered "the truth." Nonsense. To me many of them have more wisdom than those in charge. Don't insult their intelligence... they have more common sense than given credit for.

THC works well. Going to bed at around the same time each day works well. Earplugs work well. I work all nights, wear earplugs, go to bed between 4-7AM every day, and sleep like a baby. If this is something you can't force yourself to do, wear earplugs, then accept the fact you will hear noises potentially, especially during the day. 25 MG of Delta 9 in edible form before bed works very well, but admittedly using drugs as a crutch isn't the best idea long term, but as far as drugs go THC is about as harmless as they come. If you do want to try earplugs, these are the most comfortable ones I have come across... https://www.amazon.com/3M-Earplugs-Hearing-Conservation-311-1250/dp/B008MCULZW Even without earplugs I'm blessed with quiet, considerate neighbors. If you are renting with inconsiderate neighbors, consider moving units. Life is not worth dealing with loud, inconsiderate neighbors. Part of the struggles of living with higher populations with more people renting is the construction quality of the units combined with people enjoying dog ownership often leads to excessive noise and lack of privacy. Mental attitude also matters. If I can't sleep I don't ruminate over it, I use the time to practice mindful meditation and count it as sleep. If you struggle "trying" to fall asleep you will just make yourself miserable. Any time you struggle against "what is" will create unnecessary suffering in your life, like the people here have done since Trump won, as an example. However, my ability to do this still has limits. If I had insufferable neighbors, I would have to move. Back when I had more severe general anxiety disorder, I had insomnia. It was a sympathetic dominant nervous system. As my parasympathetic, ventral vagal response increases gradually, my sleep has returned. Going to bed at the same time every day is a healthy habit to have, or waking up at the same time, but it's the mental attitude while awake that has made the most difference. Acceptance of what is, peace of mind, willingness to roll with the punches, mindful observation of emotions instead of letting them hijack my responses, manning up and being less of a man-child with a victim mindset... the transformation has been remarkable.