martins name

@Carl-Richard Ye, it's a description. I just want to model reality the best I can. Then how the truth is used that's secondary. You can stagnate or you can become too chaotic. You probably can't avoid novelty or order completely that's true, but you can have too little.

@Tyler Robinson I'm glad

@Tyler Robinson Aha. Then it seems that you don't make a distinction between tyranny and leadership, at least on an unconscious level. There is a saying: eat the cherry, spit out the seed. It's a metaphor that there are good and bad parts to most things and most ideas. We should separate the good from the bad, spit out the bad and integrate the good. Most people who wield power have a mixture of tyranny and leadership. As long as they have some amount of tyranny it's going to seem unpalatable for you. The trick is to make a distinction between the tyrannical and the leadership aspects of their power-wielding, then continue being repelled by the tyrannical side while you appreciate their leadership side. Does this help?

@Carl-Richard Pursue more novelty and more order forever. Never stagnate.

@Carl-Richard When you balance order and disorder perfectly you get a beautiful Picazo painting. But a painting is inanimate and doesn't develop. The logical conclusion of JP's model is that you should be a perfect painting, never too close to total order or total disorder to lose your beauty/harmony. But like a painting, without the axis of newness, you should remain like this forever, and that's the problem

Sounds like the root is fear or responsibility. When you are in control of something then it's on you if it goes wrong or someone gets unhappy.

Yes you should. again, the amount of novelty and order in the world today is trillions of times greater than at the genesis of life. That is achieved by maximizing both. My model dispels the falsehood that maximum order and maximum novelty are unhealthy extremes. Maximum novelty should be pursued as long as it has enough order to not become chaos. You can say that the lesson that development exists is uninteresting, but having a model that paints a picture of reality that is blind to development/complexity/evolution is bad.

I see. What I mean is that JP is missing some nuance when he says chaos. I didn't mean to equate. I'm trying to clarify his intuition. When I say excess I mean novelty without order, in other words, disorganized novelty. Like a random mutation that gives us 6 fingers. Adding something new without integrating it with the whole. Throwing a piece of clothing into your room(novelty) without placing it where it should be(no order). The concrete lesson is that you should maximize novelty and order while maintaining balance. In JP's model, there is no room for growth. There are trillions of times more novelty and order today on earth than there was at life's genesis. But in JP's model, we haven't gone anywhere. We are still in the middle of the two extremes. From his one-dimensional perspective, it's true but it doesn't see the whole picture.

Wrong. Novelty and chaos are different things. You can have novelty and if it comes with adequate order then it's not chaos/disorder it's complexity. Your one-dimensional model is blind to growth. Compare the genesis of life with today. Today there are trillions of times more novelty and order on earth. In the one-dimensional model these things would cancel each other out and you are left where you started: in the middle. In reality we are not where we started, but the one-dimensional model can't account for this. It seems to me that you are blind to the new axis that I'm introducing: newness. This is what I'm saying, it's another axis. Novelty is not change, it's newness. I've thought about your response for a long time and it really seems to me that you don't understand my model. Like you are looking at my two-dimensional model from a one-dimensional lens instead of understanding my two-dimensional perspective.

@bmcnicho Thanks. You hit the head on the nail with growth over time. The flow state diagram is very interesting. There are probably more models like that where chaos and novelty are specified in different ways, gonna be on the lookout for it. @JosephKnecht I would say that a room can be in chaos. Novelty in the case of a room is how much stuff there is in the room. If there is a lot of stuff in a room but there is not adequate order to organize it then the diagram shows that the room is in chaos. However, a room with novelty is not always chaotic as long as there is enough order to go along with it. @Carl-Richard All models are semantics. All thoughts are semantics. If you think that this model is just a pointless shuffle of semantics then you are wrong. This model is more complex, sophisticated and useful than JPs's. It's also not trivial to change JP's chaos to novelty. He did an interview with a woman that got upset when JP said that order is masculine and chaos is feminine. She got upset because she rightly intuits that chaos is something negative. This model offers a better story that takes into account her intuition. That the feminine is novelty which is a good force, but if it lacks masculine order it becomes chaos, which is bad.

@sausagehead Depends on how it's done. Maybe you should start with some more fundamental energy practices. Try Tara Springetts techniques described in 'Enlightenment Through the Path of Kundalini'. I find that kriya yoga is very unfriendly to beginners, you need a fundamental understanding of chakras to start practicing. Personally, I get wonderful results. I feel blissful, grounded, joyful, loving and present after doing my set. I practice SantataGamanas kriya. The most important lesson to learn about energy practice is that feeling good is north. That's how you measure if you are doing a technique well. The whole point of energy work is to open the chakras and feel their blissful qualities, being: root chakra: comfort and grounding sacral chakra: pleasure and connection navel chakra: joy and power hearth chakra: love and healing throat chakra: purification third eye chakra: beauty, ego dissolution crown chakra: cosmic identity Try this very basic technique to understand energy practice fundamentals: Manipura, the Navel Chakra Add new elements when you feel ready. The technique is structured pedagogically. Sit up straight. Assume a gentle smile. Feel your body as hollow and filled with energy. Represent energy with a light glowing in all the rainbows colors. Feel it and imagine it, don’t think it. It feels tingly and pleasant. Breath deeply and slowly. Hold the outbreath for a couple of seconds. On the outbreath imagine a beautiful sun in your stomach, football sized at the level of your belly button, radiating joyus, warm and powerful light. Feel it as a wave expanding throughout your body. Then feel it radiate from your body into the world, filling it with joy and warmth. As you’re holding the outbreath, feel a sense of completion and satisfaction. Like you have accomplished everything you wanted and are completely fullfilled and serene. Like god resting on the seventh day after having creathing the universe. On the inbreath feel that you’re breathing in love through your nostrils going through your body down into your gut. Feel the love infusing the sun and stocking its flames life you are blowing into a fire. Now, on the outbreath combind the power of the sun with love to create a nurishment. Feel the sun nurishing and empowering you and the rest of the world. Imagine other beings being nurished by your rays. First people in your vesinity, then block, then city, country, the whole earth, and at last feel your rays radiating into space. Nurishing beings on distant planets as they look up into the night sky to be mezmorised by a new star. They smile back. You can experiment with placing the sun in the middle of your head and radiating joy from there. This simultaneously opens the ajna(third eye) chakra, dissolving your ego.

You could just eat fruits

We all carry his legacy. You will be missed, Don. Rest in peace.

They say mankind will end with a whimper or a bang. A whimper would be a slow degeneration, people slowly polluting the ecosystem by only caring about their little bubble of comfort, a collective death by cowardice. A bang would be something like a nuclear holocaust a meteor strike. This death from a physics perspective is heat death, the distant future where all stars have burnt out and all energy in the universe is evenly distributed making life impossible. From an ecological perspective this death would be the magots, fungi and microbes that are waiting to feast on humanities carcass. My first question is: is there a religious or folklore representation of this force? To me, the devil is not it. The devil may be fractured but at least it survives and evolves. Second question: Are there other representations of this force in other fields of thought? Third question: What do you think is the ultimate enemy? I already sense that some people will say that there is no enemy. To that, I say that everyone has a preference. Even if you know that pain and pleasure are equally perfect, you still have a preference for pleasure. If you had no preference you would die, so what is the opposite of that preference?

@universe @thibault What is the antithesis to what you value the most?

There is obviously a distinction to make between gutsy/dominant males and cowardly/submisive males. Most people who criticize the alpha/beta distinction are betas who don't wanna own up to their weakness. There is, however, as you point out, a conversation to be had about how we relate to this distinction. One problem in this area is how some people think this is the only personality axiom or that it's the one that matters the most. Other axioms include passion, love, self-acceptance, truthfulness, intelligence, groundedness, and awareness. Another problem that you've correctly pointed out is how people are obsessed with identity and labels and that we shouldn't be so self-obsessed.

@BlurryBoi Longing is always for love but does that come in some form for you? Maybe you long for peace, perfection, self-mastery, or the flourishing of the people around you. Defiantly do heart chakra meditation to work on going into that sadness into the love that is in the core of it and bask in that love. try this heart chakra meditation for 10 min minimum and tell me how you feel: assume a gentle smile take a long in-breath and feel the sadness in your chest area. as you slowly breathe out go into the sadness to the love that is in its core. and radiate that love from your chest to re rest of your body and feel your body glowing with that love outwards. repeat steps 2 and 3. You can let go of the sadness and just bask in love if that feels right to you. This meditation is dependent on how intense emotions you can generate. A great way to do this is to think back to memories where you felt these emotions or conjure up mental images.

@BlurryBoi Sadness is your heart's path from apathy to love. Sadness contains longing which contains love. What do you long for?

@itachi uchiha I've read SantataGamana, Stevens, Ennio and Sri Mukherjee on Kriya yoga. Also Tara Springett and Judith Anodea on chakras. But I think everyone has to figure out the subtleties of energy work for themselves. Like there are a million ways to pull energy up the spine on a subtle level. There is no way to completely communicate it. So in a sense, everyone has to reinvent the wheel a bit. I think I've taken my understanding of chakras and energy work further than most people tho and that's part of my LP, to develop healing technologies.

@itachi uchiha I've figured it out myself. Mostly from having a really good understanding of the chakra system.

@Carl-Richard You are looking at SD from a cultural perspective, in terms of worldview. I'm more talking about the emotions that are driving SD stages. The emotional motivation to self-assert is the same.

@Carl-Richard Sorry, I meant individualistic as power-seeking/self-asserting.

@Carl-Richard If we dissect a stage we will find that it's made up of components. Orange has a beige, purple, red, blue, and orange component. I'm not reducing individualism to red, but individualism is the red subcomponent in action. This subcomponent is however integrated with the other subcomponents to change how this individualism expresses itself. vMemes aren't entirely constructed, they are also coming from the depth of our psycology. There is a part that is constructed, usually against the previous stage, as you've said, but the other part we are born with.

@sleep I recomend reading Ennio Nimis. I think he is the best out there for describing these kinds of subtleties. http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/files/English I.pdf

That is not quite true, you could have an orange person who has never come in contact with a blue person and he would still be individualistic. Orange is a sophistication of red individualism. If you look at the chakras which SD is an emergent property of then the Manipura chakra(navel/power chakra) that first comes into awareness in red is used in orange as in combination with rationality(throat chakra) to create orange individualism. Caring for individual rights comes from the blue social system subcomponent that is now tweaked to accommodate individual freedom.