B_Naz

Understanding reality, enlightenment, consciousness, whatever you want to call it is not meant to be understood. When you try to understand something, you put your own logic, assumption, and identity onto it based on the memory you have. Understanding something is implying you attach thought/ego onto it So you shouldn't actually get an emotional or any sort of reaction to it

@MarkusSweden I think of it like this. If we say conciseness is nothing but not the nothing that we know it as, then existence is the same. When we say that consciousness exists, It isn't the same existence that we know it. Nothing and Existence counter each other because we "think" it does, but we don't know actually what existence is, because knowing requires the ego/thought for it to label and identify. To know something to is understand/label it, rather than to be consciousness of it. So existence being a quality is actually something you don't know, but assume. It's again that materialistic paradigm that Leo talks about. You assume that existence must be a quality in order to allow other qualities.

This post is directed more towards the people who are focused on ending duality/movement of thought What would you say to this type of meditation? I've been practising to silence my minds, but decided to try this meditation technique of do nothing. I really enjoy this meditation method, it really helps me purge my thoughts. I love getting angry at myself for not giving up control, and I just accept it. Then end up hating the meditation technique and I accept it. To be honest, I just remember myself saying internally "I FUCKING HATE MEDITATION, I FUCKING HATE ALL OF THIS". Soon or later, it just went away and then I don't hate anything. Purging is great but... I have trouble with this. I've been working on ending duality, and to me, it seems that ending the thought process is the way to go for non-duality. Wouldn't this technique oppose what I am trying to do? This then opened up an insight... I know you can't really stop and control your thoughts, so does this mean we cannot silence the thoughts? Does this mean we can't end duality? How can we stop the movement of thought when we have no control? There is nobody to control it...

Something I realized today. If we looked at all our "needs", such as money, sex, drugs, clothes, good-looks, healthy, self-improvement, or even basic needs like warmth and food, it all stems from... nothing? All our needs are actually made of nothing. They were not caused or created by anything but the ego? It's like the ego demands things, but what it doesn't even know what it demands. So the infinite why... Whenever you come across anything that you require, like the examples above, just ask yourself "why". Why do you want this? Just keep asking and answering the question and you will just come to an end. Ending in "I don't know". It ends in nothing Here's an example I went through... Why do I want money -> To buy a house -> Why do I want to buy a house? -> To call somewhere home? -> Why do you want that? -> I don't know I literally went through these whys and it just shocked me how every need I find leads to me not knowing why I want this Sometimes, some needs just have infinite amount of whys, and that implies its actually nothing, since there is no sign of cause of it I don't know... Just a thought...

Never thought of it like that... That sounds similar to what's happening with me. I don't really know if I've had a spiritual epiphanies but I definitely feel different. Not really an emotionally feeling, just something I can't describe really. Nothing major, but it's like an awakening like nothing ever happened? Sorry if I keep misunderstanding things I understand now I really like this, awareness that is indescribable... that really helps me explore/understand further

Thank you all @Quanty @Anna1 @Faceless , I will carry on with this practice then. I just had doubts about it which lead me to post.

Oh my, clearly I am still not fully grasping. Thanks for the reminder for the role of memory in our thoughts. To not move dualistically is something that I should stay away from for now then. You're right, need to work on the nature of thought. It will take me a while to understand this...

Good insight though... The intention to end duality is still in duality

But there was no controller in the first place, and this realisation will help end the division. Of course, making conclusions now is the worst thing I can do, it's just I'm trying to get more information. So making conclusions about thought ending is a bad thing to do right now for me? So I should probably carry on with this meditation method to try to understand the nature of thought?

@Faceless Something popped up in my head. You can't control or stop the movement, it seems that thoughts arise out of nowhere. If that happens, then movement cannot end

That's my point, its response to memory. However, It's seems that you cannot stop your thoughts. Even if you wanted to or not. Even if it's in non-duality or duality state, there is nothing that can control the thoughts, and there is noone to control it... There is nothing to stop the movement of it. Then how do you go about to actually ending duality?

I don't think I can accept myself to be those things, limitless, consciousness, existence, etc. Reason for this is because I feel like those are just ideas that I created in order to identify myself with reality, rather than just being reality... I like the realisation that I am not an action figure. But then... What do I do? I can't end my thoughts or control them, when the Truth seems to point that way for me. I know @Anna1 you have a very different view on the duality/non-duality debate to me, and now I'm starting to actually understand where your view comes from. We can't control anything... The fact that we can't control is amazing...

100% normal. You can't have the full benefits of both without combining both. You need to get the strength of both, rather than picking. The introvert/extrovert diagram can be seen as a cycle. You can go from introvert to extrovert at any time. It's because when you're in the introvert phase, you work on yourself. You self-actualize, do self-enquiry, you meditate, and do all the habits to self-improve. All the work is done internally. But then what happens is that the extrovert is the reflection of the introvert. That's how I see the model. So it's normal. You become introverted but as time goes on, that introvert work will be reflected and thus you will be extrovert. This is also vice versa.

Coding is a nice way to stimulate your brain

Life isn't meaningless. It's something you thought life is, and you don't actually know what life really is, you just assume it. It's why It's important to do work on these topics so you really understand it, so don't come up with conclusions straight away You have to find meaning to it. Life doesn't have all these problems you're currently having, it's you that is having the problems and that is reflected on the world, when that reflection isn't in actuality. It's great that you've finally decided to do something about your life! Use that desire and work on yourself + the Truth. I love how you want to be a social worker and contribute to the world. That is such a meaningful purpose, in which I wish I could try and find! It's important to contribute to the world, that's how you cope with meaning. Also how do you know if the world is meaningless when you haven't tried the social worker yet! The main reason you're not feeling happy is because you feel incomplete. You feel like you need something, but you can't quite catch it, and that something is only achieved by existential. A nice outlook to boost up happiness is being joyful; Joyful that you are grateful for what you have. Don't expect more, just love for what you have, and how it will grow into you You should do some reading on human psychology and obviously Leo's videos on emotions because happiness is still an emotion! Goodluck

Ohh, I see what you mean. when you're joyful, you're just grateful for what you have. You don't need it or want it, it's just there. You didn't ask for it, it's just there...

Feeling incomplete.. That's such a powerful insight So, if I don't want anything. I am complete. That's a nice direction to strive for. Being unhappy/happy can cause problems, "Oh I'm unhappy, let me be happy by doing...". The goal is to be neither happy or unhappy. Just neutral. Not that you should force yourself to not be happy, I mean, the ego isn't really an evil thing. It's just something that's there. No forcing is required, it's just something to realize Definitely not easy to do, lol

You can't just say something doesn't exist. You cannot say Leo, or I, or whatever the fuck exist. Reason for this is because it's an IDENTITY that you created and IMPOSED onto those phenomenons When we describe something "to exist", we describe it with our thoughts/ego because it has memory of existing. You have a memory of existing, but don't have a memory of "not" existing. If we "exist", what the fuck does that mean? See, it doesn't mean anything. It's our mind just trying to survive and become useful. If I said I don't exist, i can just fucking poop and eat bananas. It's nothing useful for our psychological "needs". Do not trust your mind. Do not trust your understanding. These all leads to self-deception. You cannot describe what exists and not, because you thought describes it. If you thought describes it, then it is self-deception still. It's not reality because reality is neutral. If you said "reality is this", then. How to cope with this? Be aware of it, and don't let your mind be the boss. Just stop thinking so much, thinking leads to fear and panic. This cannot be described verbal but with action. You can only BE. Not "you" the ego but ALL. "I know one thing; that I know nothing" - The Socrates Paradox.

Ahh I see, I've never really experimented with it. But the goal would be to see everything for the first time, without input from the memory. It's why I find dreams to feel real, since during the moment, there is no memory but then I actually have a memory of the dream "feeling" real after I've waken up. It's quite insane how memory changes EVERYTHING. Takes a lot of work to realize this, something I probably came across accidentally. But who knows shrugs...

Is reality a hallucination, or just you? It's easy to say reality is hallucination, but here's the thing... We label our experience as "reality". Notice the problem? We use our ego/thoughts to describe reality. When we say reality is a hallucination, that's an identity. That is your knowledge and that is used to strength your ego by gaining something from that concept/thought. Here's a thought, when you're actually lucid dreaming, can you tell if it isn't real or not? Not after the dream but during it? I've never done it myself, would be cool to get some insight on that because I know normal dreams can actually be perceived as "real", to me at least. It just shows that it's possible that what we "see" is not in actuality. Whenever we say "yes, reality is this", what we say isn't in actuality, because it's our own construction. It's what you "THINK" it is. Silence what you think/know, and really open up to the truth. Great insight

Noone knows. See for yourself

Can we listen to these sensations in our body without interpreting it? When we listen to these sensations, are these not part of the thought as well? Is listening part of the thought process?

Does even the label "we" exist according to reality? The "we" indicates that we are unified but when I say "we", it only really means the human race... I think, personally, we are just more than humans. We shouldn't identify ourselves as humans but as reality (I'm sure you all know this, and yet here I am, thinking I'm human). We put our awareness on ourselves when that awareness is created by the human (agree to disagree but just an insight)? Maybe the awareness/conciseness exist because reality made it exist, but it's like a nightmare because we identify this awareness/consciousness so much that we trick ourselves to being just humans when in actual fact, we are the WHOLE thing. it causes doubt, existential crisis and for some people, be pulled into dogmatic ideologies I am both the stars, planets, nothingness, human, literally the whole universe. Being human is only one segment It's an important question to ask

Thank you for this conversation @Faceless

Oh, it doesn't mean anything...