electroBeam

https://isha.sadhguru.org/au/en/wisdom/article/kriya-yoga "With the path of kriya you are not only seeking realization, you also want to know the mechanics of life-making" how inspiring!

@Matt8800 Yes but he is not talking about self inquiry, Zen, etc. He is clearly talking about kriya yoga(I specifically differentiated yoga from meditation in my previous post. Yoga is energy work, Meditation is mind work. Clearly Lahiri is using meditation and yoga interchangeably, in the context of this post he means yoga). I'm not going to post videos for the sake of refraining from gossiping, but every Kriya master (Osho especially) values Kriya yoga over meditation. They have realized, as I did, that meditation is ineffective because you cannot control your thoughts, and hence controlling your mind is silly. Kriya yoga(Lahiri confusingly uses the word meditation) on the other hand teaches you to control prana instead. This is a much better approach because you aren't trying to control something you cannot control anyway. I understand you probably had a lot of success with meditation, so now you think it's the one and only technique to use, but bear in mind there are advanced masters who disagree with you(Lahiri for example) who think meditation is stupid while yoga is supreme. Of course there are people on the other side(buddhist) who think yogis are full of shit and don't know anything about consciousness. They are of course wrong.

Isn't that God's way of making sure form manifests the way his Will wants? His way of making sure the world is as perfect as possible? Like how a programmer programs a computer, god programs his creation through controlling our higher self Will?

THanks, managing spiritual energy definitely is valuable. I see you haven't tried Kriya yoga before based on your response. I would be wary of believing meditation is the one and only way of conditioning the mind.

@Matt8800 Magick seems very different compared to the occult that I practice(the egyptian type). I'm trying to figure out if there is any value for me to do it. I don't really care about manipulating the world, but rather exploring very different, interesting states of consciousness. The type of practices that resonate with me is energy practices rather than buddhist or mind type practices(like kriya yoga and tantra, especially tantra). I need to feel the whole body, not just the mind. Is magick just for people who want to manipulate the world? Or is there some value in performing it to explore different states of consciousness. If I do not want to do psychedelics(as a choice) is magick a good replacement? I do care about manipulating the world, but only to the extend of an average person, being a visionary and moving people towards inventing new technology or creating conscious businesses. Is there any value in the occult here? i have nothing against predicting the future, manipulating physical objects in paranormal ways, an other occult stuff like that, but its a distraction and quite frankly boring and mundane. So if magick is just for showing off you can do these thing, best I do something more high yield.

@Harikrishnan Thankyou for compassionately reaching out. Why do you suggest this technique? Is it because it worked for you? What if you're someone who likes to engage in life (tantric/magick way of life - extroverted way of life) rather than engage in your own head(introverted - engage in your own head - yogic way of life). Is this technique applicable to those ones? What makes this technique different than zen? Who is it more for? Also what book or resource did you use? Have you tried left legged tantra? If so, why this technique over that lineage? EDIT: after a superficial read, this technique seems similar to bhakti yoga: you visualize a deity and chant its name until you feel you touch it, feel it, merge with it, cry in its presence. I've got a kriya yoga book that superimposes kriya with bhakti, guess this basically the technique you recommended minus the kriya part?

@kieranperez Creating temples is actually quite complicated. It’s actually a core component of my LP so if you get any resources pls share. pythagoras was the inventor of the cosmos. Cosmos is law and order. There are laws in the universe such as Newtonian physics, but also inner laws like the law of non duality. The laws are consistent. Isn’t that a blessing? Imagine if they weren’t. The laws are consistent because of pythagoras’ invention of the cosmos. Don’t take consistency for granted. To build a temple requires you to embody the principle of a cosmos. Then you incarcerate those principles into gods form. This is what a temple is. the ancient Egyptians knew this, hence pyramids we’re formed.

@Matt8800 yep it certainly is, but meditation isn't the only way to quiet the mind. Kriya yoga does the job just as well, if not better(which is the foundational practice I use). Also there is an entirely different form of spiritual practice called Tantra. It was invented by the Siddhis in Sri Lanka, and its a practice that doesn't require meditation as a foundation... instead its a practice that competes with meditation. The tantric way(also what I practice) is a totally different form of spiritual practice. I acknowledge that meditation can benefit people in remarkable ways, but having said that, some people out there aren't designed for meditation and self inquiry. They need tantric and kriya yoga techniques instead. Its beautiful how there are so many spiritual techniques, that no matter your strengths and weaknesses, you will find one that works.

@Matt8800 I'm also into the occult for the same reasons as you. I had very little success with meditation and self inquiry. Overall it was just too boring for me and nothing really was happening apart from some nice bliss moments. I have a really nice book on the occult: The sacred tradition of ancient egypt Could you (and everyone else) please share resources and your experiences using and practicing the resources? People on here tend to be very much into Buddhism and Zen and more traditional routes. These leaves people like us with a lack of resources and support. So lets build it up! My experience practising ancient Egypt has been very moving. I started practising ancient egypt rituals a year ago, the biggest impact it had on me was my creativity, I was able to tap into infinite intelligence(much like the one described in Leo's video) using the riturals practiced in Ancient Egypt. I've had deep deep visions of engineering and science creations, and completely different perspectives of laws of physics which are totally different to Newtonian and Quantum physics. Its given my a deep life purpose, one to build a highly conscious society that is deeply in touch with intuition and the essence of science(essence of science = exploration + observation).

Hmm this sounds a lot like the life purpose statement that was generated by me after your LP course: "create smart cities that are centered around giving people divine experiences". I read a book by Osho where he said that all revolutions have failed because society is an illusion. All there is, is man. I have no idea what he means, but it sounds legit. Is this true?

@Leo Gura interesting thanks! I also have the same experience. I tried self inquiry and meditation for about a year and it was a failed project. Went to bhakti yoga and kriya yoga and for the past 6 months has been much more effective because you have more stimulus: the whole body rather than just intellect or thoughts(6th sense). having said that, theoretically self inquiry could be as effective as yoga when you consider ramana maharshi advocates it above anything else.

Yes true, but what is the difference between yoga and meditation. Meditation, by definition, reshapes your brain aswell. Is yoga like an advanced technique while meditation is a kindergarten technique? If on the other hand yoga is more powerful than zazen, and at the same time its not an advanced version of meditation, then why do people still use zen? I also acknowledge that some brains get more effects from zen compared to kriya yoga because everyone is different, but as a general understanding, what is the difference between them? Except for the fact that your brain only changes while under that drug. After the drug wears off you're back to normal. Hence why yoga and meditation are still essential, more essential than psychedelics. This is a very popular paradigm in the personal development sector: neuroplasticity and the like, I don't see how that paradigm makes sense in the case of increasing consciousness though. When in awakening experiences, its hard to take the existence of a brain seriously. This doesn't make much sense to me. Like its also designed to get you in touch with different chakras so that you can utilize them effectively to understand the universe, but apart from that yes maybe it doubles your brain. How about we look at it this way: What flavour of insights do you get from self inquiry compared to kriya yoga? Do you get more understanding of NOTHINGNESS in self inquiry, but more awareness of LOVE when doing yoga? What do you feel when doing kriya compared to self inquiry? More energetic less energetic, what do your awakening experiences feel like on kriya vs self inquiry/buddhist meditation? This is valuable not just for me but for everyone here, because we all need different experiences depending on where we are in our spiritual journey. Some of us need more nothingness while others need more love. Different techniques render different facets.

Are you saying that the purpose of yoga is different to the purpose of meditation and inquiry? Are you saying that meditation and self inquiry are not as powerful as yoga? When would someone use meditation instead of yoga or yoga instead of meditation? What is even the difference between yoga and meditation? Are you talking specifically about kriya? Because self inquiry = jnana yoga?

Who are some really prolific scientists of the 21st century(alive right now)? People who work on really yellow stage scientific projects, and have a remarkable level of mastery over the scientific method and possibly mathematics? I'm thinking of modern day Leonardo Da Vincis, Einsteins, Bhor, Leibniz, Henry Poincare, Pythagoras, Douglas Hofstadler, etc? Which universities or research organizations around the world have the most amount of people of this calibre?

@Joseph Maynor YES!! My experience is much more similar to hers than Leo's Having said that: 1. She says that everything and nothing is a stepping stone and she derives that reason from her experience as just 'nothing' and no 'everything'. My experience is the same as hers, I experience literally nothing and I have no idea what Leo means by 'everything' or I've never experienced 'everything' before. Yet I have a feeling that this is an interpretative difference rather than experiential difference, and not because Leo is less advanced than her. Leo might be trying to say everything as in form rather than formless, but I'm not sure. 2. Totally agree with her when she says awakening has nothing to do with changing facts. In my awakening experiences, facts do not change only your perspective of it. Yet at the same time, what DOES change facts(like the physical world being made up) is actually not consciousness work but philosophy work: reading philosophy, intellectual contemplation, etc.. I think Leo mixes consciousness work up with intellectual work, hence he thinks that awakening experiences cause you to loose sense of physical reality or any other relative facts. relative facts only change when you do a lot of intellectual contemplation work, or in other words, authentic western science. 3. Totally agree with her with the lower self and higher self. She said Leo thinks there is a higher self, but in her experience she has only experienced nothingness. I experience the exact same. When I experience no ego, I don't get an experience of being god. I just get an experience that I do not exist. Like whether I'm god, or a self, or a lamp or an alien is totally irrelevant. The whole trying to identify yourself as something game drops away, and hence I do not experience myself as 'God' Reality is just existing the way it is, there is no identification at all. So yeah don't get at all what Leo means by we are 'God' 4. Again agree with her with the distinctions. But again, I think that's because she doesn't do much intellectual contemplation.

whoever invented time was a genius, he/she create an entirely new world from what existed. Time is sort of like a strange looped book keeping system. It keeps track of things that never existed.

Interesting but, what's wrong with imagination? Did you know that there have been multiple cases of art and sculptures erecting spiritual experiences in people? By imagining, one has reached the absolute. If you walk into a temple, and observe the beautiful sculptures and artworks and IMAGINATION on the walls, you can get enlightened. Also do really question whether or not your premise is correct. Do you have proof that self inquiry causes the mind to work the way you think it does? If yes, you are already enlightened, if not then that understanding is IMAGINATION. A blind belief. If you aren't in an enlightened state, any experiences you have had with self inquiry are just memories. And these memories aren't the truth, they are actually just IMAGINATION. Imagination is very powerful, and is a beautiful tool for reaching the absolute. The problem only arises when you use imagination to suffer -> use it to justify hatred, prejudice, attachments to things that aren't worth being attached to, etc. There's nothing inherently wrong with beliefs and imagination. There's nothing wrong with a kitchen knife, infact its deeply helpful. But you can use a kitchen knife to stab and kill someone.

@Maya_0 You forgot to Ask the malicious jester profound questions. You should go back and ask him. Of course not with English, but with the language of the soul.

This whole topic has a very long history: Its called 'meditation'. Or that's at least what its definition was pre renaissance.

I have been astral projecting every morning for 6 months continuously now for enhancing my life purpose. I am really struggling to integrate my insights and experiences into the physical world after astral projecting. Astral projection seems like a dream after coming back, even though it feels more real than the physical universe while you're doing it. How do you effectively integrate the experiences so that you draw insights and new perspectives from the physical world, using the insights from the astral world? How do you properly bring back what you discovered in the astral world to the physical world, ideally perfectly?

what about a non dual view of creation: The manifestation of life could be called a 'creation'. God's form as the creation, and the formless as the creator. "it does not matter to god whether we spread truth or lie" Does that imply then, that we have free will? Does god have the power to control whether we lie or tell the truth? If not why? If God has that control, then why is God letting us spread lies? After all, God is pure love. Christians say that the reason why God allows crime and hatred in this world is because he gave us free will, but in my experience, free will doesn't exist. I don't have control over the next word I write in this sentence right now. Its happening completely out of my control. When you understand that, then why is evil happening?

What are the tellable signs that while you are reading this post you are not dreaming? What is it about that that makes you 'know' you aren't dreaming? Do you have not belief but evidence for it, a 'spiritual' feel for it? Can't you then imagine that this feel can be used to guage how real astral projection is? But what's the point in figuring out if astral projection is real or a dream, when you aren't even sure if your ordinary life is a dream? Surely you must figure out the validity of your baseline(your state now) before using this baseline to figure out other realm's validity? What if instead, you observed the astral realm for what it is, without judging or figuring out its validity, and just draw insights from the pure empirical evidence you get? No need to figure out how real it is, so long as its helping you understand reality more.

- why does god want it that way? Why has god pushed us all, his creation, to know the Truth and spread it? Is a creation that knows itself the perfect creation? Why then does the devil and illusion exist? where did it come from? who is illusion's creator? If god didn't create illusion how then does it exist as it is?

Yes of course there are benefits to it. But it depends what are benefits to you and what aren't benefits to you? If you want to realize that the universe isn't 'clockwork' or 'mechanistic' then yes its a benefit. If you want to bring out subconscious traumas you have and heal them, then yes its a benefit. If you wish to get enlightened and you want AP for that, then no it wont do that for you. If you want AP to make you smarter, better at sex, or anything else, then no AP wont do that for you either.

I understand what you are saying. When I wake up, I loose all memories of my dream in about 5 seconds. Same with AP(or its slightly better). How do I make the memories more vivid? Surely there's techniques while DOING astral projection to compliment your ability to remember what happened. This is just my experience, but you gotta be more gentle on the re-entry or exit if this starts to happen.