electroBeam

Because you've got a script in your head(which you're unconscious of) telling you how people should and shouldn't act. And if people act like this then they are that and if people act like that then they are this. If people make a critique that you think is stupid then they are idiots, and if people keep replying to the thread then they are attention seekers. But this is all just conditioning of your mind, conditioning you probably got from your parents, or possibly a teacher you admire. There is no fundamental, metaphysical law which proves that coming back to a thread makes someone an attention seeker. There is no law that replying to Leo's posts makes someone an attention seeker. This is all arbitrary and something you made up in your head a long long time ago, so long that you've become unconscious of the programming. I do what I feel like. I'm not trying to prove anybody anything. If I cared about what you thought, I would not come back to this forum to prove to you that I'm not an attention seeker and I'm some sort of wise man. But in reality that would just be me following some arbitrary rules that you made up - particularly the rule that non attention seekers don't keep coming onto this thread. If you're acting authentically and honestly, do you seriously think constricting your behaviour to some arbitrary rules is the way to do it? No it's not. Truly acting authentically and honestly is spontaneity, doing what you feel like. NOT following arbitrary rules, but rather following the stream of consciousness. This spontaneity may mean writing critiques, coming back to a thread, telling people what you actually think which gets you disapproval, burping in front of people, and a whole bunch of stuff you probably look at in disgust with your made up and imaginary rules you made up. When you live spontaneously, no rules apply. You may seem to be mentally masturbating, debating, arguing, being dualistic, being low conscious, etc. But in reality you're following that authentic drive, wherever it takes you. Your rules don't matter to me. And I'll break a lot of your rules. So don't expect some "can you explain that to me" answer. You simply won't get one you're looking for.

@Patrick Lynam Thank god it's Rockhampton, I was worried your poor soul was going to say Ipswich.

dubbo hahaha. Look, it's very possible to get attached to meditation and to fall in love with the practice instead of the intention to know truth. You could have this idea of what enlightenment is(which is delusion by default) and be chasing that and focusing on using meditation to get to that, going on a wrong path. You could also use meditation as a way of boosting your spiritual ego if you have one. I would also be weary of people who say they would never quit meditation. Meditation is a tool like nuclear energy. If you are scared of dropping it, chances are your practice is distracting you from integrating what's 'under' that fear, and the counter intuitive approach would be TO drop meditation and rather fully surrender and be present on what that fear is. So not saying for you to drop meditation, but wanted to give an opposite perspective to what others here are saying.

It certainly is a mirror depending on what mental state you're in, but realizing most people in life are full of shit is not uncomfortable, it's liberating. and if you don't life the phrase "most people are full of shit", because you want to view them as not real and are imaginary, then at the very least realizing what most people say, act, is actually bullshit is just as liberating.

Actually no. Spiral dynamics goes horizontally, not vertically. There are some good sides to stage blue like discipline. You wouldn't think saying a marathon runner is at the start of a race is an insult. Why are dinosaurs less cool than chickens? When it comes to the relative, evolution occurs infinitely. Creatures will continue to evolve forever. And I'm convinced Spiral dynamics goes on forever as well. It's just that people haven't gone up to turquoise yet, or they will get sick of the theory and try a different paradigm(yes spiral dynamics is just a paradigm). So there is no reason to feel superior being at the top. Because there will always be stages above. Spiral dynamic stages are largely correlated with environmental and external circumstances. People can (not necessarily jump down) go down a stage if their environment gets tough. Because lower stages are better at survival in some circumstances than higher stages. So no stage is absolutely superior to the other. But honestly, I thought maybe my critique is wrong, maybe people here aren't getting hung up on the elitist way spiral dynamics is presented. So I experimented with this hypothesis on you, and clearly you failed the test. You're just one, a small sample size, so can't really be taken seriously. Disagree with me all you want, you have every right to. But be careful about dismissing my critique because you think you aren't falling into the traps I outlined, when actually deep down you are. What you think you've embodied and what you've actually embodied can be 2 very different things. It's quite shocking when you realize that for the first time on here, how full of shit everyone really is, and how much they don't know about themselves.

@FoxFoxFox Are these past lives real? Do you actually believe them? If they are imaginary, what use are they to take them seriously?

1. What's more effective, dropping all beliefs, insights, experiences, till there's nothing left, or integrating all beliefs, insights, experiences, till its all integrated? 2. Desires for enlightenment are a double edge sword. If you believe the wrong stuff about enlightenment, you can go towards a direction of delusion and not even realise it, believing its actually enlightenment. You could also interpret your awakening experiences through the lens of the belief of this desire. But at the same time desire can be used to avoid procrastination or to overcome the ego's dislike for meditation. What's your experience with this? 3. Is truth and happiness correlated?

maybe we should exploit, take advantage of the British people, make a fortune 500 British company, in an effort to accelerate the people's resentment for corporate corruption, and have fun while doing it in the process.

Sure, but the motivations for why an American tells an Italian immigrant to go back to their country, and why a forum user tells another forum user to leave are the same. They both don't like change, or are unhappy with their belief system being criticised. Americans don't target immigrants for no good reason - this is just liberal BS. They target immigrants because they change their country, either by working for less and take jobs, because immigrants complain about Christmas(hence why its now happy holidays), changing social norms, or criticising the government for their invasion on the middle east (a lot of immigrants from the middle east do). This causes Americans to react. They don't like people changing their country. And what happens when you cause change in a little hippy commune? Same thing. What happens when you voice change in this forum? Same thing. People here are addicted to insights, chasing something imaginary, believing in outlandish beliefs, mental masturbation, excessive positivity. They don't want someone to change that or to reveal that's what happening, because just like the Americans, this way of life is making them happy and any change to that will make them miserable. Of course forum members can leave while immigrants can't. But the motivations behind forum members and Americans are the same. This was the point I was making But besides that, this idea that you shouldn't criticise any courses because you can just leave is a silly and dangerous idea. You can criticise whoever you want, and in some cases you should. In fact a whole section of this forum is dedicated to criticising things they have no need to be apart of. Lots of people on here criticise evangelicals. Should we tell them that if they don't like evangelicals then they should just not watch them? Why is this forum criticising cults like Mooji's? "If you don't like mooji then just don't watch". Why are you criticising See I think the above statements are foolish. just because its non compulsory, doesn't mean its unethical to criticise it. This forum is ok with criticising other cults, but when someone does it to them, its all "you can leave if you don't like it". Sure and you can leave Mooji, evangelicals, hillsong, rational scientists, etc. Alone aswell.

reminds me of when immigrants complain about the laws of US or Australia, and then the blue stage rednecks tell them to go back to the country they came from. When actually criticism of a country is valuable for making it better. You must be a blue stage person

Great points, especially 3 4 7 and 9. Which points did you get from Jamie Wheal? What spiritual teachers do you listen to? Whether someone likes or hates your message has nothing to do with truth. In most cases its got to do with whether their bullshit belief system resonates with what you say. After all, they use their paradigm to judge how true what you say is. So in a way, what others say is pointless. Despite this, kudos for the post.

Western Science as it is run today is predicated on materialism. These are a bunch of 'rules' which control how metaphysical phenomena is interpreted. Which in turn controls what this phenomena can and cannot do. As for a basic example, if we assume newton's laws(which his laws are predicated upon an external reality in 3D space made of atoms and molecules), then a pen cannot go through a table, because the force will repel. And if we do an experiment to see if this is true its confirmed. Here is an example of how materialism controls metaphysical phenomena. The reason why a pen cannot go through a table isn't because its a universal law, its because that's how we interpret this phenomena. If we were to look at reality from a different perspective, we could make the pen go through a wall(also called the art of the occult). But is the essence of western science really materialism? Why must the scientific method adhere to materialism? Is there any reason why we couldn't apply the scientific method to a different paradigm like phenomenology, instead of interpreting the phenomena of empirical tests as materialistic, we interpret it with a phenomenological perspective? Science evolves over time, but is this not because science and the 'ism' that it belongs to is separate? If science was tangled up with a particular 'ism' then science couldn't evolve? Maybe western science at its essence isn't tangled up with a particular 'ism'? Maybe at its essence its a process of quantity. The creation of 'cosm'. Nothing to do with a particular viewpoint(like idealism, materialism, etc). Maybe the process of western science can be applied to multiple 'isms'. Pluto thought mathematics was idealist rather than realist? Maybe the fact that this is possible is a sign that science has nothing to do with 'isms'. Maybe science is really the art of making 'qualia' out of 'quanta'(qualities from quantities). Isn't this really a much better description of the essence of science? We can make different colours(qualia) out of different quantities of red, green, blue. We can make different drugs out of different quantities of chemicals. If a shape has 4 sides its a square, 6 its a hexagon. Maybe from a phenomenological perspective, science is about mastering the art of controlling different quantities to produce different qualities or phenomena in our life. Imagine what science would be like if we used it in a way where it was 'ism' independent, we change the ism depending on how we would like to view a particular phenomena? Imagine if we stripped science of all the isms, used it purely as a process of making qualia out of quanta. What this could mean for boosting the effectiveness of our meditation, yoga, occult. Being able to use western science to control the qualia in our mind using quanta so that we have more 'no mind', induce 'trance' for boosting our meditation or so we could access different states of consciousness. Etc. This is how we could build visual stimulants, neuro feedback machines, etc that actually work. Maybe this is what it looks like when western science is used for spirituality and mysticism. Maybe with this mindset we could use science to produce technology that would enhance our spiritual development. Maybe with this mindset we can integrate western science with meditation, yoga, chakras, the occult, psychedelics, to better organise all that karma and beliefs we have about this subject so that we can more effectively use spiritual concepts for spiritual development. Maybe this is how we can use western science to 'time travel', truly enable humans to be 'breatharians', etc. Of course western science is by nature separatist/reductionist rather than holistic. Which would limit it even if we could apply different isms to it. But this is where the idea of integrating it with other holistic sciences gets interesting. Not using western science alone, but using it with eastern sciences like ayurveda, chinese traditional medicine, hinduism, etc could open new opportunities to combine the strengths of both and produce a revolution in techniques, technologies and concepts for reaching the divine. EDIT: I may be talking about mathematics more than science looking in retrospect. I'm making a meta point about the power of mathematical based sciences. Osho believe that pythagoras created the 'cosm' which is what science is at a very essential level.

It's very easy to be happy: law of attraction, psychotherapy, Escher Hick's stuff, etc. But it's not easy to be honest. And honesty and happiness are not the same. What if you're goal isn't to know the truth, but to be happy? Some people are ok with suffering and depression so long as it brings them Truth. @mandyjw what's interesting is there seems to be 2 approaches, including everything, and dropping everything.

On the one hand, that is very intelligent of you, thankyou for that answer. On the other hand, where did this idea come from that you must act a certain way? Why must you do this and that? Rather than what you authentically feel? or for some other reason? And how do you know that responsibility is shared? What if responsibility is neither shared nor not shared? What if the insight you are pointing to has nothing to do with responsibility, and it seems like it does so because the ego has very very sneakily hijacked the insight. Be very very very careful of seemingly to observe any structure in the universe. Many structures that feel like real insights, awakenings, etc. Are actually unknowingly distortions of those awakenings. The new age movement in general, has an extremely subtle need for positivity, security etc. And it's covered up as a valuable insight or truth. Devilry is not limited to beliefs, it's also insight. That's why traditional Zen teachers totally dismiss insights as bullshit. yep counter to the entire paradigm of the new age movement.

There seems to be this idea going around here that the student is fully responsible for his or her actions and therefore the teacher cannot be criticised for the bullshit he or she says. This idea only goes so far. Do you have the same view with an ISIS leader? Or a Zen teacher that molests a student? or a KKK leader? Have some decency for God's sake. If you aren't ready to teach, don't delude people into thinking you know what you're talking about. Teachers aren't responsible free.

maybe, or maybe electroBeam's problems have nothing to do with the ego at all. Maybe electroBeam's ego is completely irrelevant. maybe electroBeam was just commenting on the structure of the new age + actualized.org itself, as seen through his erroneous, incorrect, wrong perspective, just outlining what he authentically saw. maybe he saw that the very act of calling an experience/the truth something, immediately made the psyche misinterpret that experience, and believe that belief, instead of remembering the experience, while unknowingly believing its remembering the experience. Maybe he saw that there is no correlation between a word and an experience, and any belief in one causes devilry/illusion. Maybe he saw that calling the truth a cow, is just as close to the truth as calling it one. Maybe he saw calling the truth as blue, is as close to the truth as calling it Love. And believing that this is not the case is the very thing that perpetuates a completely made up, imaginary, delusional, spiritual paradigm, while deluding yourself into thinking anyone who disagrees just hasn't done the work. Maybe he saw that its impossible to make a pointer, because you cannot point to the truth. Maybe he saw what people point to doesn't exist. Maybe he saw that the new age movement is essentially applying western science principles. Having an awakening experience, then labelling it, and effectively making a belief about it and getting sucked into it without knowing. Just like how western scientists misinterpret their experiments and make a belief about it. Maybe he just sees this, from his very limited perspective, happening on the forum, in new age videos, in any talk about spirituality, and so he just wants to abandon the whole thing for a while. Maybe electroBeam sees insights, awakening experiences, enlightenment, trying to get to the truth, truth itself, literally everything being talked about on here AND everything being pointed to, as being completely bullshit. In electroBeam's current perspective, there is no ego, LP course, no such thing as results, no such thing as a distraction, Leo's teachings, from the point of truth, its just all made up, all of it. Nothing to do with the truth electroBeam is looking for, or cares about. electroBeam doesn't care about spirituality anymore, electroBeam just cares about the NOW, the THIS, and all of this site, and every other new age site, is not talking about THIS, they are talking about their paradigm, while believing they are talking about THIS, when that's not true at all. That's all electroBeam is saying, if this doesn't clear up the misinterpretations of his original post, nothing will. And it doesn't matter, it doesn't change anything.

Sure, if you want to believe that I made this critique because I just mentally masturbated all day, or because I hate Leo, that's fine, you can believe whatever you want. As I said in the original post, this isn't me attacking Leo, "this is an authentic account of me purging the actualized.org belief system built up over time, along with all of the errors and shortcomings of this particular perspective". Don't get too caught up in such an account, it's just a perspective. Of course Leo has great teachings(as said at the bottom of my post). Of course, most people on here don't resonate with the critique and so they jump to the conclusion that mental masturbation is at play. If only they know meditation doesn't rid you of the paradigm. If you're chasing enlightenment, or are trying to be more spiritual, because you believe something special about it, you're in the paradigm, you just don't know it. Even if you do the work, your mind will twist the interpretations of the insights, awakenings to fit it. And thats why I said at the bottom that I'm now looking to live in a place without spiritual words and concepts for a while. And I do listen to other teachers of course, what I forgot to mention was this really wasn't a critique of actualized.org alone, it was a critique of the new age movement as a whole, specialising in Leo's videos. I'm critiquing the west's complete bastardisation of spirituality to make it it's own little island in the sea of life, because the West are a bunch of over enthusiastic, over excited, content driven, dramatic bunch of people. Even if they have insights, people don't get/are not aware of how much their belief system shapes those insights and awakenings - clearly. But again, I'm just saying what I see, and what makes me feel a lot better and relieved, if you disagree with me you have every right to.

that guy looks like he's gonna shoot lasers out of his eyes.

Well said, 200% agree. The more spirituality you absorb, the more it bites you in the ass and the more you need to let it go.

Is Gaia a valuable resource? Are the teachers high quality, how deep do they go into spirituality? Are they for deep meditators or just noobs? Are they for westerners or easterners?

wow you're right.

haha nice advice guys. But the blue being wasn't an entity, it was blue 'being', being God. It was a way to describe nonduality.

I'm struggling with a low self esteem/FOMO problem with higher education (university and above). My Love Hate Relationship with education Ever since I was a kid I've had a complex relationship with education. I remember back when I was 6 or so I loved it. As we all are, very curious, excited and amazed by the world. I remember reading heaps of science books, just simply fascinated and in awe with its complex and beautiful creation (and even though I know much more and am much more advanced in science now than then, paradoxically I'm trying to go back to that place LOL). But then primary/elementary school got deeper into theory. School became less about the 'airy fairy' stuff, and more about memorisation, practice and repetition. The awe and inspiration got replaced with mechanism; in the name of discipline. This is where my relationship with education started to take a turn and get a bit messy. Added with the fact that I was severely bullied, I no longer saw education as a place of wonder, and rather saw it as a machine. I began to get bad marks in junior school, which lead to heaps of negative complications: loss of good relationship with parents, teachers. I was in the 'opportunity class' which means it was full of the kids with the highest marks in our school. Very elitist there, so the bad marks lead to me being severely bullied, ostracised, etc. (many other factors caused it but this was one). I got bad marks because I believe I have some mental disabilities, such as short term memory loss, lack of concentration ability, difficulty understanding concepts, etc. My mind also thinks very differently to the average person. My mind works holistically. Its needs to know the whole picture for it to understand and retain important information. It needs to know the trunk, then work out the leaves using the trunk as a scaffold and reference point, rather than just working out all the different leaves one at a time all randomly (like what school does). I found that education ripped out a page from the maths text book, which was discovered in 4BC or whatever. Completely ignored the history that lead to the discovery, completely ignored why it was discovered, its purpose, how it connects with all the other knowledge, what mindset the inventor had, how societal and culture affected that mathematical theory, etc. Instead they explain the concept logically, then give you a series of varied text book exercises to do to learn it. My mind cannot learn well with this approach, it simply rejects the knowledge. In my opinion, once you've seen junior school mathematics, history, English class, science, etc. You've seen the entirety of all those subjects. Maths doesn't change after junior school, the thing that changes is the content, but the content is just different permutations and combinations of the essence of mathematics - the same process/rules/idea. I read a good book once that taught 'wisdom' of mathematics rather than content. Techniques like if a problem is too hard, invent an easier problem, solve that, then use that as a stepping stone to a harder problem. Just try out random numbers and see if it works, it taught what the difference between strategy and technique is, etc. I wish school taught this, but instead I felt like I stopped learning maths in junior school and spun my wheels ever since until I left education. With the internet these days, why is there so much emphasis on memorisation and wrote learning? This lead to me having severe motivational issues with schooling, causing bad grades. School also punishes you and rewards you, not for critical thinking, but for how well you can emulate the process being taught to you, or in the case of English literature or history, how well you can reaffirm the English teacher's beliefs and point of view about a particular scene of a play or book. I see value in this emulation process: this is how skills are developed, but I question do we really need to do 16 years (school plus uni) of it to get the performance we need? In fact I would argue learning just 3 months of it is sufficient - the fundamental principles - the process, not content. Beyond school I've learnt to apply post grad formulas without having to do hundreds of hours of it, in actuality just an afternoon session was sufficient. Also school hates to mix subjects together, let alone concepts in the same subject together!! Why can't we have projects where we design paper or straw bridges using the maths and design we learnt in school? Why can't we 'feel' our formulas by using it in real life a straw bridge, why can't we play around and see what works and doesn't, and see how it mixes with other formulas, systems, etc? Schools teach in this way for a mix of reasons: 1) they have dogmas 2) its more efficient, cheap and objective to teach this way 3) They teach to help society maintain itself rather than grow. My low self esteem and FOMO with school In university I failed a year of subjects, then dropped out to make a startup. The startup is going quite successful, more successful than most, but its not guaranteed to set my survival needs for life yet. And its really grilling to live in this environment, also its not my life purpose, through applying consciousness to what I'm doing in this startup, I've seen too much, I've seen how the very societal system of a startup is rigged from the beginning to keep the filthy rich in power and control. Because I don't have a degree, failed subjects, and have a bad relationship with education, I've got a bit of trauma and its so vast and messy and complex I don't know how to resolve it. It affects my confidence, mental capacity and happiness on a daily basis. I feel like a bit of an impostor at times with this startup. How can the CTO of a highly advanced AI medical startup not have a PHD(like all the other AI medical startups???) let alone a college degree??? Maybe I'm missing some very fundamental skills in uni, and because I haven't undergone the whole thing, I'm not performing the best at this startup? Damn this startup is not where I belong, I belong helping the world and advancing science, and here I am just helping the rich get richer and stay in control. Maybe if I kept in uni I would be an Einstein and be helping the world? Maybe the real reason why I couldn't handle uni is because I'm dumb. And if I'm dumb how the hell am I going to pull of this startup and achieve my ultimate life purpose? Because I haven't been to uni, I've lost the opportunity to be mentored and get connected with the brightest scientists in the world, meaning I can never learn deep skills needed to be successful in my LP! I've lost the connections to be able to attend highly advanced scientific conferences about nature and the environment, meaning I'm out of the loop of the place I want to be etc. etc. etc. Plus of course the social pressure for uni: parents telling you, you should do it otherwise you're doomed, employers telling you its important and you should do it, etc. Plus the lack of credibility you get when you speak to investors, customers, etc and you don't have a degree. Resolution? I actually went back to uni after being out of it for 6 months to 1 year to try it again (happened beginning this year), but again I didn't like, so I left again. I have been kicked out of uni since and to go back I would have to redo my entire degree, which is quite hard while doing a startup. And I get so so so so so much more enjoyment out of listening and practicing meditation, yoga, chakras, etc. Going meta, etc. This feels much much much more useful, meaningful and impactful than hundreds of thousands of years of uni. And this just adds to my confusion. When I do uni I feel like I am wasting my time, because I can be using that time to study and practice the stuff that's on this site. How do I overcome these low self esteem issues? Should I go back to uni?

Yes but as you said before, the amount of facets are finite. So if its finite its possible to become conscious of them all and so I was just asking what do you do when all facets have been explored.

Is there anything left to be conscious of after Self-Love, and if there isn't what's left to do? Create? And how long (lifetimes/years) would it take an average American to reach Self-Love?