electroBeam

I'm about 3 to 4 years ahead of you. My circumstances and train of thought is slightly different but similar. Everything you worry about is bullshit. Don't worry about your parents for now. Go be a neuro feedback psychologist or whatever. Your parents will need you in 30 years time... not now. Your parents are adults, they can handle not being around you. I get though you're asian so you probably have a deep attachment to parents, but even asian have to leave their parent's houses eventually. You can't put too much on your plate at the beginning or you will burn out. Have a very narrow, single focus mind, just go do your LP. Doing everything at once never works. My parents at this moment are extremely disappointing with me because of my LP. They wanted me to be a successful scientist... instead I dropped university/college and made a startup which will take another 10 years to provide financial freedom, if it will at all. But this is your life, not you're mum's. Even though your mum has brainwashed you to think that she knows what's best for you more than you do, its not true. Actually that's just passive aggressive bullying. Take responsibility for your life dude. Do you think Jesus's mum approved of him being on the street telling everyone to love each other???? C'mon. Nelson Mandela's first gf/wife divorced him because he decided to sacrifice his freedom for his people. Even if this decision is stupid from a asian sort of 'financial security' perspective, and even if you struggle to survive through this path, the growth from the struggle far outweighs any benefits you can get from financial security. If you're planning to do anything worth while, you will not get approval from your parents or family. You're on your own, and that is scary, but necessary for a good LP.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/extraordinary-weather-event-led-to-death-of-firefighter-samuel-mcpaul-20191231-p53nsf.html God the madman.

What's funny is that pre Trump's election, half of my family members liked Trump, while the other half hated him. Now all of them like Trump and think he's doing good for America. If my family were American, more would vote for him now then before.

If you want to toy with this sort of reasoning about God, a much more productive direction would be to 'prove' properties and qualities of God, like infinite intelligence, properties of the evolution of God, etc. This would be much more beautiful because you will actually get somewhere, and contribute to the creative process God exhibits.

Take mescaline instead of LSD and shrooms then. If it's too scary for you right now. Then after 100 trips of mescaline, go back to taking heroic doses of shrooms. With Psychs in my opinion, it's much like gym training. You pick a weight that puts you out of your comfort zone, but not so far that you break an arm. You build up to heavier weights by going through safe amounts of pain, discomfort, fear and agony. Psychedelics are definitely not meant to be pleasant experiences. They are meant to "hurt".

Yeah the tolerance is a real downer. Because of that shrooms are not that good for microdosing. Something like DMT or a non tolerance building psychedelic may be better for it. Kriya yoga doesn't develop a tolerance, and it may be interesting to try kriya yoga daily and shrooms every week (or 2 depending on tolerance). Some portion of psilocybin gets broken down and excreted in your body due to premature digestion, meaning not all of the psychedelic gets to your brain. Syrian Rue allegedly prevents break down, ensuring a larger portion of the chemical gets to the brain and not excreted. While this is scientifically what happens, in real life things don't quite work this way. Not only does the experience get more intense, but the experience changes from a regular shroom trip.

I've taken Syrian Rue with approximately 0.5 grams of shrooms, and the potency caused an infinite ego death loop. Can't say for sure but syrian rue probably multiplied the trip by 3. Instead of microdosing, why don't you take shrooms every 2 weeks (to wear off the tolerance) and take something like 13 grams? Then you're bound not to fail even if you are a heavy weight.

Yep you read the title, its another cringe worthy critique on actualized.org.............. or if you're a brainwashed, adamant actualized.org follower, its another 'great insight!' or if you've been brainwashed by actualized.org's dogmas to the point of no return, its an 'ego backlash', a 'projection' of actualized.org, 'devilry', someone who hasn't gone 'full circle yet' hahahaha, someone who hasn't become a mod yet and therefore doesn't know what he's talking about. Because lets face it, what Leo preaches in his videos, how Leo and his followers sometimes act on this forum are 2 very different things. An ego backlash was meant to describe someone whose ego has overly distorted their reality after a spiritual experience, but in reality is that always how its used here? Or rather is an ego backlash a term someone uses when they have genuine critiques of certain dogmas of actualized.org, and people don't like that so they cover it up with that term? Projection was meant to describe someone who distorts the words someone says based on their biases and beliefs, but is that also how this term is always used? Or rather is it used when someone is exposing the biases and devilry of a particular user's, or group of user's beliefs, and that user or group doesn't like it and so throws the 'projection' card? devilry was meant to describe the illusory nature of the mind, but in reality, at least part of the time, its used to enforce a dogma of actualized.org, which is that non duality is BETTER than duality. Disclaimer These critiques are generalisations, and therefore are inaccurate by default. For if they were accurate, it would take 200 pages to write. What's written here is not designed to persuade users one way or another, for if it was designed to persuade users, I would be falling into the trap of 'trying to be right' which is another unhealthy trait this forum sometimes has. So don't expect to get persuaded. And even if I did, the dogmas of actualized.org is so dense that plenty of egos here would find a way to twist the terminology of Leo's preachings to 'prove' I'm wrong. Rather this is an account of someone who is purging the belief system built up from Actualized.org as a whole, from his current perspective, with all of the egoic errors and shortcomings that perspective may hold. It feels right for me to give an authentic account of what I believe actualized.org is, and because its authentic I think this is something of value to share. Not to debate over though. Also these critiques will have no evidence to support them, for firstly I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, and secondly providing evidence would give people the opportunity to distort that evidence to their, or actualized.org's mega ego's agenda and cause a debate, especially in such a hot topic like this one. I would rather people call me a liar than get into such a debate. Also, in the unlikely event people do get persuaded by the stuff here, its not meant to be used as ammo to further corrupt Leo's preachings, or as an excuse to fall into unhealthy habits such as being lazy, procrastinating, being vicious. Nor should it be used to slander Leo in any way. It should definitely not be used to prove another side is right, such as Rational Wiki. I expect this post to get locked, or severely criticised(assuming people read it), for if it didn't, I wouldn't be highlighting valuable critiques, I would somehow still be conforming to the dogmas of actualized.org. This should feel wrong for most people, because anything that goes against their belief system should feel wrong. And therefore I should look like a devil to most people on this forum. The Critique These critiques are not categorised, they are in line with the stream of thought coming out of my mind. Some Spiritual Dogmas of What is Preached in Leo's Videos The Seriousness of Pursuing Enlightenment is Toxic Enlightenment here is taken too seriously. There is too much enthusiasm, passion and desire for enlightenment. This causes actualized.org followers to put massive amounts of focus, time and energy on thinking about enlightenment concepts, talking about enlightenment concepts, dreaming and desiring enlightenment concepts (even though they think they are desiring enlightenment because they are not aware that there is a difference between the concept of enlightenment and enlightenment itself). Too much passion and desire and energy around spirituality leads to actualized.org followers subtly believing the concepts without experiencing them(because they are too passionate about spirituality to not drop those beliefs), leading them to misinterpret or have the wrong ideas about what the concepts are actually pointing to..... or even worse, having a spiritual experience and then subtly misinterpreting that experience to reaffirm their incorrect and absurd notions of what they THINK not KNOW what the spiritual concept is pointing to. Too much passion, desire and energy around spirituality leads to actualized.org followers dismissing elements of life that are not deemed 'spiritual'. What's deemed spiritual is completely relative and arbitrary, but actualized.org followers are unaware of this. Some believe everything Leo talks about (and possibly other spiritual teachers) is spiritual, while everything else, like arguing with your mum, is not. This leads to focusing on life very narrowly, not appreciating, accepting and enjoying the non spiritual elements of life. And even if they are, some are only appreciating those elements of life because they have labelled those parts of life as 'spiritual' so long as they apply Leo's teachings to those non spiritual elements of life. Whenever you label something as spiritual, you are assigning constraints on those particular elements of life unknowingly. You are assigning Leo's teachings, Leo's attitudes and values (which are purely arbitrary beliefs), your standards of what spiritual is, how you must behave in front of it, etc. To those elements of life, effectively limiting your liberation. For most people on this forum, suggesting to them that they should try to live a happy, loving, joyful life, 'unspiritual' life(a life with no spirituality whatsoever), would automatically be rejected because they have developed a spiritual ego around being spiritual. How are these 2 toxic points sustained by Actualized.orgs's Preachings? Multiple things, here are a few: This passion is sustained by Actualized.org's teaching style. Actualized.org's teaching style is highly captivating, getting people sucked and in love with his content. He uses key words like 'profound', 'shocking'. Uses rational words like 'results', 'success' to describe spiritual content, which causes laymen to misinterpret them and get overly passionate about those misinterpretations. Elitism in Spirituality One of Actualized.org's dogmas is projecting elitism into life. Firstly he's created a duality between what's 'spiritual' and what's 'not spiritual'. Then he's created an entire belief system around what constitutes as being 'spiritual' and 'non spiritual'. Then he's projected an elitist 'pedestal', where he places 'spirituality' way above 'non spirituality'. This belief system runs very deep and would take pages to outline, but we all know what it is because we follow him. He uses words 'high conscious' vs 'low conscious' to create a duality between superior activities, beliefs and people vs inferior ones. He specifically indoctrinates his followers to believe that 'spiritual', 'high conscious' activities, beliefs and people are better, superior, more intelligent, survive better, etc. To 'low conscious', 'unspiritual' people. Making actualized.org's followers egos try to avoid the 'unspiritual' stuff because they fear being inferior to a group of people. They have a fear of developing low self esteem from being low conscious - very very fucked up and twisted. He projects this in a multitude of ways: he implies that unspiritual people are 'monkeys', 'apes', are low on the yogic chakra system(implying the yogic chakra system is a measure of superiority), low vs high on spiral dynamics(again spiral dynamics is implying a scale of superiority). He pushes us to go up the spiral, chakra system, so that we can become more superior. Attack and Suppression of Duality Duality is considered inferior to non duality. Multiple critiques on rationality, western science, etc. Have been made. While critiques on these topics are valid, Actualized.org has critiqued them from his 'elitist' perspective (mentioned above). This enforces the notion that western science, rationality, is below, inferior to spirituality. This is a dogma, and its wrong. Just because scientists are wrong about Truth, this does not make scientists or science inferior. It just makes them wrong. They are as spiritual, beautiful and superior as any of us are. And besides whether they are wrong or right, science itself, as looked at as a creation of God, is not more wrong than any of Actualized.org 's spiritual dogmas that he makes in his videos, not just the ones where he's aware that its a story, even the one's he's not aware of. They are 2 sides of the same coin: duality and non duality, and neither one is more True than the other. This makes any claims he makes about some aspect of duality being superior or more true than non duality as completely dogmatic. His claim that 'Self-Love' is a higher teaching to 'warp teleportation machines' is wrong. They are both as high as each other, again duality and non duality are 2 sides of the same coin. Having such a mindset causes the problems mentioned above, but also creates an artificial spiritual ego which separates you from reality. It reduces your ability to appreciate duality and makes you opinionated about spiritual concepts, and causes you to debate and fight over non duality vs duality, which is absurd. Elitism In The Forum The elitist beliefs have had an impact on the way the forum works. Moderator's views are appreciated and taken seriously much more than non moderator's views, because moderators are 'high conscious' while everyone else is 'low conscious'. Followers have an urge to be Right (I don't need examples for this, surely). Because if they are not Right, they will be deemed by others as being 'low conscious', inferior, not as intelligent, not on the same page and are below everyone, below in spiral dynamics, etc. Which means egos are afraid of getting low self esteem if they are disapproved by the others (especially moderators) on here. This re-enforces and ensures actualized.org's dogmas are kept and not changed (unless Leo makes a new video then all of the dogmas switch to that, completely independent of critical thinking of the followers). If users do begin to disagree with the dogmas of the group too seriously(like winterknight) they will be controlled by being given warning points, being banned, etc. To ensure that posts are encouraged to fall in the line of dogmas of actualized.org, posts that showcase the dogmas are put as 'Featured', which re-enforces the dogmas by other actualized.org followers and encourages them make posts like that. If you want to see how these are dogmas, just look at how the beliefs of the forum changes based on what video Leo makes. Dogmas and Collective Spiritual Ego is Reinforced by Repetitively Using Terminology, Sometimes in a Corrupt way. Words that Leo preach in his preachings are repetitively used in actualized.org to reinforce the dogmas of the group. Its important to note that most, if any, of actualized.org followers have not experienced what the words are pointing to, and so repeating these words in the forum creates a dogmatic belief system. A lot of the words Leo uses are unique to this belief system, and are not found outside of it. Some words that are used: 1. ego backlash 2. projection 3. devilry 4. Going full circle: actualized.org followers use this term to describe things which have nothing to do with going full circle, or have nothing to do with Leo's original intention he wrote in his infinite insights blog. Reinforcing a dogma and distorting reality. 5. Love: lots of times used out of context to describe beliefs and dogmas 6. vibrations 7. Creative Intelligence etc etc etc. The Path After This Purge This path, the actualized.org path, is finally doing me more harm then good. The more I study and practice what's here, the more suffering, delusion I go through. This belief system fundamentally doesn't serve me anymore. I'm now on the lookout for a teacher or teachings which takes the beliefs of spirituality much less seriously, laughs and enjoys life, lives a normal life rather than a 'spiritual' life, and including spirituality as part of that 'normal' life rather than the other way around, has a very minimalist lifestyle, lacks opinion (especially heavy ones), lacks talking about spirituality that much, appreciates and enjoys duality. the way of meditation comes to mind. Final Notes Am I saying that actualized.org hasn't helped me at all and is a cult? Of course not. Infact, because of how theoretical it is, its helped me a lot. Back when I started, I was an atheist, and as an atheist I needed a teaching like this. I looked at 'the way of meditation' as being boring, because the spiritual concepts were too boring, its taken me 3-5 years to get to the point where I'm sick of such a teaching like this. Actualized.org nails a lot of teachings on the head, and that's why its able to be so dogmatic. Because people get complacent and start to trust actualized.org because its teachers are TOO accurate and TOO good. So in a way its a high quality teaching. But its not right for me anymore, so now after 3-5 years, I'm finally leaving, to go find a 'boring' teacher that just wants to enjoy life, and doesn't take spirituality too seriously.

You made up this idea of a 'circumference', 'planet'. And you are using those made up ideas to lift off from the planet. But that's not the only way to lift off from a planet. You can make up a bunch of different stuff and lift off a different way. You can take a psychedelic and lift off through machine elf technology. You can channel energy and lift off that way. You can induce kundalini and kriya energy and lift off that way. Perfectly possible and many have done it before. And you know what? Scientists who revolutionise science know this. You think the theory of relativity existed before Einstein invented it? Nope. Relativity wasn't real until Einstein made it real. The universe literally invented it on the spot when he created it. Then the world changed. This is what it looks like to be conscious that 'planet', 'circumference' are made up, and to use that fact to change the world.

There was so much wisdom in this post that it even made God question whether he was actually God.

If I interpreted it correctly, Leo suggested in his latest video that the ultimate teaching is Self-Love. That's certainly a high teaching, no doubt about it, but is it the highest? We need to consider that its possible Leo hasn't completed his journey quite yet. I remember watching these 3 videos about a year or 2 ago, back when naked reality(Rali?) was around: There was also a video with an interview of naked reality/rali, but can't seem to find it. Anyway I haven't watched the above in a while but I remember the main points of the 3 videos were(these points might have been in Rali's interview): There is stuff beyond God Realization, and Buddhists have only gotten up to God Realization. Jan Esmann has accessed something called the 'blue being'. This is not Self-Love by the way, according to him its below Self-Love. So of course this is all theoretical, but its an interesting idea to put forth that God-Realization/Liberation eventually stops. And according to Leo stops at Self-Love. According to Jan Esmann (and a few others I can't remember) it seems like God-Realization/Liberation is never ending, you can keep realizing more and more facets of God forever. Like the 'blue being' whatever that is. Anyway, was curious to know how the experiences of Jan Esmann and the like integrate with Leo's experiences. Blue being: 8:16 8:06 of first video, also called blue pearl.

Because you've got a script in your head(which you're unconscious of) telling you how people should and shouldn't act. And if people act like this then they are that and if people act like that then they are this. If people make a critique that you think is stupid then they are idiots, and if people keep replying to the thread then they are attention seekers. But this is all just conditioning of your mind, conditioning you probably got from your parents, or possibly a teacher you admire. There is no fundamental, metaphysical law which proves that coming back to a thread makes someone an attention seeker. There is no law that replying to Leo's posts makes someone an attention seeker. This is all arbitrary and something you made up in your head a long long time ago, so long that you've become unconscious of the programming. I do what I feel like. I'm not trying to prove anybody anything. If I cared about what you thought, I would not come back to this forum to prove to you that I'm not an attention seeker and I'm some sort of wise man. But in reality that would just be me following some arbitrary rules that you made up - particularly the rule that non attention seekers don't keep coming onto this thread. If you're acting authentically and honestly, do you seriously think constricting your behaviour to some arbitrary rules is the way to do it? No it's not. Truly acting authentically and honestly is spontaneity, doing what you feel like. NOT following arbitrary rules, but rather following the stream of consciousness. This spontaneity may mean writing critiques, coming back to a thread, telling people what you actually think which gets you disapproval, burping in front of people, and a whole bunch of stuff you probably look at in disgust with your made up and imaginary rules you made up. When you live spontaneously, no rules apply. You may seem to be mentally masturbating, debating, arguing, being dualistic, being low conscious, etc. But in reality you're following that authentic drive, wherever it takes you. Your rules don't matter to me. And I'll break a lot of your rules. So don't expect some "can you explain that to me" answer. You simply won't get one you're looking for.

@Patrick Lynam Thank god it's Rockhampton, I was worried your poor soul was going to say Ipswich.

dubbo hahaha. Look, it's very possible to get attached to meditation and to fall in love with the practice instead of the intention to know truth. You could have this idea of what enlightenment is(which is delusion by default) and be chasing that and focusing on using meditation to get to that, going on a wrong path. You could also use meditation as a way of boosting your spiritual ego if you have one. I would also be weary of people who say they would never quit meditation. Meditation is a tool like nuclear energy. If you are scared of dropping it, chances are your practice is distracting you from integrating what's 'under' that fear, and the counter intuitive approach would be TO drop meditation and rather fully surrender and be present on what that fear is. So not saying for you to drop meditation, but wanted to give an opposite perspective to what others here are saying.

It certainly is a mirror depending on what mental state you're in, but realizing most people in life are full of shit is not uncomfortable, it's liberating. and if you don't life the phrase "most people are full of shit", because you want to view them as not real and are imaginary, then at the very least realizing what most people say, act, is actually bullshit is just as liberating.

Actually no. Spiral dynamics goes horizontally, not vertically. There are some good sides to stage blue like discipline. You wouldn't think saying a marathon runner is at the start of a race is an insult. Why are dinosaurs less cool than chickens? When it comes to the relative, evolution occurs infinitely. Creatures will continue to evolve forever. And I'm convinced Spiral dynamics goes on forever as well. It's just that people haven't gone up to turquoise yet, or they will get sick of the theory and try a different paradigm(yes spiral dynamics is just a paradigm). So there is no reason to feel superior being at the top. Because there will always be stages above. Spiral dynamic stages are largely correlated with environmental and external circumstances. People can (not necessarily jump down) go down a stage if their environment gets tough. Because lower stages are better at survival in some circumstances than higher stages. So no stage is absolutely superior to the other. But honestly, I thought maybe my critique is wrong, maybe people here aren't getting hung up on the elitist way spiral dynamics is presented. So I experimented with this hypothesis on you, and clearly you failed the test. You're just one, a small sample size, so can't really be taken seriously. Disagree with me all you want, you have every right to. But be careful about dismissing my critique because you think you aren't falling into the traps I outlined, when actually deep down you are. What you think you've embodied and what you've actually embodied can be 2 very different things. It's quite shocking when you realize that for the first time on here, how full of shit everyone really is, and how much they don't know about themselves.

@FoxFoxFox Are these past lives real? Do you actually believe them? If they are imaginary, what use are they to take them seriously?

1. What's more effective, dropping all beliefs, insights, experiences, till there's nothing left, or integrating all beliefs, insights, experiences, till its all integrated? 2. Desires for enlightenment are a double edge sword. If you believe the wrong stuff about enlightenment, you can go towards a direction of delusion and not even realise it, believing its actually enlightenment. You could also interpret your awakening experiences through the lens of the belief of this desire. But at the same time desire can be used to avoid procrastination or to overcome the ego's dislike for meditation. What's your experience with this? 3. Is truth and happiness correlated?

maybe we should exploit, take advantage of the British people, make a fortune 500 British company, in an effort to accelerate the people's resentment for corporate corruption, and have fun while doing it in the process.

Sure, but the motivations for why an American tells an Italian immigrant to go back to their country, and why a forum user tells another forum user to leave are the same. They both don't like change, or are unhappy with their belief system being criticised. Americans don't target immigrants for no good reason - this is just liberal BS. They target immigrants because they change their country, either by working for less and take jobs, because immigrants complain about Christmas(hence why its now happy holidays), changing social norms, or criticising the government for their invasion on the middle east (a lot of immigrants from the middle east do). This causes Americans to react. They don't like people changing their country. And what happens when you cause change in a little hippy commune? Same thing. What happens when you voice change in this forum? Same thing. People here are addicted to insights, chasing something imaginary, believing in outlandish beliefs, mental masturbation, excessive positivity. They don't want someone to change that or to reveal that's what happening, because just like the Americans, this way of life is making them happy and any change to that will make them miserable. Of course forum members can leave while immigrants can't. But the motivations behind forum members and Americans are the same. This was the point I was making But besides that, this idea that you shouldn't criticise any courses because you can just leave is a silly and dangerous idea. You can criticise whoever you want, and in some cases you should. In fact a whole section of this forum is dedicated to criticising things they have no need to be apart of. Lots of people on here criticise evangelicals. Should we tell them that if they don't like evangelicals then they should just not watch them? Why is this forum criticising cults like Mooji's? "If you don't like mooji then just don't watch". Why are you criticising See I think the above statements are foolish. just because its non compulsory, doesn't mean its unethical to criticise it. This forum is ok with criticising other cults, but when someone does it to them, its all "you can leave if you don't like it". Sure and you can leave Mooji, evangelicals, hillsong, rational scientists, etc. Alone aswell.

reminds me of when immigrants complain about the laws of US or Australia, and then the blue stage rednecks tell them to go back to the country they came from. When actually criticism of a country is valuable for making it better. You must be a blue stage person

Great points, especially 3 4 7 and 9. Which points did you get from Jamie Wheal? What spiritual teachers do you listen to? Whether someone likes or hates your message has nothing to do with truth. In most cases its got to do with whether their bullshit belief system resonates with what you say. After all, they use their paradigm to judge how true what you say is. So in a way, what others say is pointless. Despite this, kudos for the post.

Western Science as it is run today is predicated on materialism. These are a bunch of 'rules' which control how metaphysical phenomena is interpreted. Which in turn controls what this phenomena can and cannot do. As for a basic example, if we assume newton's laws(which his laws are predicated upon an external reality in 3D space made of atoms and molecules), then a pen cannot go through a table, because the force will repel. And if we do an experiment to see if this is true its confirmed. Here is an example of how materialism controls metaphysical phenomena. The reason why a pen cannot go through a table isn't because its a universal law, its because that's how we interpret this phenomena. If we were to look at reality from a different perspective, we could make the pen go through a wall(also called the art of the occult). But is the essence of western science really materialism? Why must the scientific method adhere to materialism? Is there any reason why we couldn't apply the scientific method to a different paradigm like phenomenology, instead of interpreting the phenomena of empirical tests as materialistic, we interpret it with a phenomenological perspective? Science evolves over time, but is this not because science and the 'ism' that it belongs to is separate? If science was tangled up with a particular 'ism' then science couldn't evolve? Maybe western science at its essence isn't tangled up with a particular 'ism'? Maybe at its essence its a process of quantity. The creation of 'cosm'. Nothing to do with a particular viewpoint(like idealism, materialism, etc). Maybe the process of western science can be applied to multiple 'isms'. Pluto thought mathematics was idealist rather than realist? Maybe the fact that this is possible is a sign that science has nothing to do with 'isms'. Maybe science is really the art of making 'qualia' out of 'quanta'(qualities from quantities). Isn't this really a much better description of the essence of science? We can make different colours(qualia) out of different quantities of red, green, blue. We can make different drugs out of different quantities of chemicals. If a shape has 4 sides its a square, 6 its a hexagon. Maybe from a phenomenological perspective, science is about mastering the art of controlling different quantities to produce different qualities or phenomena in our life. Imagine what science would be like if we used it in a way where it was 'ism' independent, we change the ism depending on how we would like to view a particular phenomena? Imagine if we stripped science of all the isms, used it purely as a process of making qualia out of quanta. What this could mean for boosting the effectiveness of our meditation, yoga, occult. Being able to use western science to control the qualia in our mind using quanta so that we have more 'no mind', induce 'trance' for boosting our meditation or so we could access different states of consciousness. Etc. This is how we could build visual stimulants, neuro feedback machines, etc that actually work. Maybe this is what it looks like when western science is used for spirituality and mysticism. Maybe with this mindset we could use science to produce technology that would enhance our spiritual development. Maybe with this mindset we can integrate western science with meditation, yoga, chakras, the occult, psychedelics, to better organise all that karma and beliefs we have about this subject so that we can more effectively use spiritual concepts for spiritual development. Maybe this is how we can use western science to 'time travel', truly enable humans to be 'breatharians', etc. Of course western science is by nature separatist/reductionist rather than holistic. Which would limit it even if we could apply different isms to it. But this is where the idea of integrating it with other holistic sciences gets interesting. Not using western science alone, but using it with eastern sciences like ayurveda, chinese traditional medicine, hinduism, etc could open new opportunities to combine the strengths of both and produce a revolution in techniques, technologies and concepts for reaching the divine. EDIT: I may be talking about mathematics more than science looking in retrospect. I'm making a meta point about the power of mathematical based sciences. Osho believe that pythagoras created the 'cosm' which is what science is at a very essential level.

It's very easy to be happy: law of attraction, psychotherapy, Escher Hick's stuff, etc. But it's not easy to be honest. And honesty and happiness are not the same. What if you're goal isn't to know the truth, but to be happy? Some people are ok with suffering and depression so long as it brings them Truth. @mandyjw what's interesting is there seems to be 2 approaches, including everything, and dropping everything.