electroBeam

Leo's gonna smash you for posting rational wiki on his forum. Just a heads up.

@Martin123 I still don't understand how your approach is different to loving all beings as if you're enlightened. They only reason why you choose 1 girl over the other for love is because of expectations. If you fully surrender and accept people for who they are, you would choose anyone. You would be totally liberated to choose anyone. When you 'end the relationship' you're allowing yourself to dare someone else. If the relationship will eventually converge to a point where the person can be anything, and you will totally accept them for who they are, then what's the point in starting a relationship? IMO you only start sexual relationships because of expectations. That's what drives them. Otherwise if you had no expectations you would just love all beings equally. There would be nothing to differentiate them. If you 'end the relationship' and be committed, you are removing your codependence from the other person. If you leave this person by following this approach, and go live your own life, you're still committed to their happiness. It just sounds awfully like a spiritual altruistic drive to love all beings unconditionally.

I have tried for many hours, to contemplate and meditate on the fact that everything that I love in a woman is already within me. While I'm aware that all of the infatuation, bliss and love is happening within the present moment, it just does not have that same level of energy you get with doing it "for real". What am I doing wrong here? How can I channel all that love I have for others into myself so that I don't need women to get all the satisfaction I want from women? How can I put the women within me? When my relationship ended with my ex girlfriend, I suddenly felt no more desire to talk to her, or to be with her. It gave/gives me no satisfaction. I only have a desire/am drawn to supporting her and caring for her in the breakup to ensure that she feels loved, cared for and is happy. But i don't want to be in a relationship with her anymore. According to your post, should i be feeling/drawn to talking to her and being best friends with her? Your post is very inspirational, and i would love to have that sort of committment to the one that Ive just been broken up with, but I have no desire to. What should i do to cultivate that sort of commitment? Can you have this sort of relationship with someone you commit to, but the other person doesn't commit to back? If the other person still imposes constraints on you?

What's the point in being in a monogamous relationship if one holds this perspective? If you hold no expectations with your girl/guy, and love them for who they are, no matter what they turn out to be, what makes them different to a beggar, Donald Trump, Hitler or your next door neighbour? You can also commit to the entire human race, and from the perspective you have, committing to 1 person over another doesn't make sense, because you hold no expectations for both. Is this just a sneaky, charismatic way of showing people how to be a Jesus, Sadhguru or Buddha?

Hi I've been dating an introverted smart girl for about 3 years now. She has said that her feelings for me has changed in the past 6 months. She doesn't see a future with me because I'm not similar enough to her. I don't enjoy playing piano, or learning new languages. Which makes me different. Because I don't like doing those things, and rather like doing spirituality(something she doesn't like much) her feelings have changed. She told me she now sees me more like a family member. She likes to cuddle and kiss me still. But she doesnt want to have sex with me anymore and wants to (in 2 years) find a boyfriend. So she basically wants to kiss(on lips too) and cuddle with no sex for next 2 years and then when she finds a boyfriend transition to a best friend sort of arrangement. I thought this was retarded so I told her let's just go our separate ways. She was a bit sad about that but preferred that to staying in the relationship. She still wants to hang out with me though because she said she loves me still and can't handle going cold turkey. But I do love her a lot and she has a lot of qualities that I think are perfect for me. I'm starting to think maybe I should try to get back with her somehow... or maybe not. Maybe this thing is well past it's due date. What does this mean? I don't understand how you can want to kiss and cuddle in bed but no sex. And how you can love me as deeply as your mum(her words) but want to break up? This is half a friend zone after 1.5 years.... What am I doing wrong? She told me she loved sex with me and thinks I'm attractive, but she's turned off from sex because she sees we have no future. And she wants to break up before we have kids because it will be a lot more intense to break up then. She did admit she's confused. What am I doing wrong? Not flirting enough? Am I too boring? I basically spend my entire week meditating, growing my psychedelics and work. Back before she went through this phase I also took her out to dinner and to parks and holidays to various places. I don't think she will leave this phase if I do nothing. So I'm wondering if there are anything else I can try. It will make me feel better to know that I tried to save the relationship before giving up on it prematurely.

No one here has an issue with the pickup techniques, they have an issue with the orientation, the way it was implied it was to be used. Leo's original post strongly implied that you use the techniques to have casual sex. People who are green strongly value deep emotional connect, above sex. They see sex as limited and they may even derive negative connotations towards it. So when you use the techniques just to have casual sex, you make your self look like an ape. Reason why people here are so for mutual consent is because they know most women are not just looking for causal sex, they are looking for long term partners. So if you're using the techniques for causal sex, then it's likely you aren't getting mutual consent. If Leo rephrased the close advice to orient it towards forming a deep, intimateconnection with a women, rather than a 1 night stand, the reaction would be different. Let's not kid ourselves here, the people who reacted like seretoninluv, Elisabeth, etc. Reacted because they deeply value intimate emotional connection, rather than 1 night stands. This is the core value difference. They might deny it and try to sat they are fine with 1 night stands, and are ok with casual sex, but they aren't. This isn't ok from a green perspective because its limiting, you're not aiming as high as you could be. You're choosing mcdonalds over a very classy restaurant. Mutual consent is important, but this reaction did not start purely from mutual consent, it started from this core value difference.

@Lynnel Well the biggest reason why our relationship didn't work is because she really loved music(was passionate about it) and I wasn't. And she couldn't talk to me or connect with me about deep, meaningful music. She was also into health, deeply passionate about it, and she couldn't explore that with me. I couldn't explore psychedelics and spirituality with her, so we grew apart. A lack of common interests makes the relationship get boring, and because the other person doesn't share an understanding and passion for your interests and values, you loose that sense of connection. Maybe you're just a very easy going person who can tolerate anyone whose healthy. After reflection, the thing that drove us apart was this. We couldn't share a life together. I could never data someone who is into football, I would resent their stupidity. Martin, that's great advice! thanks!

now you just need to eat them all at once hahaha

@Farnaby I understand your version of dominance, but the dominance expressed in most PUA and by whoyouare is the macho type of dominance. Its a type of controlling dominance, where you need to get the other person to do what you want. Logistics, leading, isolation, it's all by definition manipulating a woman to do what you want. Some girls like this, but it's unhealthy because the woman is suppressed and not able to express her freedom, desires and views. Sometimes it is healthy, for example when you're having sex. But apart from sex I don't find it healthy to be controlling. Heck even in sex it's better to be mutual. I guess I just don't see controlling as a valuable strategy in general.

I actually don't get any fuzziness, lack of concentration, lack of creativity after sex. I'm surprised others on here do, so much that Karezza was invented. At the most I don't feel like having sex again, and I might experience sleepiness if it's at night time. I wonder if I'm just not sensitive enough to it, or if the whole thing is a placebo.

One interesting problem with this paradigm is it assumes women are rational. Just like the classical vs behavioural economics problem, if you assume women leave if their survival needs are not met, and they stay if it is, then you can fall into the trap of thinking that you just need to provide survival needs and she will stay with you. That's not the case in real life. Women get turned on or off by a lot of irrational stuff. Chasing someone whose playing hard to get, chasing guys who mistreat them, making up a story in their head that the next guy is so much better for them than this one(when the next guy is a PUA) are all irrational and go against survival. There are countless cases of this, and values mis match is one of them.

So what was the problem then? What you think if you find a guy who has amazing sex, supports you financially, takes you out to dinner and holidays, that you will 100% be happy? What if this guy loves football, thinks spirituality is delusional, and loves making money and hates gays? That doesn't matter so long as he provides your survival needs?

Well that's no quite true because I wrote in my original post that I told her that I'm not touching her after the breakup. Well you might be right, maybe all I need to do is act more confident and assertive in the relationship and magically everything will resolve... but I don't see how that solves everything. Well I'm being as dominant as I possibly can now(I've basically told her im not touching her, and I'm free to talk and support her with the breakup verbally over the phone to help her get over it, but I'm going to focus my life on my career and social network rather than the stuff she wants me to do). This hasn't changed anything by the way. Shes a bit sad about me cutting things off further, but deep down she thinks its the best strategy. You might say "you're not being dominant enough because you're still supporting her - be a macho asshole and cut her off completely, then she will respect you more" but I know that's not going to happen, if anything that's just going to make her hurt, feel reject and angry. I really dont believe you should be an asshole for the sake of machoness. And I don't want to do it for the sake of her future relationships as Well. She doesn't deserve to be hurt. I don't see how thinking this way is a dominant problem. Reminds me of business people who tell me that only assholes make lots of money in business because business is cut throat - yet they forget about social impact companies that are successful.

Do you need to put significant time and money into the logistics of having a deep and meaningful conversation with your mum? When you're out with your best friends from childhood, do you need to isolate them to get their attention and talk about meaningful stuff that they are engaged with? Do you need to lead your children to have a meaningful conversation with them? Why can't you try to connect with women with the same level of depth of family and best friends, instead of acting like an ape? When you cold approach, actually do it out of divine love and respect for the You that you are. Do it with a drive to seriously want to see her grow, where a relationship with her is a means to help her grow. Do it with helping her heal, helping her get better. I've done cold approaches and this mindset is always more successful then trying to replicate the PUA shit you read on this forum and the internet. Life isn't about sex, and it's not about objectifying women(which you definitely are doing). You're not going to be fulfilled just trying to have sex with women. You're going to be fulfilled by having very deep, meaningful relationships with women. And sex is 1000x better when you have it with someone you deeply love, rather than some stranger you just picked because of her large breasts. Have some unconditional Love(capital L) for the girls you're trying to connect with. That's what girls appreciate(well the good ones at least, the shit ones are too busy being gold diggers or trying to find a guy to hide their social status insecurities)

@whoareyou actually our relationship split partially because I was too dominant: I am in love with my career, so much that on occasions I would neglect her. I knew exactly what I wanted: to be a world class leader in in my company's area of expertise. And that scared her, because she saw that for the rest of my life I will be working minimum of 60 hours a week, even though I would be extremely successful. Also she's the type that just wants to retire on an island. I'm not like that, I want to be Elon Musk. She also had to rearrange her stuff on my schedule because I was the busy one, with a strong purpose in life. I knew exactly the life I wanted, and tried to get her to follow it. She got sick of this about 1 year into our relationship. She wanted things to be on her terms. We fought a lot about it. I eventually decided to reduce my dominance to give her more freedom. This she deeply appreciated. Being dominant is just part of the equation, and being too dominant is not a good thing: you're just being an asshole. A relationship is a team sport and you need to care for the other person's feelings, wants and their growth. Life isn't all about you, and what makes a man truly attractive is how much he praises her/compliments her, makes her feel good about herself, supports her woman's growth, cares for her, ensures her needs are met, shows her how to live a better life, and helps her with her problems, while maintaining their own life, purpose and integrity. The problem with our relationship was a values mis match, had nothing to do with this macho PUA crap of dominance or better sex.

+1 man! This paradigm of getting into women's panties is limited. You're not gonna get satisfaction though that. Satisfaction comes from very deep, meaningful personal experiences with people, not just fucking like an ape at anything that moves. How is that fulfilling? Bunch of sexual moves with someone you don't know well.

@Etherial Cat yes exactly right. Great sex may help you keep her for 2 years, but its not a long term strategy. You need much more than sex. Unfortunately we are just too different after reflection, and I see now why she wants to break up. @remember She actually wants to live in my city for the rest of her life. I don't, I want to move to the United States (because I'm the founder of a startup which is going really well). We've had fights about that since the beginning. I don't think I can compromise my life any more to suit her. I already did a lot to suit her. Unfortunately I'm maxed out.

She has friends here who really like her, but she doesn't like them back. She's too picky and judgmental, so she doesn't call them best friends, just good friends or friends with problems. She is originally from Latin America and has over 300 friends there and 4 super best friends that she dearly loves and they dearly love her. She immigrated to my country. So she relies on me as the crutch for her missing her Latin American friends. She hasn't immigrated to my country well. She doesn't like my culture. I didn't even know my country had a culture.

@Preety_India Yes! You're right. I told her im not kissing you on the lips because we broke up. She said 'relationship' is just a label, you don't need kissing on the lips to be only part of a relationship. In a way, that's a very intelligent, relativistic analysis on the word relationship. In another way that's a very sneaky way of getting me to do what she wants. You're right in everything you say. @Harikrishnan You're right about only you can love yourself, but I'm not sure if cutting her off is the most Buddha way of doing it. I would imagine a Buddha will support her growth externally, giving her compassion and help while not having anything to do with her in terms of intimacy, and maintaining great distance. I don't feel it in my gut to cut her off externally. I feel like that's an ego mechanism to stop myself from getting hurt. A subtle way of giving her revenge by making her suffer from what she's done. I really think i would regret that. But being kind to her and supporting her while keeping a very professional distance from her may be the better way. I really dont feel like doing it. I feel like saying fuck her for everything she's done, I feel like calling her dysfunctional, calling myself stupid for entering the relationship - but see this is all ego defence mechanisms. I have to go beyond that. @Leo Gura I use to think all you needed was great sex too, and we had that for 2 years. But she wants more than sex, she wants a deep connection with me. For women like her, how hot you are is also who you are, not just what you look like or do in bed, and I don't look that good: I'm someone who believes in backwards woo woo spiritual bullshit like actualized.org and sadhguru, and I spend all my time doing that instead of doing very admirable, cool things like playing piano, learning karate, getting good at tennis. This is how she thinks, she has passive aggressively hinted this to me multiple times especially in the past 6 months. it's not attractive to have very little skills, for her. She knows 6 languages, plays 3 instruments and is continually learning. Because she doesnt have access to spirituality she doesnt see what i do. She thinks I'm a druggie because I enjoy watering my cactus and shrooms. Like I look terrible to her. Im also a loner which makes me look like an anti social nerd. This stuff didnt bother her at the beginning because unlike her previous boyfriends i was calm, cool, wise, open minded, very interesting alternative thinker with wildly interesting and deeply complex views. The more i showed her who i really am, all of the weird tantric stuff, weird Leo Gura videos, weird adyshanti videos, she has become alienated. She has told me multiple times that she feels insecure that I'm very Buddha like and am aiming to rid myself of all external sources of happiness. Im also very passionate about my career, and she believes that Im too passionate about it. Her dream is to have a good life: work 3 days a week, enjoy the beach, be very healthy and just live a good life. Me on the other hand, Ive sacrified all of my savings for my career, constantly going to different countries, talking to villagers in india, pakistan, malaysia, going to the US and talking to investors, I believe the world needs me to fulfull my life purpose for this world to be a better place. She sees this as a threat to the laid back relaxed life she wants. This is why she doesn't want sex with me. When she saw who I truly was(takes 2 years to find it) she realised I'm nothing like what she thought. Also her views of what shes wanted in a man has changed overtime which has complicated things. @Elisabeth Thanks Elisabeth for your response, you seem to know my girlfriend very well. That is what I think is going on with her. I can handle talking to her and maybe seeing her physically, but not touching her. That's the limit. I am autistic but she definitely is not. She's the opposite has extremely good social and emotional intelligence. But Im talking to her purely out of compassion, because I care about her relieving suffering. The more I analyse the situation, read about sexual and relationship psychology, and you guy's responses, the more I can see that this relationship is very dysfunctional. I didnt even realise, thought I was in one of the most healthy relationships on the planet. Thought she was the best girlfriend you could ever ask for. In some ways she is, but the dysfunction makes sticking with her a problem.

Yeah good idea, if she gets too upset with me leaving her cold turkey I'll suggest to her that we can go to counselling. That way I'm not being an asshole and unfair on myself.

Well I am, and I do think the effort is worth it. It just seems like she has 200% decided the romantic part is over, and only the best friend part can remain. And these dates are a way for her to hang out with a best friend(because she doesn't have any best friends beside me). But I'm interested in a romantic relationship not a friendship. That's all. hahahahahaha you really think women are that transparent? Asking her that will yield a quantum mechanics puzzle that would take me decades to solve. Actually I did ask that. Why dates if it's over? She said because she still loved me and it's tough to leave me and anything can happen in the future. But she said no matter what happens I will always be her best friend and family. Then she said her father abandoned her as a child and she has trauma over that. Her previous boyfriend after 1.5 years just left out of the blue, and she suffered a lot from that and doesn't want it to end like that for us. She also said she doesn't see why breaking up has to be so horrible and why we still can't cuddle and kiss after breakup........ Too confusing for my autistic brain. Just feel like I'm being played.

@Elisabeth @DrewNows Yes good insights thanks. Definitely think this is the best option. Yeah but you love your family. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say I feel like we are strangers? About a year ago I reduced my workload to spend more time with her. For the past 6 months she's been regecting dates and holidays that I offered her because she told me she was trying to get me to break up with her. Now that we've broken up she wants to go on dates(or something whatever it is) to restaurants and go on a holiday with me. I may do 2 dates and a holiday but will cut it off after that. Definitely just breaking up with her, and doing my own thing is the best way I think.

@Preety_India Yes those definitely are red flags. Was wondering if it could be reversed but I think you're right. Its over and have to find someone else. @Etherial Cat Yes I think you nailed it on the head. She is the sort of person who likes building up skills like languages and piano. And she doesn't feel ok with me not having those interests because she cant share her life with me. On the other hand I meditate and a bunch of other stuff and I can't share that with her. I'm ok with that though because spirituality is so esoteric that you can't share it with anyone if you don't want to be alienated. But yeah I just don't see it as a valuable use of time to put so much time into building up skills which are useless, especially when that time can be spent on talking to DMT machine elves. We do have common interests: both value health and wellbeing, hard work ethic, pushing yourself and growing(albeit in different ways), being humble, respectful, being kind to each other. We have a good system where she does some things and I do others and we work together to save time to get all the choirs done. We also do enjoy watching movies together and going on holidays and hikes together. And our sex life is fine. It was really just the above which was the problem. And I didnt see how it was such a huge problem in the scope of things but it must be. I agree with you that I'm not seeing all the bad, just the good, and that is very biased.

@Kshantivadin sure. She probably is dissatisfied because I'm not her ideal male(someone who plays pianos and learns languages and skills) but at the same time deeply attached to me and loves me. But I still don't get the loves me as a family part. I have autism and I've read that book.

Are you struggling to break up from a 2, 3, 5 or more year relationship? A relationship where you deeply love each other, almost like family? Do you deep down know that it's the right thing to do, but are afraid of loosing her/him? Are you being dumped by your girlfriend/boyfriend and struggling? Loving relationships are a special case of break up, because the 2 individuals are co depended on each other for love and support. This makes breakups extremely challenging. When we loose him/her, we mourn loosing all of the special, loving, important memories we had with each other. We mourn the first time we kissed, the first time we admitted our love for each other. The room we both slept in, all of the love making we had - how those moments were so special, unique and critical for living a happy life. Now it's all gone. She/he is gone. Which means all those memories, special moments, things we once hold dearly, are now all just a story. A dead story that will forever be buried in the back of our minds, never to be actualized ever again. We look at our room, we mourn over just 1 person sleeping in it - what's left is just a dead memory of the 2 of you, having the most meaningful experiences of your lives. You mourn over the leaves fluttering down from that cute tree you both proposed under - now just a dead memory of how wonderful your life was before the breakup. You mourn over that suitcase you both went travelling with - to Fiji, Hawaii, a funky town in Japan because only the 2 of you had a cute, weird fetish for Japanese culture, something that makes you guys made for each other. Now that suitcase is just a dead memory, of what you had but now don't. Gosh, if only you didn't decide to date this person in the first place or decide to date at all. Let's rewind back to why you even started dating. On the surface, you were just innocently looking for love. Or you were looking to share an experience with someone, or something like that. But why was that even important? To say it bluntly, it may have been because you didn't love yourself enough, so instead of doing the spiritual practices to love yourself more, you instead tried to obtain self love quickly by getting someone else to love you for you. And now for the past 5 or so years, your self love, has been relied upon and supplied by your girlfriend/boyfriend. What you mourn, is not loosing her. It's mourning the loss of loving yourself. Your entire worldview was constructed with the assumption that this woman or man would give you that love, and so you put nothing in place incase that relied up stream of love ever left you. Now when you see that cute tree where both of you confessed your love for each other, you seem to be reminded that you've lost the love of your life, but actually you've lost loving yourself. You no longer love yourself, because you left it all up to that girl under the tree going "I confess, you're the most beautiful human I've ever met, I want to be with you for the rest of my life". Now you see that bed you 2 made love with in, and it seems you're reminded that you have lost the love of your life, but what you've actually lost is all of the moments she looked at you with that passion in her eyes that you're the greatest fuckboy on the planet. When she needed you to hug her purely because she loves it - and you appreciate that dearly, knowingly or not. And what makes it worse is you picked her/him because she represents your ideal self - godly attractive, deeply loving, Einstein level of intelligence, loves the same things as you, but better. Your love in a sense is being supplied by your ideal self(or at least parts of it if you still admire and love her). You've been relying on him/her for supplying love for way too long. You need to take ownership of your self love. Write down all of the things you miss about him/her. What did he/she do to make you feel loved? Compliments? Made you food? took you on holidays? Gave you amazing sex? Start doing all those things to yourself, compliment yourself, make yourself delicious food to express your self love. Give yourseld holidays because you love yourself so much. Care for yourself, remind your self that you are the thing that you love the most. Accept your self more, appreciate yourself. Realize that the thing you're looking for isn't out there somewhere, your ideal self isn't with in a woman, it's within yourself - if you care to nurture yourself and grow your self to who you want to be. To remind yourself of this, say this for 15 minutes every day: "There is no one who loves me more than myself." "I don't need my ex to love me, because I love myself too much."