who chit

Concentration practices,breathing methods,Yogic methods,contemplation,self inquiry,witnessing (i.e.,"passive observation"),etc.,have been around for thousands and thousands of years. Each have their merit,as has been proven by those who created them and those who have engaged in them. Gautama (Buddha) used inquiry neti neti, vipassana, mindfulness,witnessing,contemplation. Gautama's desire to end suffering was his motivation,not enlightenment. But through the ages,even prior to his time,"spiritual methods" to realize/attain God/Brahman/the Absolute/Nirvana/Satori etc., also just happened to end, and/or relieve, psychological suffering on the way to God/Nirvana etc,. Gautama felt the spiritual and metaphysical implications of these methods were only a distraction,and were not relevant to his life mission to end suffering. He used the methods,but threw out the associated spiritual connotations,and got himself a method to end suffering for the regular Joe Dirte Buddha, who needn't become a monk to end his suffering. Know wonder he was a popular dude. What do 99.999% of people want most? "Happiness" which translates as freedom from suffering. Those strictly in the "enlightenment game" for God/Brahman/Nirvana, are fewer than those looking for something that will make them "happy" or end their suffering. Why is mindfulness,meditation the most popular,talked about,written about (at least in the West), method of meditation among the many others? Because they can relieve at least some of their suffering and not need to be associated with anything "spiritual" or metaphysical to do it. They can still be an atheist, a christian, a self righteous douche-bag, racist, scientist etc., and if they choose,have a verifiable "non-spiritual/non-religious"*cough,cough*, method to ease their suffering. The "passive observation"(also called "witnessing") of thought Jack,faceless,robdl and a few others talk about as "not being a method", is totally a method , and nothing new. It's been a part of spiritual practices for thousands of years. Why would,or does one, passively engage /observe/witness psychological movement/fear/ thought"? Because it is or was, having an undesired affect on their life,that causes at least some suffering. Why did,and still do,hoards of people" flock to Krishnamurti,Osho,Mooji,Tolle,Sadhguru,Spira etc., etc.,. ? Many to realize or find God,Truth,yada yada,etc.,etc.,.. but I would say many more do it because of suffering. And thousands of years have verified the usefulness of "spiritual methods" to help end suffering. Those same methods that were developed to assist Realization. Will spiritual methods/practices alone, bring you to Truth? For many they have. They are a proven,verified,useful tool, to assist the seeker. They would not be around today,and practiced by millions, if they were useless.

You are never not experiencing yourself. What that is,is that which can't be described. You never experience anything called "other".

Is the one that is seeking already here?

It's always a mystery

You, awareness, alone. You've heard of the "cave of the heart". The "heart" or 'cave of the heart" is not a location. It is the "placeless place." To think of it would be, prior to the big bang. The "nothing",prior to everything. What Nisgardatta called "the empty space that is our inner void". There is no experiencing. The placeless place, is prior to all manifested experience. You, awareness ,alone,in yourself. That's the best I can describe it. For me thus far,it comes and go's. It doesn't happen every night. It's also happened when just going for a nap. There's a drifting away only to find you're still fully aware and never fell asleep. But you're no longer in any located place.

What is the you, that is experiencing everything! Not just thoughts.

A moving video that touches the heart.

Assigning a meaning to existence is putting a limit on the unlimited. The negative reaction is ego assigning another limit to continue surviving. Instead of assigning a meaning,let reality reveal itself to you.Meaninglessness is the old construct falling away to allow openness and clarity to a new way of "seeing" / perceiving. Meaninglessness,in the broader sense is 'I thought I knew",but now realize that "I didn't really know". Ego doesn't like "not knowing". But,"I don't know", allows for a new possibility to arise. As Leo suggested, Let go, and let the mystery unfold/reveal itself to you. Eventually,this is what it will come to anyway. The more resistance there is,the tougher it will be. This is a continuous unfolding,which also calls for a continuous surrendering or "allowing" for what is to be as it is.

If autolysis is to find "what I am",then why not go directly to that? Do you exist?

If the mind creates the thought of a pink elephant,do you become a pink elephant? Or do you realise/see it's just a thought of a pink elephant and that you are not that thought? What is it that realizes a thought is just a thought? If the mind creates the thought of a pink elephant,and you believe you are the created thought,you experience being the belief/thought that "I'm a pink elephant". Your belief or non belief makes it so. The thought "I am the mind" ,or ,"I am not the mind" creates both the experiencer "I", and the experience of "am" or "am not" the mind. This is the false division. The thought of an "I" that experiences itself as separate from the thought is the delusion/illusion. Thought and the 'I" that experiences it, are created simultaneously together. The "I-thought" is a phantom , a non-real,non-entity illusion,giving the appearance of being existent or "real". What is "You", is prior to thought.

The ego is what is seeking,and the ego seeks "flashy things" (bait), in which it can aquire. The guru knows the workings of the ego and uses it's seeking,desirous nature to reel it in. Once the ego is "enamored" with the flashy things it thinks it will acquire,the guru then uses it to lead to it's own demise.

Your insights are valued. If you noticed the first two words of my post ("I agree"),there was not an attempt to argue a point. Only a further clarification of my previous post on awareness,which you called "too thought laden". Yet here you post: Which is what my previous post was attempting to do. I agree .

Self inquiry is a "practice" regardless of those who believe it isn't. In the yoga tradition it is only one of six ways to liberation/truth. There's Jnana yoga (self inquiry),Bhakti yoga,Kriya/Pranayama yoga,Karma yoga,Raja yoga and Hatha yoga. The integration/use of all 6 would be Raja yoga. Instead of just sticking to one,there is the use/incorporation of all 6. Patanjali's Yoga sutras go into this. Aside from that, practices such as meditation,kriya etc., are for developing a deep inner silence which gives rise in many traditions to what is known as the witness. Inquiring within the inner silence is known as relational self inquiry. Inquiring with a chaotic or busy mind would be non-relational inquiry,which would defeat the real usefulness and power of self inquiry. So to answer the question, practices that silence the mind, plus inquiry, would be the way to go,imho.

I agree. But is there not the awareness that "seeing is seeing". If one closes their eyes,there is awareness of "not seeing". Open them again,there is awareness of seeing. Awareness itself does not "see or not see". There's only the awareness of seeing,hearing ,tasting,etc., or , the not seeing, not hearing, not tasting etc.. No doer. The dream or illusion is that there's a doer.

The question of free will comes from the conditioned mind that does not know that what is essentially you is already free. The words "free will" come from a fundamental desire of a wanting to be free, or "the will to be free". The conditioned, desires "the will to be free", from the conditioning that has been imposed. The conditioned, are unaware of their already free and unconditioned nature,which can never be conditioned. If they come in touch with or realize their innate,unconditioned and already free "self",the question of "do I have free will", will be dropped. The bondage of the conditioned mind,is what keeps them longing for freedom. What is free, is boundlessly free.

@yawning_

Only a thing can be experienced. A thought,sensation,perception. But,who/what experiences it? Can nothing..no-thing,be experienced? In seeing some-thing/object,does one experience seeing some-thing? Or, is there only the awareness/knowing of seeing? Does one experience a thought,sensation,perception or is there only the awareness/knowing of it? If one is identified with, or as, body-mind-me,they will directly experience being thoughts,sensations and perceptions. The isness that is aware/knowing,does not directly experience such. The formless, does not directly experience, form. If the body is "mine"/"me",only the "thing/form" (i.e.,body-mind-me), experiences the "things"/objects. Thoughts sensations perceptions. That which is no-thing,is only aware/knowing of, the "thing/form" that is experiencing a 'thing". Which = form experiencing form. Thing, experiencing a thing. In the absence of "things/objects" (i.e.,"every-thing")... only no-thing/emptiness.. is. Every-thing, comes from no-thing/emptiness,and returns to no-thing/emptiness. Therefore every-thing is no-thing(emptiness). No-thing/emptiness, is everything. Only awareness,which is not a thing, i.e,.empty of thingness, is.

Ramana stated,and something that's not often pointed out,is that inquiry is good for those who are "ripe" for it. And I fully agree with this. It takes a certain level of aptitude or inner development for it to be useful. Otherwise,without some sort of guidance, it can create a whole mess of confusion for an "unripe" seeker.

Haa. I fully agree.

If there is "no positing of some substantial self or soul" then what is reborn or not reborn. "Rebirth, friend, is painful; non-rebirth is pleasant".AN 10.13: And also here which implies both a "self" or soul that is reborn to an "eternal abode": he is due to be reborn [in the Pure Abodes], there to be totally unbound, never again to return from that world. AN 9.36 Jhana Sutta

@Solace Well said. "Silence is the language of God, all else is poor translation." Rumi

Just drop in to see what condition your condition is in .

Great thread. Great contributions.

One of their best songs,imo. I haven't seen this particular video,but it beautifully captures the sentiment of the song. Thanks for posting.