robdl

Indeed. Because the action of escaping the problem is the problem itself in action. Thought-self invoking a problem (i.e. thought) then thought-self attempting to escape it. Thought-self perpetuating thought-self perpetuating thought-self. Cause is effect is cause.

You can conceptualize it with water/droplets but avoid the mind trap that this kind of concept is the actual (whole) insight. Thought-self loves concepts --- even concepts about nonduality and transcending thought/self --- and will accumulate them, but this is not insight, which is non-verbal/non-conceptual. It may only be expressed verbally/conceptually after the insight, as the insight is expressed through thought for the purposes of communication. Thought distinguishes, differentiates, separates, identifies, classifies, labels, groups, categories --- that is its nature. To use language (which is dualistic/thought) to communicate this stuff will inherently chop up everything into differences --- fear, desire, time, belief, knowledge, self, thought, etc. Knowledge is thought, and to attach to knowledge is thought seeking security in thought (this can also be considered as movement-from-what-is); the movement of thought-self. Belief is thought, and to attach to belief is thought seeking security in thought (this can also be considered as movement-from-what-is); the movement of thought-self. This process of thought-self and how it is always identifying, seeking security, attaching, clinging, moving in fear, moving from what-is. These are all different concepts/words expressed in dualistic language for the one process.

mushrooms - typically 6 g; 5meo - 17 mg

When I see someone carrying 4-5 spiritual methods/techniques with them simultaneously, red flags go off. There's sort of a "I'm not sure what to do so I'll do everything" quality to it, a sort of bet hedging --- which hints at doubt/fear/confusion. Also a quality of extreme effort/volition, which suggests a lack of understanding as to what the nature of seeking/volition is in itself. And where doubt/fear/confusion/seeking/striving are in movement, it can be assured ego is in movement. And naturally, ego can't kill ego, in spite of the fact it "thinks" it can/will. This is not to demean or condemn anyone. These thought-traps have been seen firsthand in myself and I'm just pointing to them. For someone to expose a thought-trap for themselves I take great joy in. Ultimate truth/love in communication. We are in this together.

I wasn't necessarily referring to whether or not you'd be using them again. I'm talking about attachment to the memory, experience. The attachment to the memory/experience fuels the ego/thought. Where the mind is recalling the experience, cherishing it, it's a movement of thought-self-ego in action. The experience recall invokes the false 'I'-self.

Talking about golf may actually be more profound than labeling celebrities with imaginary colours. At least in golf you have to empty your mind/be in the moment to execute a stroke.

Haha - cool. Glad it's clicking . You're on your way, Charlotte. We're walking this together.

What is fear/seeking security? Is it not escape/movement from what-is? What is desire? Is it not seeking/movement from what-is? Seeking and escaping are one and the same. To seek is to escape and to escape is to seek. Fear is flavoured by desire and desire is flavoured by fear. Movement from what-is. Thought/self is a movement from what is; a perpetual movement of security seeking. Fear and desire are one and the same movement of thought/self. ^^This isn't a concept for thought-self to toy with. There must be whole insight into it all.

Just observe any sense of lack in yourself (in terms of nondual knowledge) and the compulsion/seeking to acquire more. Don't get sucked into it. Just passive, choiceless observation. A whole insight may arise in that it will be seen that it is just thought-self seeking security in its own movement; seeking security in knowledge (i.e. thought) to self-perpetuate. This is what is meant by "whole" insight: thought/self/fear/knowledge all seen as one and the same movement. It will astonish. Thought-self will read the above and habitually make knowledge/thought/concept out of it -- to perpetuate its movement -- and say "OK, I understand this now," which is another subtle trap. The above is just a pointer. The insight is direct and with you.

As @Faceless pointed to, just to understand thought-self -- observe the whole movement of it. Where Leo has pointed to this self-understanding/self-observation, that is of significance. Anything other than that may merely just be spiritual entertainment.

Thought-self tells itself that if it acquires a bit more non-dual knowledge, then it'll figure everything out. Of course what thought-self is doing here is to to invite time/thought to postpone the whole thing, allowing thought-self to remain in perpetuity. @Charlotte

The "mustn't we?" can be a thought-self movement. A movement of conclusion/belief (which is a movement of fear) that accumulating some non-dual concepts is a necessity. There is a compulsion to want to understand non-dual thoughts/concepts, via thought, because it's in thought's nature to seek security in its own movement. Thought seeking thought. Thought/self seeking security in knowledge. Thought/self is a self-perpetual movement. If there's one thing you must understand, it's to observe the tendency in one's self to seek after knowledge; this movement of insecurity/fear; this movement of thought perpetuating itself.

Not saying this is the case for you, but thought-self has a compulsion to seek non-dualistic concepts (i.e. thought-content) --- to perpetuate its own movement. Thought-self seeking security/identification in thought-content. This can be a subtle ego trap. One we all face. Thought-self doesn't care about the nature of the thought-content so long as the thought-content fuels its perpetual movement. The thought-content can be non-dual concepts or it can be buying a new car. Doesn't matter, if the means serve the ends (i.e. the perpetuation of thought/self). This becomes apparent when one's non-dual knowledge is attacked or questioned, because the attack on the knowledge is an attack on thought/self itself -- due to thought's identification/attachment with the knowledge. Just like mocking someone's new car

Do we seek enlightenment/follow a drive for enlightenment, or do we go into the understanding of this propensity in us to "seek"; this propensity for "drive"? Why is ego/thought always seeking/escaping from what-is? Whether this seeking is for fame, fortune, or enlightenment --- all "seeking." Understand the movement of seeking/seeker. It needs to be seen as fact that this seeking is a movement of fear/insecurity. The insecure nature of the movement of thought, always in a state of seeking security. We identify with the compulsion to seek (manifesting in thought movement as being a "seeker") but one instead should observe the fact of identification processes/movement of thought first.

Thought/self loves to distinguish, measure, categorize, classify, label, group, conceptualize. Thought/intellect fuel. Thought/self seeks security in the concept/knowledge as it perpetuates thought/self itself, as the concept/knowledge is of thought, too. So it is thought seeking thought; thought feeding on thought. Seeking security only breeds insecurity. Fear breeds fear. Thought/self breeds thought/self. 3 ways to describe one and the same movement.

Thought-self can seek security in its own movement by invoking the memory of the psychedelic experience, i.e. thought perpetuating thought. People need to be wary of this mind trap. People talking about their psychedelic experiences is in principle not any different than talking about their prior vacation to Cancun, in the sense of the movement of thought-self using time/memory for perpetuation. Psychedelics show the possibility/glimpse. Don't get attached to what happened. With attachment, psychedelics become a hindrance, not a help. Observe the tendency in one's self to invoke the past/memory compulsively.

? Yup. If there is still seeking in spite of seeing there is no seeker, then “there is no seeker” was not a holistic insight, fact, but just a concept/memory/idea/form of knowledge (all movement of thought/past/time/self). Thought has sought security in an idea and then further movement of seeking/fear has been perpetuated, because seeking security only breeds insecurity; Fear breeding fear; ego perpetuation.

Yes. Seen as a fact that it’s akin to trying to dig yourself out of a hole. The very solution is the cause/problem!

Thought-self only ever thinks it’s going to end thought. It always finds a way of putting it off into the future. “It takes a lot of time and effort. Maybe 20 years from now”, etc. - Hahaha Thought projects time because thought is time. Thought perpetuating thought, as a movement of fear/security seeking. There is holistic insight into this.

Thought-self is so subtle, sneaky, and self-deceptive that it will even use accumulated so-called non-dual knowledge to perpetuate its own movement. Thought-self will use anything and everything as fuel for its perpetuation, even notions/ideas/knowledge/scriptures of killing thought-self.

Indeed - holistic insight. The intellect/thought-self learns by gradual accumulation of knowledge but holistic insight is not bound by thought/time/self.

If the knowledge is a perpetuation of thought-self then it is self-deception. Thought-self seeking security in its own movement through knowledge/the past/time.

The Kindergarten analogy can be wrongfully taken as time/gradualness and setting out for the accumulation of knowledge/experience over time. A kindergartener may be better off than a PhD in that regard ? zen mind, beginner’s mind

It’s so sneaky and so subtle, and can be explained/explored in so many ways, it becomes useful to refine what we’re talking about through continued communication. Because the significance of it is so immense.

Thought/fear seeks security in knowledge (movement of fear-thought) then thought/self identifies with the knowledge (movement of I-thought). But this is all thought seeking its own movement. Self-feeding loop indeed. fear, self, time, and thought are one and the same. This is the insight that is whole.