robdl

There is whole insight into movement of thought-self, which is in a perpetual state of seeking security in its own movement. Whether this be through seeking security in belief, knowledge, idea, etc. To see this whole movement of thought and its nature is fact.

There are beliefs that are a reaction out of overt fear. To fear death, to fear the randomness/chaos of the world, therefore to believe in God, etc. But there are beliefs that are a reaction out of more subtle fear -- this "security seeking" quality. To believe in a particular political ideology -- liberalism, communism, etc. -- for example. To have beliefs about the type of person one is, and beliefs about others. To have social beliefs, and so on. Beliefs are made out of knowledge/the known, and thought seeks security in the known. Thought seeking security in thought; in its own movement. Beliefs are just one manifestation of that mechanism of thought-self perpetuating.

Ever notice that thought-self only cares about thought content, and not the whole process of the movement of thought-self? It's total observation that sees the whole process for what it is, and thought-self only perpetuates through concern/identification with the content. Naturally, a self-perpetuating thought loop is only concerned with its own content and it can't see wholly that it is a loop (loop being just an approximate analogy here). Whenever there's concern with the specific content of thought/sensation, one can be pretty well-assured that it is thought-self in operation.

to see any reaction to thought can manifest physically as a sick feeling, or also as a pleasurable feeling. Then one can develop a kind of equanimity to the sensations, without becoming concerned/identified with what's happening, whether nice feeling or bad feeling. To be passive/non-reactive to the sensations, "good" or "bad" (as thought-self reactively labels them). Then total observation into the interplay of thought/sensation will be seen for simply the movement of thought-self, without investment/attachment in any of the specific thought-sensation content.

Yeah, thought-self with its habitual tendency to want to figure out/to know; to create a problem and then go about trying to answer/solve it --- therefore self-perpetuating.

The sick feeling arises, then thought-self reactively seeks security in the knowledge/understanding of the nature of the feeling. Thought perpetuating thought/fear. Observe this knowledge-seeking reaction.

I should say, it may not even necessarily be concern/worry (overt fear-thought) over what the sick physical feeling is, but thought-self wanting knowledge about it, which is a more subtle form of fear-thought. The seeking of security in the knowledge. This may be more applicable to you. Thought-self will love to get the meaning/significance/understanding/knowledge (i.e. all thought-self) of the various aspects of the thought-content that is arising, to self-perpetuate. If thought-self can't use overt fear-thought to self-perpetuate, it will elicit the seeking of knowledge, which can be a lot more subtle. A subtle thought trap indeed.

Thought-self will elicit the thought-story, "Okay, most of the other thought-content that is arising I can meditate through, but this physical effect could be serious. What does it mean?" See the subtle sneakiness of the movement?

Yeah. Be mindful that thought-self can try to perpetuate through creating concern/worry (i.e. fear/thought) over physical effects that are taking place. This is to be observed as well.

That's right -- the movement of thought-self seeks security in its movement by eliciting thoughts/emotions, especially ones with strong attachment/identification behind them such as anger, sadness, etc. Where these emotions are being perpetuated, so is thought/self. Just continue to observe the tendency of thought-self to elicit these emotions to maintain the sense of self and you'll understand that it's just a self-perpetuating thought-self loop. Then you may get insight into the whole movement of thought-self, rather than being trapped in the loop, in identification with the emotion-thought content that is arising. Passive, choiceless attention into the whole process. The movement of thought-self doesn't care about whatever the thought-content is, as long as it helps perpetuate the movement. It can be strong negative emotions, or happy memories. It's not the thought-content that matters, it's the whole nature of the movement of thought-self itself.

Those living in the cave have made a lot of conclusions, assumptions, beliefs about the cave -- they've taken the cave for granted. They've been handed a lot of knowledge about the cave through others who have lived in or are living in it; and they've clung to that knowledge. They may take certain gratifications of living in the cave or seek security in various aspects of cave living. They have also been told about the world outside the cave, and seek to get out of the cave, but this seeking to get outside the cave so far has not helped, as the seeking has only really just been a pacifier/distraction. So we start to point out the network of these pieces of knowledge, assumptions, conclusions, desires, seeking, etc. An observation of the cave that is not conditioned, free of the past, may consequently unfold. Whole insight.

By not explaining the light, but by getting them to understand the nature of the cave in which they occupy -- to see the cave for what it is, purely. For to explain the light, it will inevitably be viewed through their cave lens. They have not looked closely enough at the cave that they're occupying.

Some of the pitfalls of communication through duality/thought can be avoided by: -expressing certain things in a myriad of ways but then frequently pointing out that they're different dualistic expressions for one and the same thing. When we express it a bunch of different ways but fail to mention it's actually one and the same thing, then it may only fuel thought-self/confusion in another. -incessantly pointing out that whatever is communicated is just a pointing. Don't mistake understanding/agreeing with the content that is being given for the direct insight itself, which is not of thought, but directly seeing the whole movement of thought-self itself. Thought-self compulsively takes knowledge - even non-dual knowledge - to self-perpetuate, but doesn't realize it has done so (self-deception). Astonishingly subtle and sneaky.

Yeah, thought/language in its dualistic nature distinguishes "I", "thoughts," and "desires" into seemingly different things --- but it's just one and the same movement, as you said.

Yes. Simple pure, passive, choiceless attention of this physical manifestation of fear is necessary. Then it may evolve into something else (as it did from fear-thought to fear-sensation). Remember that the specific thought/sensation content isn't the thing. Just thought-self perpetuating, making use of what it can, and fear is juicy.

You got it. You got the concept of it I'm pointing to. But thought-self will seek security in this concept, as a form of knowledge -- to perpuate itself. See the utter subtlety of this? It must be seen for oneself directly, as a fact, wholly.

Thought-self cares about the specific content of thought, naturally -- cares about specific thoughts, identifying/attaching to them. But there is pure observation that is unconcerned with the specific content, as it is observing the whole movement of thought-self.

Yep. So critical to understand that knowledge/experience/memory/method, whether of the spiritual authority, or whether one's own inward, personal (psychological) authority, is made out of thought-time and can nourish thought-self (time).

Thought/self is simply seeking security/permanence in its own movement. The thought-objects of fear and seeking always change. Thought-self doesn't care about the thought-content/thought-objects so long as its movement is getting perpetuated/nourished by them. These thought-objects may be pleasant things, they may be terrible things. If there's any tendency to identify/escape/attach/seek security in them, then thought-self is eager to make use of them to self-perpetuate. So it's not about the thought-content, it's about the nature of the movement of thought-self itself. To see the whole of this is insight into the movement of thought-self.

Before there is any employment of method or technique, we must first understand within ourselves this movement of volition/fear/seeking; this movement-from-what-is in oneself. Otherwise whatever method/technique we use will just be used by thought-self-time, for the perpetuation of thought-self-time. Not much different than thought-self finding about some method to get rich quick in 6 months. The movement of ego can't end ego --- obviously. Thought-self will pretend like it's going to set out to use techniques to end thought-self, but it never actually follows through on it LOL. As the techniques/methods themselves can fuel thought/self/time.

sneaky little bastard indeed

It's the nature of thought to identify and it's the nature of identification to thought-ify

We can say that thought breeds thought. We can say that thought breeds identification. We can say that identification breeds thought. We can say that identification breeds identification. And we'd be saying one and the same thing. lol.

Indeed. The I-thought, like any other thought, is the effect of thought seeking security/attachment/identity, and then is the cause/breeds further security-seeking/attachment/identity with thoughts/thought-objects. Cause is effect is cause. Thought-self is a self-feeding movement. So where there is pure observation with no identification, no attachment, no fear, no movement-from-what-is, then nothing is nourishing I-thought.

This is very subtle. Self-deception is here, now, in the moment. Self-deception isn't off in the future. So let's go into this very carefully, slowly. Thought-self has been told that to have a myriad of methods is a bet hedging; a reflection of fear/doubt; a reflection of thought-self (ego) itself in movement. So what does thought-self then do? It reacts again with insecurity, searching for security in the idea/concept of just "sticking to one" method. Seeking guidance. Again, thought-self in movement. What is necessary is pure observation into the mechanistic nature of thought-self: always self-perpetuating, seeking security in its own movement. Seeking security in methods, concepts, the authority of another (all of which are of thought). All of this seeking is a movement of fear; the movement of thought-self. To not seek enlightenment or methods or authority but to observe with passive, whole attention the movement of this seeking itself. Observation free of the "seeker". Then there is whole insight into the movement of thought-self, and therefore freedom from its traps. Thought-self may read the above and again, see it as a concept and seek security in it; commit it to knowledge and regurgitate it later --- allowing thought-self to perpetuate still. This must also be observed.