Cocolove

I would think that being aware that everything is absolute love, truth, god, would eliminate suffering. I've had awakenings that completely eliminated suffering, showed me that every single quality of consciousness was absolutely PERFECT. So why couldn't someone reside in that awareness.

@Leo GuraAre you residing in this consciousness or just going off a conceptual framework from your psychedelic memories? Personally I can't take much back from my deepest trip awakenings, but I still someone know it was true, I just don't know how to conceptualize that. It's like once you see something, it is self evident, even if you aren't looking at it. But still I am skeptical of things that are not coming from your direct experience

Woah this is a super radical thing to say. I was wondering if you thought this. So you think permanent enlightenment just is not real? Just classic buddhist escape from suffering? yea yea body hurts functionality but for an enlightened person isn't the whole idea that there is no self illusion there to suffer? This is a pretty radical thing to say that contradicts like all spiritual consensus. Genuinely super curious to hear more about this, it raises so many questions. You really think that if you are able to suffer you can be experiencing the highest truth? isn't that a massive bias?

Hm so much to say. @nerdspeakwhen did you learn from him? I don't really have a strong belief about this, in fact I'm trying to figure it out. I think I also want it to be true that he is more evolved. But yea a lot of the points here were solid. But I think I also wanted to see how you guys would react to a steelman of him. But yea I see the truth in a lot of the points made. At the same time I think there is so much to learn from him. It's almost the perfect combination for when I'm at with the grounding of Leo's stuff. After years of just that stuff my business and dating need some serious work for a while. Still I will say I do think Owen has probably grown a lot. As far as that shady manipulative stuff with afterparty, I know julien was into that, but owen has said recently multiple times how careful he is about consent, even if it's just to protect himself haha. He seems to really believe that his sales tactics are helping people, and he always mentions that sales has to be win win to work. I think he can go a bit far but it really is not Overall I'm definitely still sure I have a lot to learn from him. I think his stuff will be transformative for my life purpose, and dating life. One thing, I can feel energy pretty clearly, and there have been some speeches he gives that have been absolutely psychedelic, deeply profound energetic experiences, where I was overflowing with unconditional love. Watch this one -if you can look past some bad nuggets of delusional 'content' and feel the energy and developmental perspective of this video -if you want to hear his actual critique of psychedelics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejszg1E-dGY

haha yea lets go game I'm ready

I get all these things, sometimes you will do one thing for a while (presence, healing, fulfilling lifestyle ) and then realize you really want to work on a big project, for example. As long as your energy is going towards good things, don't worry so much. You have time, and as you walk the path, all these things will become clearer. There is simply no way to really have this all figured out from right now.

If you don't know all those concepts you are walking in the dark. It's not the end all be all, you will need more information relative to your specific life purpose and personal self. It's a great foundation though and I'm very glad I took it. It was also good to get it as something I was thinking about and to set my goals high.

@nerdspeak Owen was very clear about his psychopathic narciccist analogy at the event. He just means for people who are very much in a loving spiritual energetic world, in order to have success in the physical world, they need to train themselves to see the utility and use of everything, including people. He mostly talked about protecting your time and energy. Being very utilitarian about building systems that allow you to get where you want to go. But yea that sounds like a terrible path to go down. Again maybe im biased because it's so easy for me to sort the wheat from the chaff but I think he was being clearer than it sounds like he used to be about that one.

Definitely true but also you can relate to this in a way that he is just an exceptional human in his field, all the massive projection is unnecessary. You can still behave normally and not project a bunch of stuff. For me it just took meeting a few people that I really looked up to to realize they are just normal people + I respect their expertise and excellence in a field I'm interested in, qualities which are universal and also within me

A meeting room almost seems like a bad place to do this, like where in a hotel? What if staff comes up. And Indoors, with fluorescent lighting and EMFs. Wouldn't some retreat center a bit outside of the city be better, where people can walk outside after without a jarring environment, without any risk of disturbance.

NYC freetour notes Marzcell Klein: #1 reason people will trust you is if you’re confident, how you dress, how you carry yourself. the reason you will be confident is if people have liked you. Vulnerability is confident. honest and trustworthy, openness, vulnerability are the #1 signals you can trust someone. we are in rapport with people who are like us or who we want to be like confidence comes from teaching yourself not to hide things from others shortcut to sales calls and relationships is pure authenticity. if you play games you will be fighting a massive battle and always chasing. whatever triggers you or hurts you tells you you have an insecurity. if i feel hurt when a girl doesn’t like me its because i am insecure about my likeability 3 things to create rapport -body language, mirrors neurons, having similar body language builds rapport. with confidence and presence this comes naturally -tone -words, saying words or things youre not supposed to say builds trust pacing and leading physical things builds rapport abundant paradigm prevents you from needing something from someone insecurity is essentially belief. every insecurity creates its own reality. RAS allows you to maintain a belief, generalizes, deletes, distorts. if you want to find out your limiting beliefs, ask why you aren’t where you want to be write out a massive goal, right after you visualize something like that you will feel big excitement, then your limiting beliefs will come up. if you’re afraid to ask for money, you have a limiting beliefs and will charge small prices -social calibration to someones emotional state law of state transference happens with mirror neurons. a dog barks and does a bunch of stuff, could become violent so it is scary when someone isnt calm. confidence allowed you to learn things faster Owen notes guard your time preciously when selling something, being very engaged but not attached to outcome signals the right energy, giving not taking -pitch -1st understand is that most sales bullshit is a waste of time -people in a high paradigm are shuffling the ball down the field, things are moving. unlike flurry of activity going nowhere -people dont pitch because they have a scarcity poverty mentality, which can also lead to not being willing to charge a good amount. people go to do the cta and they tense up ive got to have a great product, work on developing it so i really believe in it stack sale because i love it. Add a bunch of bonuses that will help the client get the result, that's how you know what to stack. PEOPLE WILL get the value that they invest, once you realize that you will feel good at a higher price. i need to think about for myself, the value that they will get out of it. the beggining of sales is inner game. they cant value you or the service if they dont have an investment like once a girl has sex with you, she can see your value, and will invest and be in love if you dont do good sales all this action goes to nothing making a thorough youtube series on my pitch, this will get multiple rois, i will also learn how to do my pitch his idea of a speech that doesnt go anywhere is the same as game that doesnt go anywhere sales is like instead of just talking in the club, passionate sex and going into nature together a sales pitch is a fine tuned surgery, it is very sensitive to interference the skills of game, sales skills, will pay off no matter what. high levels of syngery, the inner game of sales is understanding that people will get the value that they pay. you got the persons brain to attribute the dollar amount to the transformation john carleton kickass copyrighting secrets of a marketing rebel dan kennedy no bs 1st thing john carleton explains is people think they know marketing just like girls think they know what theyre attracted to. example of big corporations doing billboards doesnt work you learn to talk in a way that makes impact and moves people. sales done properly is so beautiful. every word is a pitch. everything must be sales copy. if its not generaring movement its just blabber if youre not going to sell someone, have a great energetic exchange. the equivalent with girls is not needing sex, but also wanting it all (travel to nature) life creation communication thats leading somewhere this was all a sales repitch getting you excited about these things is controlling RAS. its all on autopilot for him, he was talking about how he is doing this, and it all goes on autopilot. push and pull, fractionation at a certain point you get tired of game and pitches that go nowhere part of sales is showing genuine emotion its all a vortex of sales he is just selling sales again and again and again. keeps talking about how awesome the thing is, example after example get people to realize the dumb shit they blow money on, how little it is this has all been the inner game of learning sales. different scenarios of everything you can do with it. example after example Format of sales Hook features story that represents a problem widget pain pleasure, “do you want your communication to move people, do you want to do a wayne nutton(talking that goes nowhere)” this structure combined with speaking skills example: who is going to make money, sales, or a harvard degree pressure on pressure off is doing the sales thing then just relaxing feature and benefits, higher and lower self benefits in group out group frame how they get value in excess of the price to get repeats i wanna be laughing, learning, auditing failure, or moving people if they have resistance, keep stacking features benefits, say youre looking for the right person, in group out group when youre doing sales you teach the why not the how. just features and benefits takeaway in a high point in sales, similar to in game. headliner hook social proof credentials personal story features and benefits risk reversal when you click on a typical youtube video, you click right off. avoid sunk cost bias, view it objectively. these components should grab them by the overalls, and drag them into the video. think very carefully about the title, you have to test it there is a spectrum from in person to video to text sales. with a video they could click off any time high traffic, low competition score for title hire someone for thumbnails immediate sharp breaking rapport tonality. the moment you break tension they click off. its all objective language in the start. the hook can poke them, do a pattern interrupt, massive certainty, break past autopilot, congruent. i must record a video every single week, so that by the time i actually launch, you pick the one with the best sub communication or else there is way too much pressure positition yourself as an expert, actual credibility, social proof, speak with authority credibility is not credentials. its what youve done for people a coach has potential credibility because they are outside the box, but there are also snake oil salesmen. social proof, congruence, you can do real credentials later on always trying to balance value with comfort and trust. just tell the facts of what youve done figure out your niche first xyz problem for xyz person in xyz novel way social proof is the most powerful speak with objective language, ‘i do great coaching’ is subjective if you do one wrong thing it shuts the door buying temp goes up then cta zyz ppl over xyz years, or examplr of client numbers locations(comtinents) results they wont shut down, hes just sharing information. this is all leading to a cta cta is abt goving, the ask must b a give the whole thing must be a give. when you can feel in your body belief in your product is a good time to record tell your story is next, builds trust, relatable, how you were in heaven v hell david goggins story bc he was fat tear of how your life was before n after service descriptive language, deep into feeling it has to be real, the self is always shining through evoke feeling show dont tell the transformation what is time delay on that then features and benefits -can come before or after^ celebrity or brands youre associated with, or just that you are aligned with. when it comes to these things, it must be smooth effortless nonqualifying, also subcommunication if youre too nervous or excited. because its a normal thing in your reality, they want to jump into your reality bubble then do risk reversal gets more sales landing page llc payment processor merchant account, license, pump all money into right staff book financial intelligence this is a to b paradigm b to c is energy sign up now, bonus, tied to fast action, not give it away all the time, creates scarcity and urgency what is the industry, what is the offer, what is my avatar, frame a deal perception is reality, fuck with price to make it look better, 99, 3 payments, financing sooner buy discount. countdown clock address that there is a group, community, its like becoming a bf gf versus fucking a hooker, with the community consult marketers, do deep work on smooth n welcoming as possible the presentation must be beautiful if outsourcing sales you need good people Sid the missing thing to making money is always energy and clarity and presence. its a different fuel source. what is your brain constantly looping on youre not evolutionarily wired to see the opportunities that are all around you you should be channeling more energy than you can handle when you visualize. visualize what you actually want your life to look like upward spiral where it feels good because you are growing put pressure on yourself by being around people on a high level, fire under your ass plus carrot and if you actually just love the craft act on imperfect information paradigm of time for working flow state from work delegation structuring says no to everything else made lifestyle a priority part of enduring a job is acceptance and presence in a situation that sucks. after work bad habits instagra good habits, meditate, eat, work, learn maintain these archetypes of passion logic competition leadership creativity, impact try different passions what have i been building on for years realistic world class lane where do i have unfair connections talk to masters of the field, do you like them pick at some point n commit theres an uncanny vally when there is just a bit of incongruence when you do a cta you must feel like you are genuinely giving something the risk reversal helps with this is there a misalignment of words and actions you will see peoples red flags show up under pressure -quietly build your leverage back if needed -have more alliances and not npd friends -do not engage in these games become the gray rock, do not engage in useless conversations vision, creating artistic challenging large food forest projects, traveling all the time, nature exploration. not having to worry about money for any basic things. changing the agricultural system. relentless tim grover, star sports players had this dark pain that drove them what is the cost of not doing these things, years of shitty dating life, having to get a shit job again youre always moving too slow, post the videos, run cold traffic. move and iterate train the body to handle adrenaline, adrenaline is a priveledge, ussually evolutionarily we would feel it all the time. marzcel your mindset and beliefs are a strategy to get things -beliefs -emotions -patterns if you believe you can get what you want, you will. that is confidence what is my map currently doing if you are not getting the result, your map doesn’t actually know how to get it my money map -it is scarce, i can only make 2x what i’m making now. my women map -i don’t want to talk to them, i assume they wont like me. ibrahem -frame is something youre in 24/7 -in any interactions owens sales process he has this whole frame, this general understanding of how all of this works, that everything relates back to, e.g casually mentions that he has to scale the company so wont be teaching pickup for much longer. features and benefits all the time. how these skills can affect your life. i need to write out and perfect a general sales frame, it can go deep on features and benefits, not ‘how to’. this meta frame is what i will use for vsl, sales call, youtube videos. sids mergers and acquisitions sales speech, he is explaining the how of to do mNa, he is explaining the how and why he is painting a story of his life part of sids sales process is the manic episode, explaining how seeing whats possible helps is part of the frame. the mindset and energy is what opens people up subtle art of not giving a fuck Owen likes to read the sermon on the mount, the gospels

@Leo GuraGood points. He definitely could be a lot more developed. I was pretty impressed by how much more conscious he is than his youtube videos make him look sometimes. I definitely have a lot to learn from him. I'm going to post my notes per peoples recommendation. It's a lot more focused on business. I found the business stuff to be really helpful.

I started a market garden farm (definitely my domain but now I build gardens for people/organizations instead of farming), at one point tried did tiktok shop stuff for a bit(really realized how horrible it is to do something just for money).

Hey man, I took the course whenI. was 16 or 17, now 23. Don't worry, this is normal, a couple tips. -Start with the small bets. Just try something. there is no one perfect thing. -Then, it will be like peeling back layers of an onion. I also just didn't have enough life experience, but after doing a couple different things, I have enough perspectives on what things I want to integrate into what my life purpose is. Business model, domain, what you will do, your area of mastery, you really can't know these things for sure yet. When I did it, it felt fake almost, like I followed the steps, but I just knew I was putting something together that I had no idea if it was real or not. Don't expect instant results, this is material you will work with for a very long time, it's a long game, not a short game. For me, I honestly just needed to get a job I enjoyed and buy myself some time for a while while I explored different options. Now my life purpose is very close actually to my original one and in the same category, but the business model is completely different

One final thing about sales. I do think there is value to using sales tactics when you really believe in something. If Leo used a bit more of sales and marketing for his life purpose course, thousands of people would have better lives and impacts on the world that just needed a bit of limiting-belief-busting-objection-handling, energetic state pumping to buy it. I personally felt foolish buying anything like it and waited like 6 months to finally buy it, and might not of if I wasn't such a fanboy. Also if anyone wants my extensive notes from the NYC freetour DM me. a bit of personal stuff mixed in so not gonna post here but I got a lot out of it. I have been very sketpical about Owen for years but the more I learn from him the more I see there is incredible value in his work, its indispensible for life purpose and social life.

Definetely still agree with a lot of this. As far as psychedelics. What he says about personal growth and not needing psychedelics is actually pretty good. It's not a shallow perspective, but he talks about how to get the same experience from life itself. But what he doesn't get is the value of 'experiencing' absolute truth, and why some of the risks of psychedelics pale in comparison to the value of that. He does teach some stuff about ethics at a pretty deep level.

@Joshe You can do it in a not dirty way. There are manipulative outer techniques and deep identity level change. Ultimately the way Owen teaches it is being deeply authentic and getting rid of your neurotic holding patterns and creating better internal beliefs. You don't need to be ashamed about that. I tell my very close female friends about it, they think it's cool. Owen and his coaches bring girls to the freetours every time. Do you really think all these people on this forum constantly yapping about pickup are engaging in something that is based on manipulation and fakeness? Of course most pickup is like that, but the conscious version is an incredible alchemizing thing. I've seen him infield, his game is world class and his looks do not hold him back. Or watch infield, unless you think it's all staged.

For sure. If I hadn't been studying your stuff for 9 years I would be way more vulnerable to that stuff. So perhaps I'm biased because it's easy for me to sort the wheat from the chaff. I do think Owen wants to bring people up to yellow, he even mentioned spiral dynamics in his speech lol. Edit: "But if you study my work seriously it will innoculate you against Owen-style corruption." Just read this. exactly.

I honestly think he is yellow. Over the past couple years I've been going to his events. He basically uses orange stuff as part of his heavy handed marketing to meet people where they are at. But a lot of the speeches that he doesn't even post over the past few years are incredibly high level, it is very clear he is far above orange and green. He still has some blue and orange bits, but I think he is very integrated yellow. This comes from deeply studying spiral dynamics, ken wilber, susanne-cookgreauter, etc etc. It's in the way Owen thinks, not just some yellow posing. Also his buddy Sid who speaks at his events does 10 day meditation retreats al the time. Owen just has some holdups in blue because he has seen green censor his content, and in orange from addiction to his sex life and traveling. But overall that really is not much of him and I see him related to those parts of himself in a much more yellow way.

I'd come for sure

So how has kriya been for everyone? Question at end I started again: I stopped for years but recently just messing around with some pranayama started to feel a lot of energy. It basically feels like a low dose of 5meo dmt nearly every session for a decent amount of breaths. When the energy gets to bregma or brumadya, and I rest there, I just trip balls for a few seconds. I only recently was able to finally get my hands 5meo dmt and it feels so so similar to what I just described, which has happened before, but is happening a lot more now. It used to be a rare occasion that would happen some sessions and not stick. I had a ego death on a retreat once doing this, after I rested in the energy it just intensified until i had some out of body DMT like experiences and then just boom. Vipassana could potentiate Kriya I just got back from a 10 day vipassana and it has really increased my ability to feel my bodily and energetic sensations. I think this might be why it's working so well, I think I used to often just visualize my mental image/impression of the spine, instead of actually feeling the energetic flow through the subtle vibrations in the body. Just a theory. 5Meo could potentiate Kriya I also noticed in the past 4 days since I started working with 5meo the kriya effects are much more intense. I almost dissolved into a buzzing vibrating singularity this morning for a couple seconds on one breath. Felt just like a moderate 5meo dose. Anyways! Should I do the full protocol or like Leo said, just pranayamas or some basics? I tarted noticing these results from just plain pranayama. I am going to start to integrate in some basics, the JC book really emphasizes you must do navi kriya, etc. etc. Has anyone else tried just simplifying it. @Leo GuraWhy did you decide to simplify your routine? Edit: AI says Lahiri said maha mudra and pranayama are the basis and everything else is optional as needed, I thought Leo just came up with it haha.

I used to have a similar experience as a child. It was different every time but a lot of similarities. It was pretty ineffable and I remember modes of perception i just couldn't translate into this world. I remember one time my sense of body and visual awareness shifting into this giant sphere made up of little vibrating atomic particles and somehow being able to perceive every single one of them at the same time. Often just after waking up. I was always just in a state of awe, although it could be physically and energetically uncomfortable. I am suprised I didn't go tell anyone, as far as I remember. Perhaps because it felt more real than this reality I just accepted it in my little kid mind as real.

I just went on my first one and it seemed the old students were doing the same thing. I had a great retreat and the teachings are helpful but there is definitely some dogma about it being the best technique and other buddhist ideas about how spirituality ought to be.

@Leo Gura have you been doing kriya this whole time? I thought you didnt even do formal meditation anymore haha. I actually messed around with it after doing hardcore vipassana and im getting the same results in a few pranayamas that I got only sometimes in a whole session. I think the hyperawareness of body sensations from vipassana body scanning has helped me really feel the flow of energy instead of just guiding it from my mental projection of that part of the body. So I'm going to just do a bit of it each day and focus on vipassana but might get back into it.

Im done with kriya after 90 min daily for a couple years back when leo dropped the video. I just get better results with other techniques. If I was trying kriya I would be meticulous to follow the techniques perfectly. I got good effects and even had an enlightenment experience from it on a retreat one. I still can feel the energy and use it to channel sexual energy, get into a meditative state, but I find self inquiry style questioning and vipassana body scanning to work better.