Elysian

I was driving down the road the other day, listening to a talk by Sadhguru, about how associating self with everything self is not is what leads to a chaotic mind. Here's a link to that video: He said that one needed to get some distance between mind and self. He said that mind is simply a faculty, which made me think that mind is simply an extra sense, like a 6th sense. As soon as I thought this, it was like everything that everyone had been saying for so long in so many different ways all finally made sense, for whatever reason. In almost an instant, my mind became distinctly something within my awareness, separate from 'me'. The intricacy of how it's web had woven through my awareness became apparent, with sudden realizations happening moment after moment. The thoughts, the personality, the memories, how I was choosing exactly what to make my body do to navigate through traffic, the scanning of my eyes, it was all just different aspects of mind interacting with and within awareness. Soon after I brought my attention to my body, and my association with it fell away even quicker than my mind. It was like my awareness took a step back from body and mind, recognizing them happening, but not identifying with them. Suddenly there was a shift in my vision. I could see everything that was happening, but instead of focusing on one small thing, I was able to take in the entirety of what was happening while also still remaining aware of the body and mind. Typically I would normally keep my eye on a certain car while driving, while using my peripherals to to watch out for any sudden changes, but this was totally different. Instead of focusing on one car, I took in what all cars were doing simultaneously, only giving focused attention to a specific car when something happened quickly like a car suddenly breaking. It's hard to explain, but to be honest this was pretty disorienting. I then looked down at my hand, and even though I recognized the hand, I recognized it as a hand of this body, not me personally. It was just there within my senses, and almost looked like it was just part of the background. Like it was just another piece of matter among the rest of my vehicle. This all happened within few minutes. My mind quieted down extremely, almost completely silent except when I intentionally engaged it. It popped off a few times, but I focused my attention on the separation of awareness and mind and then it quieted down again. Something that was very strange that happened, was that all the sensations one might view as uncomfortable had absolutely no effect on me. The heat from outside, muscle soreness, even the after effects of anxiety I had been feeling throughout the day. It was all happening within my awareness, but underneath all was this calm peace that I've never normally been able to feel with all of that happening. Soon after this all started, I began feeling a pressure at the center of my forehead, right above my eyebrows. after about a hour or so that pressure began to be accompanied by a slight pain. I'd like to note that other than the initial realizations and shift in awareness, everything that happened did so with very intense, constant effort. I wasn't simply maintaining that space between awareness, body, and mind effortlessly. It took every bit of focus I could muster to keep it from slipping away. I felt like I had lit a small ember that I needed to keep safe, as to not forget or let that state slip away. But it felt like I was trying to do so when the only protection I had from the storm outside was a hut made out of twigs and palm fronds. After about 2 hours, within the dead silence I heard a voice say as clearly as I've ever heard, "You're not ready". It felt true, but I wasn't just going to let go of that state without any effort. Over the next couple hours it became more and more difficult to maintain. I continued to have sudden realizations, almost like the objective view combined with intense focus gave a kind of clarity I've never experienced in my life. For instance, I got out of my truck and began to walk. As I walked, I began to notice things like the speed of my walk was too rushed and putting unneeded stress on my body, my posture was putting stress on my back, etc. And within less than a minute of walking I had made several adjustments that just came naturally to me. I saw a colleague, and in a situation that normally would be difficult for me to make conversation, exactly what needed to be said just flowed right out of me effortlessly. And all of the issues of ego were nonexistent, I wasn't worried how this body was viewed, although I did care how I affected his ego. It was so strange. So about 4 hours after it started, it was impossible for me to sustain, I lost it. The separation stopped being as clear, I began to associate with the body and mind, even though I didn't want to fall back into the same old patterns. It feels like I was shown a glimpse of what self-realization is, but I simply wasn't ready to operate at that level. I've been meditating for several years, but my body and emotions need a lot of work. There is a lot of trauma both physically and emotionally I'm currently working through, and it feels like the current state of my mind and body simply couldn't handle the workload involved with maintaining that heightened state of awareness, whatever it may have been. My question is, what was this? It felt like a sign that I'm on the right path, and that I should continue improving this body and mind while trying to attain self-realization. Was this something different than enlightenment?

It's really fascinating to see what the mind is capable of when you can focus in and out with all of it's strength at will. I'm curious if the space you're referring to, which even the space from the body is definitive in that state, is because of expanded awareness outside of the body. Maybe by at least a few feet or so. Similarly to the space that can be created when remote viewing or Astral projecting. I only say that because it certainly felt like the body was within this awareness, but this awareness wasn't perceived to be the entirety of the universe. At least not to me, it seemed to be within a relatively close distance to the body in timespace, a point of consciousness instead of the entirety of the cosmos. But that's just my take on the few hours I had. My concern with the girlfriend would be my view of 'her'. My only conversational interaction with another person during my experience, although I didn't care at all how they felt or thought about me, I for some reason genuinely cared about how I would affect their ego, since that is what they associated with. I typically do care about such things, but even with the space between awareness and mind, their seemed to be a caring, loving force moving through me. It wasn't simply awareness choosing to interact with mind in such a way, or mind doing whatever it wanted. It's really difficult to explain. I was curious how that would play out with someone I knew closely. I recommend just watching some people who are enlightened speak. Mooji and Sadhguru are my go to's, especially Sadhguru. For some reason during the experience, their enlightenment pierced through so clearly, as if it was enlightenment reflecting itself back at me. It was very easy to recognize that state in others. It's crazy how they explained enlightenment before this experience, it might have sounded preposterous or at the very least in no way relatable. Many might see them as woo woo snake oil salesmen, but it just goes to show you the level of ignorance the ego can have, even of some of the brightest minds this world has to offer.

It seems similar in ways, like the dissociation from mind and body. To me this was the bread and butter of the experience. I used to take psychedelics in the past, and at least for me a defining characteristic was states of awareness being forced onto me/accepted by me, that would show me what could be but never left me In at those heightened states. Personally it felt undeserved which led to me seeking the states of awareness through focused effort. My experience was similar to psychedelic trips in that it was temporary, but the start of it was from an 'Aha!' Moment, followed by more insights, and through effort to shift my awareness the experience continued to unfold. I don't know about you, but for me psychedelic experiences were always hard to integrate because everything was so rushed and chaotic. With mine there was more room to soak it in, no body load to eat up any of my attention, it's allowed me to get some bearing on where to go from here. Hopefully your experience being extended over days will give you the proper time to integrate it as well. The best I can describe the experience to see how similar ours were, is there were simply three separate and distinct things: body, mind, and awareness. Becoming that separate awareness that instead saw of my body, as this body. My mind, as this mind. I, or awareness, never became unaware of anything that happened with body or mind, I simply was able to expand my awareness to include being aware of what they were doing, and simultaneously be aware of other things. That was bizzare, and so convenient. I remained aware of all the processes going on with body and mind, while also watching 30+ cars maneuvering around me in their totality. Which was just a weird way of watching all 30 at the same time, really neat. I never felt worried about the state, for me, other than peaceful the next best descriptor I could give would be relieving. Not having to carry around the weight of caring about things that mean nothing in reality, but everything to the ego. It felt like Atlas dropping the world, finally standing up straight to get a clear view. It's not surprising to me your girlfriend would notice that you look at her differently. I looked at everything differently, not just literally with my eyes, but also from the lenses of pure awareness. How could you look at her the same knowing she is at her core a point of consciousness confusing itself with the ego of that mind? Luckily for me I am single and have no need to contemplate what that Truth you experienced means for a romantic relationship. It's something to consider for sure. The best advice I have is continue meditating, be with that state of awareness, observe it, take it all in. For me, it seemed to be a sign that I was on the right track, and knowing what it might be like to 'get where you're going' is a great incentive. Note: if you two have been together for some time, she probably knows 'you' better than anyone, so if anyone would notice something isn't the same it should be her.

It sounds like repressed fear rising into the conscious, leading to insecurity and uncertainty. Repressed emotions can bubble up during the every day routine, but meditation and psychedelics both have the tendency to bring emotional wounds to the forefront. I've found it best to just allow the emotion to be expressed, and observe it unconditionally. Trying to push it away just leads to more suffering, the feeling wouldn't arise if it didn't need your attention.

If I have 2 or 3 days where I sit at least a few hours a day, I typically move to somewhere between stage 7 to stage 8 on this scale (and have reached stage 9 occasionally), but it's just something that unfolds naturally and not me following certain instructions. But, if I don't at least maintain a somewhat strong practice afterward, say sitting for 2 hours a day, I will usually just degrade in the quality of my meditation down to one of these lower stages. Is that because I didn't build up some foundation by forcing myself to remain in lower stages for more time, or because I might need more sustained, long sittings over a course of weeks/months instead of just a couple days? It's easiest to sit for long periods on the weekend/my days off, and that's why I haven't been able to easily sustain that time intensive level of practice.

Definitely. Watching my personality as just a mental process was an eye opener. Ah, sure I have some of those issues I'm currently working on, or have dealt with. Some of those on this list don't have a high priority in my mind, but as examples I get the point. Probably my biggest 'problem situations' are related to health. I've been dealing with an ailment that doctors believe is autoimmune related, but they haven't found anything conclusive preventing medical treatment. Essentially my connective tissue is easily damaged/weak, and doing even basic stretching or light exercise can cause a tear in a tendon, some of which got so serious that the damage is permanent. That's lead to a whole other range of issues, mainly though a loss in muscle mass by not being able to exercise properly. Since thousands spent got me nowhere with doctors, I'm just trying to do the best I can to improve my health in every way I can. Diet/cutting out meats, focus on improving mental health/reducing stress, doing what movements I can. My hope is that since autoimmune related issues can often be caused by stress, that this will improve my situation. Time will tell. I've got some addictions I've been working through, but have either eliminated some or made progress on others. Also trying to remove all distractions, but that's a work in progress. It seems when I've removed 'all' of my current distractions, my mind goes crazy, almost like it's kicking and screaming with the amount of thought that gets kicked up into the conscious. Very difficult to sit with objectively.

I love to sing and sketch. I get so focused on the moment in these acts that hours can pass in what seems like minutes. I'll continue to do them until my voice gives or my hand is sore. My question is, by engaging in these activities/desires am I simply hindering my progress toward self-realization? Can I not use these interests as another aspect of being meditative? I've put aside unnecessary social interaction to allow more time to understand myself, and have been cutting out time consuming activities such as watching TV, video games, and porn. But should I really throw out creative interests too? I would love to replace my current work with these hobbies that I enjoy, but I'll never be able to do that if I consider them a trap of ego.

Do you mean to instead simply recognize what isn't me and remain aware of it, instead of actively trying to combat an aspect of mind, which is essentially associating with mind to fight another aspect of mind? A mind trap of sorts?

Something I'm genuinely curious about or love to do. Something I'd do even if I'd never get paid to do it. Something I find fascinating when I do it or when I see others do it. Something that always makes me feel better, even if that's just working into or through difficult emotions.

Could you elaborate on problem situation? unhealthy habits, physical/psychological health, financial difficulties?

I'm not sure if anyone said something similar that I picked up on or not. It was something I was contemplating because of my short lived glimpse at what it means to be enlightened. The experience was so beautiful that I knew that I wanted to do whatever I need to do to create that distance from body and mind again. I just wasn't sure if the time I sink into my passions would be time better spent stripping association from mind. The creative process itself is inextricably linked to mind, which made me also wonder if it was simply another facet of mind to be overcome. I honestly don't want to give singing or sketching up, but if it was what it took to be able to focus on spiritual growth with proper intensity then I would. Thanks for the encouragement to stick with what I love.

I get extremely hot sometimes during deep meditation. So much so I sometimes need to strip and turn the A/C up. I'll look into these karmic obstructions you're talking about. I completely cut out partying some time ago, but in the past couple months I've been transitioning into a vegan diet as well. Been a heavy meat eater my entire life and it didn't seem to be helping me so I've been experimenting with cutting it out for health reasons. I've been eating either raw (salads) or food processed as little as possible, cooked at home. It's all a big learning curve, but I suspect this combined with other big changes lead to the experience. It's interesting how different the descriptions of the same experience can be just based on which point of consciousness + mind is doing the description. Trying to put words around the ineffable, close enough with the hope that it can point seekers in the right direction. His explanation matches the experience I had, although I find other's explanations easier to interpret, such as Sadhguru.

Thanks for this, it resonates with me. It definitely did feel like a gift. Although I've been walking this path of growth for several years now, I have much farther to go. Recently I've been making some big changes, which I think let the universe know I'm getting more serious. I had a similar experience happen several months ago. After a few days of meditating several hours a day, I reached a new state of awareness. I got passed what I believe was the latent subconscious, and entered a state of complete silence. I started to hear things getting moved around my room even though a fan wasn't on. Then I reached what felt like the edge of an abyss, and it seemed like if I continued everything I was would disappear. I wasn't prepared for that and had a knee jerk reaction of fear, which pulled me back out. When I opened my eyes, I felt a rush of energy flowing through my body, and what sounded and felt like a rush of wind hitting me left ear. My ear started popping like the air pressure had changed, but it was popping several times a second over and over. That went on for a little bit, then I got significant pressure and pain in the center of my forehead. That sort of stuff can really throw you for a loop, but it's fascinating.

That's what it felt like was happening during this experience. Piece after piece just kept falling away one after another. Personality, aversions, the meaning behind being someone's child, maybe that might be scary to most. To me it was a relief, the vicegrip of mind loosening up and becoming a proper tool, the worry about what others thought of me, the dread of uncomfortable situations, it just vanished. I'm interested to see what climbs out of the ashes.

I'm not sure what you mean by cost, but if it's my ego I'll let it burn into ash. I get what you mean, this didn't actually happen while meditating but I do try drop the pushing and pulling in one direction or another while meditating. This experience seemed to me that I, the observer, was pure unadulterated consciousness. The wording could very one what that would make 'me': nothingness, awareness itself, everything. Is this what you mean? Regardless of was certainly relieving. It felt like I dropped all of the crushing weight of my past and present. It became clear that the only trauma and stress that had happened was to the mind and body. Nothing truly ever happened to what I am, nothing ever could. It was amazing.

I've been trying my best to reclaim that state, we'll see how it goes. Other than starting with Vipassana techniques that I then modified for what's suited me best, and listening to others with similar experiences that I have, I have done it alone. Sounds like bad advice to say not to receive help from others though. It's like saying if you want to go to another planet do it all yourself alone. Don't read a book on Physics, in fact don't let someone help you learn how to read. This rabbit hole is a little silly, it's always good to see what others who have traveled the path your on did before you.

I've been meditating inconsistently for several years, moved to a daily practice a year ago, and in the past couple weeks have been meditating for 2-6 hours a day. I've tried a few different techniques, but always had difficulty implementing someone's teachings. It would end up leaving my mind more scattered than it was, even after weeks or months. I'm not well versed on the language used to describe these phenomena, so I will do my best to communicate how I've come to see it. I decided to sit down and just do what felt right, and this is where it's taken me: At the beginning of a session, instead of focusing on the breath, I put my awareness on awareness itself, sort of like looking in a mirror. I only focus on what is behind thought, sensations, listening. After 10 minutes to 1 hour, the mind becomes very quiet, and I lose the ability to focus on awareness. Instead, I just experience awareness, with a deeper level of calm. This feels like a shift in awareness, almost like to another stage. I can be here for anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes. From here, I transition into a more chaotic scene. I start having many visions. Most don't make much sense, some are memories, and rarely I experience memories that I needed to relive to work through and in turn let go of. I've relived traumatic experiences here, where I was able to forgive everyone involved, including myself, remembering suffering is only delivered by others who have suffered, and then let it go. This example helped me deal with anxiety I had been having. If the vision has no significance, I let it go as soon as it comes, and if it does then I follow it to where it leads. Sometimes I don't make it past this point, and could spend upwards of 2 hours here. Sometimes I breakthrough it in as little as 15 minutes. In reflection these visions appear to be my subconscious bubbling up, or awareness diving down into it, but this is just speculation. At the vision stage, I sometimes let out bursts of energy in the form of jerks or spasms. They've become less frequent the more I have been at these lower stages, and more frequently at places I don't have much experience in. If I make it through the visions, things calm back down. Awareness seems to focus in, and I begin to feel less associated with sensations and the body. Here, instead of random thoughts occasionally popping up, it's these previous visions. At this point I let all visions go as soon as I become aware of them. The energy releases/jerking becomes more common, I speculate because this a newer space for me. Here I feel the need to surrender self completely, and completely dissolve into the experience. Now we're caught up to present time. There were moments at this stage where I felt like my awareness was almost falling into something, and I would begin to lose my awareness of my body. I would what felt like involuntarily jerk out of it, with a sense of fear. When I would come out of that state, back into the previous, things in the room would move ever so slightly that it would create sound. I would get that feeling you get when someone enters the room, even though you didn't hear or see them. This would frighten me. I'm a lucid dreamer, and have been since I was a young child. I dream lucidly a few times a week, and associated with that I also learned how to wake myself up out of dreams. Sometimes though, I would wake myself up into sleep paralysis. And there have been times, where I would open my eyes into this sort of waking dream state, and an entity would be there, which seemed malevolent in appearance, but has never tried to harm me. Still though, it frightens me, and this feeling of a presence in the room would remind me of this entity. I have no reason to think it is related, other than that feeling of foreign presence. After coming in and out of this state of losing self a few times, I began to have pressure build up between my eyebrows. It started off light, then became very intense, almost breaking the threshold into pain. I would start to get a buzzing sensation in my ears, which would last for some time after I stopped meditating. The energy releases at this point are more frequent. I haven't reached this place many times, and when I have I haven't been able to completely surrender, but I'm working on it. I'm not sure if any of this makes sense, but this is how I've come to interpret my experiences. I would've followed one specific practice, but I've made lightyears of progress following my own path, compared to the brick walls I was hitting following teachings. I do read about other people's experiences in their journey, to see if I can relate to them in certain ways. I would appreciate any comments on how this all sounds, and maybe any advice one would have for me. Thanks for reading this far, enjoy the rest of your day.

@D-tron There have been times where I would get confused about what body part was doing what during meditation, but that quickly faded after getting up so I'm not sure. I think the way I meditate has a blend of mindfulness, as I'm aware of my body, breath, etc, but I just don't give it center stage. I meditate this way for hours a day, and the only discomfort I get is from sitting position or working through emotional trauma. If you're worried about your mental health I would consider doing due diligence before proceeding, maybe asking a more skilled practitioner. I feel like a newborn in the middle of an ocean, and am not equipped to give much guidance.

@D-tron I've been feeling increasingly connected. I don't know if it's relevant, but somewhere in the middle of sitting, I switch to meditating on gratitude and love for about 10 to 30 minutes. I'll reach a point of tears, by the depth of gratitude, but also by experiencing the ineffable beauty of life. This helps me live from my heart more, and since I started practicing it, I've felt more emotionally healthy, but also I've developed a much healthier perception/energy. It could be coincidence, but after some time practicing this, my interactions with others seem much more positive and heartfelt/connected. Even before I've even said anything to people I'm just meeting for the first time, their greetings are often so kind and sincere, in away they typically weren't before, that it catches me off guard in a very good way. Several months ago I had an experience with LSD, and the ineffable beauty of reality became absolutely clear. The wind blowing, my hand moving through space and time, the smile of a stranger, all of these seemingly mundane things that I would normally let pass without notice, had me reaching a depth of joy I have never felt in my entire life, and that I've never seen anyone else express until that day (2 friends of mine also reached this state that day). I had an uncontrollable stream of tears moving down my face, that felt so right I didn't even wipe them away. I would watch a drop of water my arm, lost in the complexity of everything coming together to allow me to even experience it. It felt like Source, the Multiverse, God, whatever it is to you, was giving me a glimpse of the true nature of creation. It seemed to be telling me that this was just a small fraction of what this life truly is, and that my mind couldn't even handle experiencing anymore at that time. But something else was also very clear, this wasn't a permanent gift, it just made me aware of the state I should move towards. Being that I was experiencing what I would call Heaven on Earth, since that time I've been progressing to be a soul that experiences the world in such a way. Meditation, practicing gratitude, trying to be my true self, among other things, have been recreating that world right in front of my eyes. Every day I'm moving closer to that place, and in doing so have been connecting rather than detaching. That was the most connected I've ever felt, experiencing myself as a fractal of God, and it's something I intend on embodying, regardless if all of this might seem like an "ego trap" to some. If it matters, this wasn't my first experience with hallucinogens, and was one of the most enlightening trips I've had.