traveler

Of course there is a difference. A rock is a rock, a head is a head.

Okay, I will back out now. Have a good one

I hear what you are saying, I'm not talking about experiences though. This happening, this apparent back and forth dialogue is not separate from "it". @James123 and @traveler is nothing appearing as this play of bad communication between two characters, there is nothing to be gotten, there is nowhere to go. This happening is complete already.

How do you know any of this? These are assumption based on nothing but stubborness and self righteousness. Your main assumption is that you know what this is. This is nothing being, this is not really happening, it has no solidity. It comes and goes, and when it goes, it never was.

I'm not stopping Leo from writing, this is a forum not Leo's blog. I'm not saying what I've learned, there is not really anyone here saying anything. This just arises out of nothing, there is no individual over here that has this knowledge. Someone is apparently here typing this, but this body has no idea of what we are talking about. I will say this, good for you if you think you have found something that others don't have. It feels real good doesn't it? That subtle feeling of superiority that you get. In the end just to mask the feeling of falling from grace though.

It is different from a body yes, if there is a "me" identifying as the body there will be separation between "me" and the phone. Non duality is not pointing to some mush of everything, it is not pointing to "one," it is pointing to "not two" which has nothing to do with one. It is indescribable which is why the word "non duality" gives no further clues than that it is not what it seems.

Point is that nothing is the case already, nothing needs to happen for nothing to become nothing, it is already nothing and everything as you said. So the appearance phone does not need to go away for there to be no phone. If all is one now, "we" aren't. There is no actual we, but the experience of being a self here talking with another self over there is still a possibility. There is nothing wrong with that and then something right with being "only God" as you call it. Enlightenment is not a state of God consciousness, it is the total acceptance of all possibilities with no hierachy of better and worse. All is included, this experience does not need to be overcome, but this experience could be an experience of something to be overcome. The possibilities are infinite, in theory, but the only real possibility is always that which is open to infinite possibility which IS what is.

You're talking as if you could be anything other than God. Movement is God moving, phone is God phoneing, forum is God foruming and so on. There is nothing wrong at all with what is, you could say that "what is" is already what "God" wants, but that still creates a distinction between "the two." God = what is. The dream in a sense stems from resistance to what is, it creates a distance in which another "what is" that is fulfilling must be out there. This "what is" is the "what is" "out there" that you are looking for. Jesus I just read that over one more time and it is just a jumble of words. Might not be the greatest expression, but the point still stands. There is nothing wrong, but it won't mean anything until the experience of something wrong falls away.

Who actually knows and who cares? We can only theorise, humans love theorising. All life forms grow. Actualization and enlightenment though, is fabricated by the unique human experience of being separated. "Enlightenment" is separation looking for a reason or meaning to it's illusory reality. It never finds it, notice you haven't found it? It is not for you, it is not an exclusive thing only for humans. Humans have an extra layer that is called "me" (lack of a better word) that creates separation from everything else. That layer can fall away, it won't make you more special than a dog or a flower, it won't make you better. IT IS A LOSS, you can't comprehend real loss though, because if you could, did you really lose it?Enlightenment is purely an egoic pursuit. This is it, there is no welcome home party, you were already always home.

That was maybe a little harsh, I've said all I can say, there is not much left to discuss. I do wish you the best. Can't really give you any advice other than take a break from trying to understand.

@arlin I'm done with you bro, good luck.

First of all what I am pointing to has no correlation with any beliefs you have about it. Don't take anything I say to be the truth or helpful in any way, I am pointing to the unknowable which can not be known. No free will is the case already, if you have free will why don't you just drop all of this non duality nonsense, forget about it and go live your life to the fullest without fear. See, you can't, because free will is just an illusion. This does not mean passivity, it doesn't lock you into a particular experience where you now have to be a certain way and give everything else up. This is what the non dual bullshitters on here and teachers are talking about, but there are absolutely no rules. This is not about anything, it is not about being good, it is not about being peaceful, it is not about being better than the average Joe that has no idea what the fuck non duality is, it is freeeeedom. I feel like the main motivation for many is how they will be special and better than those "ignorant normal folks", spirituality is merely about being better for most. This gives that need nothing, and it leaves you with nothing. Seeking is not negative, it is just what it is, everything is just what it is. Seeking is seeking, cup is cup, bla bla bla.

@arlin I know you are tired of it, I've been there. I have to tell a story to get across to you so here it goes. I did not achieve anything, I searched and searched and searched I listened to thousands of non dual talks but got absolutely nowhere. The frustration and seeking fatigue can suddenly lead to a total surrender to the hopelessness of seeking. Then there is just what is without any attempt to grasp it in any way, a full stop in trying to get somewhere else. What is left is not a state of absolute knowing and omniscience, what is left is what already is without the seeking energy of trying to change anything. What is longed for is not a state, that is what the seeker longs for because it is in it's own dissatisfying dream of this not being it, what is left is what is truly longed for: this without need of being anything other than what it is. I am not an authority, I did not achieve anything, there is truly no one here, all there is, is this absolutely meaningless but astonishing ordinariness and wonder. The wonder can not be known, it is already, but the seeker will never get it because it believes it knows what this is already and that it merely is a barrier that needs to be overcome.

@arlin Embrace not knowing.

@arlin Put your hand up in front of your face. Now wave..... that is God waving at you.

You can call it whatever you want but it is not the words. The words are pointers. The person lives in the psychic world of pointers. It is like saying that a cup is actually the appearance of the cup, it isn't. The actual appearance of the cup is unknowable, it is just what it is, we can call it an elephant, a windmill, a turd, nothing actually touches the actuality of the cup because there is no actual separation in which it is solid and real and is bound to anything, everything is just what it is. It is not realized by anyone. There is nothing to realize because there is not two, already. Now you'll try to realize that. No, I'm just describing what seems to happen in the dream. What I'm pointing to is simple, there is no one here trying to convince you of anything. It can not be gotten, because trying to get it, is in the way.

There is nothing I say that will help. In the dream of two there is a constant attempt to solidify the experience, to make it real. The struggle/suffering is the grasping to know something when in reality there is nothing. Nothing is not an empty void of blackness, nothing is incomprehensible, it is this already. Nothing is infinite, it does not look a particular way. When nothing arises as an illusory experience of being separate it brings about suffering, because suddenly there is a real person here that feels like it is missing something, it is actually missing nothing. The "real" person thinks that it has to somehow get rid of this appearance and reach another better appearance/state to get fulfilled. It can not realize that there is nothing that needs to change for this to be what it already is. It feels like something needs to change, but that movement/feeling is what it is, it IS what the wrongness of the appearance. There is nothing wrong at all, there is no end goal, the person is in search of the actuality of some concept called unconditional Love, not being able to see that it already is all there is. This is not about death or life, it is not about anything. It is unconditional love appearing as whatever is appearing. There is nothing outside of this appearance, this does not need to be understood, it already is.

There is no one here that knows this, nothing is not a thing owned and known by someone. There is nothing to realize, when the excessive attempts to realize this, stops happening, then it is realized that there is nothing to realize.

It does not come from anywhere, it is nothingness appearing as that. When we talk about the experience of the dream we need to tell stories, because the dream is not actually happening. This appearance, this exact appearance (but not exclusively this appearance) is nothingness. It is not nothingness becoming the appearance, that would create a distance between the appearance and nothingness. It is just fresh, totally unique, never recyclable pure creativity. This can not be recognized by the dreamer though, because in the dream this is known as something tangible and real. The dream is pure creativity appearing as boring known dead stuff, the dreamer is boundlessness appearing bound.

Have had sinus problems for many years, so yeah I've definitely experienced that. Don't attach any meaning to it though, it doesn't mean anything. Let it come and go, take care of yourself and don't force meditation it's not as important as everyone says, ssssh don't tell the others I said that... sitting in quiet does not need to be labelled meditation, "meditation" makes it seem like it is a task or a chore, sitting on a chair in silence does not need effort. There are some "don't's" here, it is ofc merely a suggestion.

The spirituality many people speak of on this forum is a fairytale. People preach about awakening and non duality without the slightest idea of what it actually points too. There is no plane or state that you enter when you awaken. Awakening is awakening to the reality that there is no planes or states, all of that is a dream. There is nothing, there never was something. This is an explosion of utter emptiness beyond comprehension, an emptiness that engulfs the whole of existence. There is no place to go, there is no place to escape, this is all there is, LITERALLY. ALL THERE IS. All there is, is infinite, it has no outside, you can not measure it. The birth of the "I" is destined for disaster, it will look endlessly for something, but all it will ever find is the shaddow of nothing. This is terrible news for you ? These words are the absolute, the one speaking.

Yes, nothing can touch this isness, no words come close, some words seem to point more directly than others though. It doesn't actually matter at all, it is just what is happening. And there is nothing inherently wrong with thoughts.

There is no need to know what a cup is, a cup is the appearance of a cup which we label cup. There is in reality no need to grasp anything, everything already is what it is and it can not be known as a solid thing, because it is not a solid thing. There is no separation between a cup and the seeing of a cup, everything is differentiated one/not two/unknowable isness. The individual separates everything by being real in it's own dream.

It is not a spiritual state though, it is/can appear more ordinary than a seeker thinks, it can appear as anything. All there is, is what is apparently happening, if there is an individual in that, then it will seem real, and from there seeking for escape and liberation arises.

The attachment that lays deepest is the attachment to knowing. Life can not be known, it just simply is. Nothing needs to happen, it is already complete just by being.