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@robdl @Faceless Let's pick this apart. But first, let me get back to my original question: What is neither [yes], nor [no], and yet it feels as if it is both [yes] and [no] at the same time? In the 'conditioned mind' there is the duality of fear vs desire. In the 'unconditioned mind', the duality of fear and desire is unitary. To this 'unconditioned mind', it is not that it is either fear, or desire, but that it is both and neither. To the 'unconditioned mind', it is not that it is either fear, or desire, but that fear = desire. So, as we observe the 'unconditioned mind', we can see that it introduces the third 'choice' (choice here being a special word denoted with apostrophes). To the unconditioned mind, there is yes, there is no, and there is yes=no. Here, I am denoting 'choice' as a special word, as for you, the word choice denotes the movement of the conditioned mind. The unconditioned mind, however, sees yes and no as not free. The unconditioned mind, then rejects yes and no on the basis of freedom and pursues the yes=no. This is the nature of infinite/sacred creativity. This infinite/sacred creativity is still conditioned in the sense, that it always rejects the [yes and no] and turns [yes=no]. Not because there is a reason to reject them, but because it rejects reasons. The movement of infinite creativity is not a no-mind state, but an anti-mind state. The conditioned mind is bound by reason, and the unconditioned mind is, paradoxically, bound by no reason. The unconditioned mind is still a conditioned mind, but flipped upside-down.

@Zweistein Not arrogant at all. I have an intuition that Spiral Dynamics is the hero's journey in disguise if zoomed (and vice versa). Are we willing to explore it?

@Faceless I am not asking these questions to know the answer, as the answer cannot be known. I am asking them to point something out to you. What is neither [yes], nor [no], and yet it feels as if it is both [yes] and [no] at the same time?

@Faceless What is the third option to yes and no? There is yes, there is no, and there is X. What is X? Inquire into the nature of X.

@Faceless Can we observe that time implies [yes or no] and timelessness 'sees' the third option? What is the difference between [yes or no] and the third option?

@Faceless Thank you for this post! Very good. Very, very good!!! Here are some questions for you to contemplate (innerly, or here on the forum). Is there duality between fragmentation and wholeness? Is there a non-volition movement away from fragmentation towards wholeness? Is wholeness attractive and fragmentation repulsive? ( ^^^^^^ these are actually the same question) Is there a difference between [yes or no] and [neither yes nor no]?

@now is forever Yes Beliefs are born and instantly annihilated. It is neither that I'm still, nor in motion. Constant zoom. This conversation so far was a fuel to start this reaction.

@SoonHei Reasoning is not something you should reject. Why don't you follow every single why the mind gives you and see if you can really ground it in anything? Notice that you can always ask why, but sometimes you won't be able to give an answer. Notice that sometimes reasons go in circles, as in A->B->C->D->E->...->A->B. Do not take my word for it. You have to see for yourself. Neither trust me, nor do not trust me. Keep an open mind and investigate.

@SoonHei What does it matter whether you want something or not? Do you also want to want? No, but the wanting is still there. If you can want without wanting to want, then why do you need to want to do something else? Wanting is groundless. You are being pulled left and right by the forces you are yet to recognize. After you recognize them - all you have to do is own up to them.

@now is forever Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I acknowledged your inner child. I won't pick on it any longer. Sorry. We're both looking for wholeness, but in the opposite directions. To me, motion is whole and indivisible. To you, stillness is whole and indivisible. Both are fine.

@Cortex The greatest super power is the willingness to face life without them.

@Zweistein But then, we could continue this conversation forever. Haven't we split for a few hours last time this conclusion was posted?

@Zweistein That energy was delicious, thank you. How do I keep asking questions if I'm satisfied? Oh, wait...

@Zweistein So, I guess my questions aren't worth answering then.

@Zweistein What is the difference between 'me' and I=you=we? Even if you talk about 'you' I still find out the answer 'myself'. @now is forever Do I, or do you? What is the difference between us, if we're both cornered?

@now is forever Poor little cornered us . Are we good now?

@Zweistein I went meta on the thread and pointed a finger at the lurking viewer that keeps going back to this thread and is for some reason does not join. It was an invitation. Did I just blow it? It's quite interesting that you thought it was about you . But I can see given the context it was asked in. So... what is it about questions that they are more compelling than answering??? So... what specifically about my 'personal' answers was of value to you? Damn, you're slippery.

Oh, here's another one: Why are you, the quiet lurker, keep lurking in this thread instead of joining?

@Zweistein Why is asking questions more compelling to you than answering them? What is it about impartiality that it is so important? Did my 'personal' answers give you anything of value?

Gosh, this thread is a nuclear reactor. Wheew! Thank you @Zweistein for taking care of us. Why don't you answer some questions for a change?

@now is forever Why do you want to keep doing this? Yes, you're right. I'm still using logic. I'm still placing head over my heart. Yes, I'm an unenlightened peasant that talks about things he has no experience of.

@now is forever Logic is just another feeling. Sigh... now I'm tired of this conversation. Maybe you are right and I'm greedy, although I see nothing wrong with it. @Zweistein, would you please let some air in?

@Sashaj Keep working on your head to take it off like what @Faceless suggests. The trick is that the headless rider can also take his lack of head off .

@now is forever lol Kings and queens only make sense if you are playing the game of chess. I don't play the game of 'making the world better'. I play the game of games and I want to learn its rules. The game of games is not a game of two players. Kings vs queens. I am not trying to mess with your game. I want to mess with mine and you simply give me the right problems. If you feel tired by our conversation then we can take a break. I'm holding nothing against you, you know? It's not wrong to have beliefs. I have them too, but I don't know what I believe anymore. They are just like quantum foam. They form in pairs and annihilate at once.

@now is forever Yeah, I get it. Pushing too hard only breeds resistance. Resistance is a form of strength, but turned upside down . I'm not pushing as a serious adult. It's a childlike exploration of turning stones, one by one, looking for treasure. Don't make me into a strong adult in your head. I don't want the world (yet). I just want all stones, that's all.