tsuki

@Zweistein Why dogs? Enneagram is a prophecy that can be fit onto your experience to produce a nauseating feeling of being a puppet. That is what gets 'you' out of your head. Seeing the puppet nature of 'others' is also a tool to frame their perceived transgressions as inevitable. That results in compassion.

@TheSomeBody People that don't want to live, kill themselves without posting about it on an internet forum. Instead of inquiring into why you want to kill yourself, you should inquire why is it important to talk about it here with us.

@Zweistein Have you heard of the enneagram?

Hey, that's me! Antiphobic type 6!

@Ar_Senses I can relate to what you describe from my personal experience. Conforming to authority of society has always been a struggle to me, until I realized that in doing that, I am establishing my own rules and expecting them to be followed by the ones that are close to me. It is possible to authentically conform to the rules of society, if you are willing to observe that your authenticity is established as a way of (conscious, or unconscious) braking of rules. It is done through self-reflection. By breaking the rule of breaking the rules. It may seem like a preposterous suggestion, but that is precisely what I'm saying. Become authentic by letting the most precious thing you have, the expression of your humanity, shine in the back pocket of your uniform. Unbeknownst to anybody.

@SOUL You're back!

@Toby Thank you.

Read the signature. To learn what Ego is. Anything more specific? And do what, exactly? Any place is as good as this one. I gotta re-watch the Leo's video on Zen devilry. I remember that it had a big impact on me.

Yet again, it's difficult to look into the mirror. An enlightened person would know that it is impossible to force anything on you because he had tried that and failed. That understanding comes about only through very deep understanding of the Ego. You are mistakenly thinking that this conversation is about you learning anything. Yes, I am needy.

Thank you for reminding me of that. I wonder how do you read my emotions through the monitor. Is it because of the lack of ""? Or is it perhaps because of your own emotions?

Yeah, I know that it's really difficult to look into the mirror.

That is precisely my point. Read my previous reply again. Are all psychiatrists mentally healthy by definition? Who is there to tell them that they are mentally ill? Other psychiatrists? Would a mentally ill psychiatrist admit to himself that he has a problem? Yes. Both of these judgments fall flat on their face once the possibility of your own mental illness is open. It is all you, judging others to be mentally ill by your (possibly - I'm not here to judge you) ill standards of mental health. What if I told you that the possibility of my mental illness is left open to me? Wouldn't it actually make me healthier than the one that is perfectly convinced of his good mental health? After all:

I'm willing to bet that he thinks that his response was healthy as well. Isn't the willingness to admit your own folly a prerequisite of growth?

To me, that is the greatest fun. To do your best to learn, and see that this very process of learning is what makes your efforts obsolete, or backfire. What else is there to do in life? Healing others? Just wait to see how you learn that...

You brag a lot dude. Thank you. Anything more specific?

@Eva Don't worry too much about being advanced or not. Bragging about being advanced is a trap in itself. The maze is such that conquering the small traps lets you notice the big ones. It is not at all obvious which are small and which are big. The same applies to being advanced or not.

What do you mean by "'unhealthy' to them"? The authors of the book explain the spiral dynamics model in terms of various examples. They have chosen China as an example of unhealthy blue. China is an unhealthy manifestation of blue to the authors of SD. Are authors of SD Chinese so that through self-reflection they come to realize the unhealthiness of China? Probably not. If they are actually judging China as 'unhealthy' and 'in the need of change', then they are simply wasting their (and your) time. The only sensible (to me) reason to call China 'unhealthy blue' in a book about SD is to define blue in terms of what China does. Calling China 'unhealthy blue' is not a statement about China at all. It is a statement about SD. What I was saying in my previous post may have not been clear, so let me re-phrase it: 'Unhealthy' stages are 'unhealthy' only from the vantage point of the later stages. In order to grow (change), you need to explore the whole possibility space of a given stage. Only through self-reflection on your excesses in relation to previous stages you are able to transcend the stage you are currently in. No amount of books can change China.

Recognize that your understanding of what they are doing is not their understanding of what they are doing. Instead of trying to correct their path, try to understand how they think that what they are doing is right. Do that without the intent of disrupting their behavior and steering them in the 'right' direction. You do not see 'others' suffer. You suffer for them. You project your understanding of them into the future and experience that as suffering. Own your suffering by recognizing its message. Find a way to make suffering necessary. Do not avert your eyes away from it. Do not isolate yourself and do not try to minimize it by influencing others. Both of these attitudes are ways to avert your gaze away from it. Take it in and love it. In order to do that, you have to open your heart. Not close it.

@How to be wise Memes become unhealthy when we outgrow them. We outgrow them when we identify them as the driving force of our actions. The moment of identification is the moment that the meme is born (named). China does its unhealthy things because it has not really understood what is the impact of its actions. The things 'we' call unhealthy are only that because we point finger at 'them' and judge them from our reference point. They are not unhealthy to 'them'. 'They' need to construct their own memes about themselves and grow on their own. Unhealthiness of the past is the result of self-reflection.

@Martin123 Great post. From my adolescence, I vividly remember being bullied by my father into being meek towards everybody else in the family. If my mother wouldn't get what she needed/wanted from me, she would feel bad, even cry sometimes and my father would hold it against me. It is not necessarily my mother's fault in the sense that she might have not wanted him to act it out like that, but I can tell it was a fuel for many years of our fights. She would never make a scene in front of him, but he would always play the protector of the weak that are bullied by me. The funniest thing is that by protecting them from me, he would make me into his rival and in doing that - empower me. To fight for power over family with a teenager is the way to make yourself equal to a child, or a child equal to an adult. That, of course, would make me pick fights with him, quarreling over the most pitiful things like politics. That would make him even more entrenched in his defensive position of the protector of the family. I still catch myself picking on him when we're both older. But since I'm financially independent now, we play it off like a joke. He grew up without a father, so he did not recognize himself as one. I hope that I will have enough foresight to see my own mistakes if I have a child, as I have grown against my father. Having said all of that, even if it had caused me a lot of suffering - I do not hold it against them. The only reference point for our suffering is our pleasure. This way, even the most peaceful childhood may look like hell from a certain perspective. As we learn, grow, and experience more mindfucks - we understand that our childhood was fucking strange as shit. Not at all what we thought it was. That is the essence of growing up. However, the way in which we see our childhood now is no more true than what it was back then when we were that child. In my opinion, the conclusion that our parents abused us is no more true than the conclusion that they loved us and that was the expression of their love. How to heal from that? We all have the freedom to decide what to do with things that had been done to us. @Privet What about the selfish grounds for empathy? Seeing no difference between 'me' and 'other'? What would you call that? Apathy?

What do you mean by thought?

Profound insights explained in terms of everyday examples.

Difficult to address anything specific in a non-specific post. The thing that has caught my attention is that for some reason you seem to be expecting the identity to be constant. it's not. The same 'outside' can be viewed differently because of the 'inner' lens you currently have. It is not only that the 'outside' always changes, but the 'inside' goes all over the place as well. Trying to find a fixed point of reference in this kaleidoscope is a challenging task. The best thing to do here is to learn to enjoy the bumpy ride that can become unbearably still at times. It's an acquired taste and the only reference point there is. It is not even related to your ADHD. It is just the way it is.

I see. That is interesting. It feels like I've been doing that unintentionally, but to do that intentionally... for fun? Hmm... From a certain point of view, my whole life feels that way. To become the useless teapot. I love that idea. Hahaha That's just preposterous. I absolutely adore it . To embody the absurd. Hahaha What have you done to me?! This is amazing .

I am not doing things 'the right' or 'the wrong' way. I have no idea what I am doing. I surrender to any given situation and wish for success in the sense of meeting the goal, but failing it (not meeting it) is not a failure for me. The failure to meet the goal is just a realization that the goal was set shortsightedly. That it did not take everything into account. The 'worst' outcome is to die, but that is not my problem at all. Hurting others would be painful for me, but that is just another opportunity to watch the ego squirm. If you are suggesting to purposefully not meet a goal with malevolent intent of damaging something, that is an interesting idea. I have never tried to do that purposefully, but I had my fair share of unintentional damages that turned out to be okay in the end. The question (from me to me) is: what would be the purpose of purposefully failing? The answer to the posed question would then be: the purpose of failing purposefully is to... win? Hmmm...