WaveInTheOcean

I gotta give it to your Leo (based on your recent blog post). JP is definitely orange with a scent of blue. Yeah, he's fighting against green's increasing influence in society. Chomsky is a good example of yellow, and Chomsky has a way more integral view of the world than JP. Just as someone like Alan Watts had a way more integral view of the world than Chomsky. Whereas JP is orange with a scent of blue, Sam Harris is orange with a scent of green. It's like JP is stuck halfway between blue and orange, whereas Sam Harris is stuck halfway between orange and green. They are both fascinating human beings, very smart, but yeah, very limited in their ability to see their own perspective... I guess you have to master green and start sniffing into yellow to be able to see your own ground.

(with Alan Watts' voice over).

- Osho

Also yeah. Be aware of your bad habits as Wind says. Observe them. There may be contradictions under the surface. If you feel playing PC games makes you happy, why stop? If you don't enjoy playing PC games, why are you doing it? To escape something? Meditate on it.

The rational mind is a blessing in many ways, just as it is also a curse in many ways. One of the ways in which it is a blessing is in the way it can be used to construct rules and routines for yourself that will help you. Life is paradoxical in the sense that to get more freedom, you have to create some rules for your life. If you have no rules, you have no freedom. Of course whether you have rules or not, it's important to be aware of the fact that all rules are human-mind-constructs. But they can still be useful - to get more freedom. e.g. a rule of not taking MDMA more than once every three months. Useful rule, cos if you break it, you might be frying your brain, which will make you a zombie without any freedom:) One out out of many examples. Another one might be staying healthy by eating healthy and so on and so on. Or having a meditation schedule. Or a rule saying that you maximum may play 1 hour of video games a day. etc etc. Jordan Peterson has some good rules in his book:D 12 rules for life: Stand up straight with your shoulders back Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping Make friends with people who want the best for you Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world Pursue what is meaningful (not what is expedient) Tell the truth – or, at least, don't lie Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don't Be precise in your speech Do not bother children when they are skateboarding Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street Go follow some of the rules, my dear friend.

brains exist just as much as you - as markussweden - exist. Do you feel like you exist? probably, otherwise you wouldn't be posting posts here. Love, beauty, compassion, peace are also projections. It's all an illusion, and sure if you get to that state where you really see that so clearly, then you can't help to find it amazing and beautiful. But since you put effort into making this post, it's clear to me that you're not at that state yet (i might be wrong lol:D). Not that I am either. Rape and war are very real in the sense that it is happening in this world, in this dream.

Great comment Brittany. That's the drama of life, that's the beauty of it, the insanity of it, the thrill of it. Ultimately when people suffer a lot, it's God suffering, it's God's choice to suffer, so to speak, so it's perfect. Everything is perfect, ultimately speaking. Relatively speaking, a lot of shit is going on the world now lol .. *cough* trump *cough*.

That's true. I don't know yet, but we'll found out if that ever happens. It will probably hurt. I mean even if you're on a very high level of awakening, it will still hurt you if your child gets run over by a bus and dies. I think the difference is, that a higher-conscious person will allow it to hurt a lot and get over it much quicker than a person who clings too much and resists too much. The person who deeply knows that life is fundamentally just a theater play will play his role and cry for his child, but will get over it and move over to a new role in the play much sooner, cos it's not fun to watch a theater play where the same actor cries for too long time:D

Reality is meaningless indeed. But it's also full of meaning, just look around. What I'm saying is that reality is <"insert anything"-less> , i.e it's nothing, but it's also everything. Yes objectively speaking there is no deeper meaning. But, there exists no objective viewpoint. Subjectively speaking there exists meaning everywhere. So to say it more directly, reality has infinite potential for an infinite multitude of meanings exactly cos it is completely meaningless.

My take on all this. First of all Leo, my dear dear friend, Spiral Dynamics is nice, and it's pretty accurate on a lot of things. On an other hand, it's just a fucking model, and like all models it has it flaws. It's inaccurate in some areas. I like Spiral Dynamics actually. It's cool as fuck. But it feels a bit like you've in the last few months has made Spiral Dynamics almost into a religion:) hehe Jordan Peterson is a special human being, that's for sure. Let us not idolize the man. But I must admit, I like him. But he has his flaws. Especially the flaw that he doesn't know that God is himself hehe, that's the ultimate flaw, that most ppl have, they think they exist as an individual separated from God or separated from "the mechanical universe". Anyway, if we ignore that, he's actually spot on with a lot of things. I actually see him at stage yellow. He's definitely not at stage blue, cmon. He's not orange either nor green. I feel like he's a pretty clear yellow who has still long to go to get to turquoise. But remember, Spiral Dynamics is just a fucking model, and it's not accurate on all areas. JP is a man who is hard to give a colour. But to call him blue is a joke imo. And Leo, in his newest book he's actually talking a good bit about Eastern philosophy, i.e. Hinduism and Taoism, so yeah. And yeah Leo "Someone like JP cannot accept the deeper truth that all morality is a human invention ", actually I think he can. But you know, if something is a human invention, it's also an invention of God, right? Cos human is a dream dreamt by God, so all 'human' moral constructions are also Godly constructions. Look. Life/reality is a game, a dream. But there are arguably better ways to play it than others, just as there are better ways to play the piano, or better ways to play a PC game like World of Warcraft. I feel JP realizes this and teaches this important point to all the green motherfuckers who are way too posmodernisttic and relativistisk and naiv ly believes that all ways are equally "good" ways to live life, while not even realizing that life is a fucking game/dream. My point is that you are in human form. That's the dream you are in now. And inside the game human is biology. We are social beings. It's hard to just become completetly free of attachments to human programming from biological evolution. To do this yoi gotta meditate in a cave for 50 years or take 5-MeO. Most ppl will never do this. So JP is important, because he is really coming from a Darwinian natural evolution-psychology standpoint - so to speak - and telling young guys some basic facts: ITS IMPORTANT TO EARN SOME MONEY. ITS IMPORTANT TO HAVE FRIENDS. ITS IMPORTANT TO WORK ON YOURSELF. ITS IMPORTANT TO STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. ITS IMPORTANT TO TELL THE TRUTH AND NOT LIE. ITS IMPORTANT TO BE OPEN THAT YOU MIGHT BE WRONG. ITS IMPORTANT TO HAVE SOME ROUTINES. ITS IMPORTANT TO EXERCISE AND STAY HEALTHY AND EAT AND SLEEP WELL etc etc etc, all points he's making in his newest book. JP is a good intelligent fellow, a bit too conservative to my taste, he's not alan watts hehe, he's not Leo either, but he's a much needed guy in the world, which is becoming a bit too posmodernistc while not making the full realization, that even existence itself is a hoax, a trick, a game, a joke.

if you feel like everything is pointless, then you have two options 1. go hardcore spiritual, take 5-meo-dmt or any other psychedelic and see for yourself that in fact there is no point, which is the point, and that's so beautiful :> 2. watch Jordan Peterson videos, forget about spirituality and try to lose yourself in the game of life.. i.e. start working on yourself, turn chaos into order as Peterson says, focous on self-development, work out, run, educate yourself, get a good job, get a good house, become a good friend, get good friends, date, get a woman, get children, and that will all feel very meaningful to you, at least when you get your dream wife and children... then maybe later in life it will begin to feel pointless again, and then you can take 5-meo. (3.) combine 1. and 2., i.e. realize life is meaningless, a game, and still play it sincerely, like when a piano player plays the piano.. it's just play, but it's sincere:)

What is the name of that psychedelic? And in which way is it more powerful than 5-MeO-DMT?

Maca , https://examine.com/supplements/maca/

"Explaining", "criticizing", using phrases like 'Ok. What I wanted to show is that your argument, ...' is indeed debating, don't fool yourself :-) Everything we talk about here is just concepts, it's not enlightenment. Some concepts are better pointers than others (depends on the student a lot). So when Leo says he doesn't want to discuss it too much, he's just being clever, in the sense that it's utter pointless to discuss. The same goes for Buddhism and all other spiritual schools. It's not the absolute truth. Nothing that can be spoken is the absolute truth. As Alan Watts say so eloquently: But anyway, it's still fun to discuss I guess So how does nature develop consciousness then?=) What does nature even mean to you? It certainly doesn't seem to mean the same to me. To me human beings are also nature. Everything is fundamentally nature, and your distinction between 'nature' and 'artificial' is rather silly if you really think about it. Saying that something is made out of nothing is IMO not a dualistic concept but rather a non-dualistic idea. Dualism is when you differentiate between two opposite poles and say they don't have anything to do with eachother. For example: black/white, good/bad, something/nothing. We have to be careful we're not just playing word-games here. Appearance and emptiness is indeed the same. And everything is appearances, so fundamentally everything is empty/nothing. You say things don't exist on their own, well, how do they exist then? Dependent of the observer? Well, isn't the observer and the observed the same thing then (you cannot have one without the other)? If that is so, then it's all one, and everything you see is yourself, and yet 'yourself' is nothing, so everything is nothing, everything is appearences, and they are only real if you take them for real. I think you and Leo are pretty much speaking about the same thing, you're just getting lost in words.

To be brutally honest with you guys ... No there is no special 'way' in which reality works. It's all perspectives and mind-layering upon reality. Just take a concept like time. The human brain works obviously by having a deep belief that time is a real thing. Yet science and Einstein tells us that time is a complete illusion. A trick. There is no such thing as time, except for the feeling of time that the human brain lays upon reality. If there is any way in which reality works it can be summed up into a few words: deception and tricks, hide and seek & infinite.

Arrangements of molecules cannot become conscious of course (because everything is fundamentally consciousness). But special arrangements of molecules and energy is indeed what can create an illusion of being a separate self. That which is conscious of this self (and everything else) is indeed that which cannot be understood through language, i.e. consciousness/the tao/awareness etc.

even though materialism is fundamentally wrong, you can still talk about 'stuff' like carbon and oxygen etc if it makes sense to do so. Awareness/Consciousness/Being/Nothingness is everything, but you still need some special arrangement of 'stuff' to create self-aware beings...i.e. illusory selfs.

Well, what you call 'nature' seems to have done that. Just slightly different. Nature took some carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen, cobbled it together, got some cells, cobbled them together, got a body and a brain, programmed it with some DNA - genetics - which is also just biomolecules of C H N O and set it to execute certain things by conducting electricity through ion-flow in neurons, and boom bam, a conscious animal is born.

Exactly. Now, how do we do that? Also note that human minds are also digital, it's also all 1's and 0's, neurons firing or not firing. How does the human mind convince itself it exist? Survival? The sensation of having free will? Emotions? but how.

The distinction you're making between natural and unnatural is arbitrary. If the planet Earth is natural, and bacteria are natural, and monkeys are natural, and humans are natural, then surely, 'stuff' that humans create could also be considered natural, right? Let's say that humans are 'organically created and developed by consciousness'. If that is so, then humans must be governed by consciousness, and thus everything humans make (eg. AI/hardware/software/) must also be organically created andd developed by consciousness.

Who or what has the possibility of reincarnating as something, exactly? Nothing reincarnates as everything which reincarates as nothing. It's happening right now ... and you are that. You are also an artificial intelligence. Artificial in the sense that it's simulated and illusory, which life is, everything is. You are subjectively aware. So of course AI can become subjectively aware. Just a matter of time.

https://www.amazon.com/Book-Taboo-Against-Knowing-Who/dp/0679723005 Seriously a great book. read it.

" Look until you get destroyed by its infinity!" Infinity is so overwhelming - thank god every day that you are just finite human. I understand you. I really do. It's pretty harcore. However, you should realize that infinity is only overwhelming compared to the ego, compared to the illusory separate self that wants to exist. To that ego, 'absolute infinity' is a motherfucker-threat, cos realizing that reality/you is actually infinite - like REALLY FUCKING INFINITE - implies that this ego is: illusory (i.e. non-existant in the first place) and thus doesn't matter. To you, to the ego, this realization feels like death. But by reading your trip rapport one can read through the lines that you - as the ego - actually resisted this killing... the ego didn't die completely... It was about to get its head chopped off when you a voice inside your head started screaming "I CANT TAKE INFINITY, IT'S TOO OVERWHELMING. I JUST WANT TO BE HUMAN.' and thus you resisted tapping into the matter of actual infinity itself (resisted the death of your ego). Thus to me, it seems like you only saw infinity, you didn't become it. But still a big step. Contemplate and take a break from psychedelics, im sure at some point you will be ready to surrender completely.

you already have peace, fulfillment and freedom from it all. it's your seeking that creates the suffering. cos the one who seeks is the self - it's you. stop. just stop. and you will be fine. you've always seeked peace and fullfillment. earlier in life maybe through social interactions and/or materialism. now you seek elsewhere... spiritually, meditation, conceptual ideas about reality/life ... and it's all good and all, but all the meditation and teachings all try to show you that you just have to stop and give up to be fullfilled. It seems counterintuitive, too obvious, too simple. Yet the truth is that when your mind is at rest - no activity, no desires, no restlessness, no seeking - then you'll be fullfilled. Everything you 'get' in this life will be lost again, you will die. If you stop clinging to anything, including goals like "being at peace in the future', then paradoxically that 'stopping' will be what's needed for you to be at peace and okay with everything. stop. but when I think about it, you can't stop before you've realized your true self is nothing (and thus everything, consciousness). as long as you think you are 'something', then fullystopping would be imply death, and that's not so nice. realize what's necessary to realize. then stop.