WaveInTheOcean

Yet that nothing is also something. Wakey wakey. In my selfish eyes: When a guy/girl insist on one polarity of a pair of opposites being "the true one" -- e.g. insisting "but there is NO self!!" -- that girl/guy is stuck in dualistic/egoic patterns of thought. No self - self - no self - self .... an infinite dance. An eternal loop. Divine play; constantly oscillating between the two opposites. The Self is Nothing! The No-Self is The Self! The Selfless Self The formless forms. The gateless gate. ☯️☯️☯️ Yin---yang. Light/darkness. Life/death On/off. 1/0. ☯️☯️☯️ We get born with no self. Then we get a self by virtue of encoded genetics/culture/upbringing/conditioning. Then we can transcend and drop/let go of that self. No self again! Then we can get a new, more expanded self, we built a CONSCiOUS self. A self that is all embracing, all forgiving, all Loving. Seeing itself in everything. A self that knows deeply that hurting another is ?% equal to hurting oneself. Cos oneself IS the other! A self that sees itself in everything, yet knows it is nothing. Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. And between the two my life flows. - Nisargadatta Opposites imply each other! That's like the most basic of all lessons of non-duality, and if we cannot even agree on that, we are infinitely far away from each other....... Reality is fundamentally Non-Dual. Yet, dualities APPEAR cos We imagine them into existence. Why do We do that? Leela. Love. Play. Excitement. ❤️❤️❤️❤️????

Exactly. All this (spiritual work) is ultimately completely and utterly beyond cute concepts and word games; it's about how you FEEL. ??❤️????☀️

Thank you sir ??

Well, while it's true there *in actuality* never was a *separate* self, it's also true that every human being growing up grows a 'sense-of-self' around the age of 3-5. You agree? So, this sense of being s separate self HAS to be dropped in order to realize what the meaningless words 'no self' points to, you see? In other words, "no self" is INDEED "something" that can be realized. It's the dropping of the sense-of-being-a-self-inside-a-head... The question for you is who/what realizes it. My answer now would be the Dao that can't be spoken, or the Selfless Self, ska God. The veil is lifted. Feels like there are a lot of enneagram type Fives on this forum (I'm one myself) and the trap of the Five is to replace direct exp with concepts. Seems like 90% of Fives on this forum has fallen into that trap and is struggling big time to get out (been there myself, not pleasent at all).

God created ego. Don't befriend your ego. Don't love it. Don't hate it. Just become conscious of its patterns. Transcend it. Here's a good vid:

Interesting. Definitely seen that beautiful colorful spinning flower?

Haha, I'm sure it would, but no one would lick those nipples, and the desire to lick them would happen to no one. In other words, nothing would happen;)

Well said my man.

QFT. Well said. Spot on. Beautiful. You are brilliant with words. I fully agree. It's hilarious! So fucking funny.? The shadow is called the shadow for a reason. An actual "physical" shadow follows you all the time, yet often you are unconscious of it. When people project onto others, they are often projecting an aspect of themselves they deny/suppress. Very interesting and hilarious to study this dynamic. The most hilarious thing is that all my projections are probably something I suppress / deny in myself, I'm just not conscious of it. So entertaining ?? For instance, the no-selfers like to point out how we "no-no-selfers" (?) like to create stories and fairytales, not realizing their own belief of 'nothing/noself' is on its own a VERY cute story=D Tell me about no-self/nothingness when shit hits the fan and a bear ? jumps in and breaks your window and run towards you in your bed. Yes, indeed, nothing is ultimately going on, but tell that to me while you yourself jump out of your bed window in panic while screaming, then landing on your left ankle on the ground breaking multiple bones, screaming even more, while suddenly the Scarlett Johansson appears out of nowhere and shows her boobs to you, saying you can lick them, if you want. Tell me about no-self ans nothingness while all this is going on ?

QFT

When you say "apples tastes good, sweet and sour" or think that line -- it is indeed conceptual in the sense that saying that or thinking the line isn't equal to biting an ? with your teeth. You can't eat the menu. You can't replace direct experience with concepts (you can try but ultimately you will fail and feel miserable ?). The map is not the territory. Etc. So "ball" as a word is indeed a concept. Sure, the word points to a direct experience of seeing the ball, feeling it, etc. but without direct exp, the word 'ball' remains inherently conceptual. But okay, I suppose you mean the physical appearance of the characters ' b a l l ' or the sound ' b a l l ' - yeah that is just experience -- sight or sound. But I don't really see your point here. Fundamentally, only awareness/Consciousness/EXPERIENCE exists. Have you ever experienced something that was not 'an experience' or not a part of consciousness? Hehe. You choose to call "that-which-nothing points to" for "nothing" and not spaghettimonster, right... And it's because you find the meaning 'nothing' convey to most other people the most appropriate for that which you are trying to point to. I don't even know what point I'm trying to convey here. I mean, that which "no-self" or "nothingness" points to isn't impossible to grasp. I grasp it multiple times a day during my meditation, run or just looking at trees. I'm so lost in the experience, so happy, so at peace that it doesn't feel like there is a 'self' present. Just raw being, pure experience without mental tension/fear/thoughts/concepts attached to sort of contiminate the experience. And I sort of - simultaneously or slightly after - understand on a deep intuitive level that the trees I'm looking at are nothing. Nothingness. Love. God. Me. Everything. Consciousness. Etc. *That* which can't be communicated because it's so obvious, yet so ineffeable. That's the thing. When I use the words "all my doing", Love or God or Imagination so frequently, it's because I literally feel/experience THAT which these words point to throughout my day. Otherwise i wouldn't use them. If you have noticed I'm only active here during the spring/summer. Haha ??? I feel Love. I see God in everything. Myself. I see it's All Imagination. Play. Nothingness. So beautiful. Unconditional Love isn't ungraspable. I have experienced it directly multiple times in my life now. It's something you become. Or rather, we all already are IT; all layers of belief, ego and fear and falsehood are just removed so we see it more clearly. But okay, I guess you mean ungraspable by the conditioned rational mind. Yes, you're right ? All paths that do not lead you to the Heart aren't it.

Who's looking?

❤️ Sad, I'd be delighted if you would write it again, but I understand if you won't. Happened to me once or twice too. Absurdly annoying ? Yeah, the lesson/insight of no-self and Nothingness are surely important and necessary for many rational-minded people to grasp first, before being able to dive deeper. I've been there. And I still find a lot of value in the concepts of no-self and nothingness. By the way, don't tell me it's not concepts. Words are conceptual by nature. Yes, I know words are just pointers and for sure, I naturally cannot know 100% what no-self/nothingness refers to in your direct experience, and vice versa. Same goes with "God" and so on. Just word-play. Yes, these words are good pointers. We are all different though. I feel God or Love are more direct pointers, but on the flipside, these words are pretty contaminated (by virtue of our culture), indeed. For me, the next step was to realize that nothingness/no-self is equal to God. And further down the road, I had the insight that Love is the answer to any question.❤️

Not might. Will. If you take this work seriously. But I wonder if you do, since you and @VeganAwake really -- to me -- seem to be bashing your head constantly against "this wall" of "no-one" or "no-self", almost borderline close-mindedness :> First mistake is you agree with everything I said. Don't do that. Don't disagree either. Just stay open-minded, man. Go for direct experience. Smoke some DMT perhaps (your own choice of course, it isn't nessecary, there are other ways, but DMT is surely a strong "hack", lol). We both live in Denmark, so just hit me up, and I will facilitate a deep changa session for you -- it would be my pleasure! For free. Yes, it might be a story. But what story do you want to believe in? You see, even saying "there is no one / no self" is a story! Don't you fucking see it? And the strange-loopy thing of all this is that even saying a story is a story is ITSELF a story. Haha. You see how we actually can't get ANYWHERE with words? And no, you're wrong. It doesn't come from a knower that knows anything. To use your jargon it actually comes from no one (and to no one) :-) All your words about "understanding happens so you can feel safe" is true enough (from one perspective, not ultimately true). But notice that while this surely applies to my story-spinning about 'infinite imagination' and so on, it ALSO applies to YOUR story about "no self". ... - If you can't acknowledge that, or if you make your standard, automatic ,robotic reply "it applies to no one, bro", then god fucking damn it; this shadow thing is some real deep shit, haha. Yes, it is true, there is no need to understand. But likewise, there is no need NOT to try to understand it either. You see? Absolute freedom. I can rest 'in letting go' & 'not trying to understand anything' -- and I'm at peace. Likewise, I can rest in 'love' & try to share/understand/conceptualize/make a story out of it all and write it here, for instance. Because... why not? :-) <3 I am still at peace while doing that. Just a different kind of peace;) Notice, not calling it anything, is fine and all, but even THAT is calling it something. You see? Just a different kind of something, namely the silence. silence is often VERY good though; you are obviously a wise fellow. Exactly. You said it yourself. You seem to indeed feel like you have 'arrived' and is 'done'. You don't look anymore. That is perfectly fine. I'm happy for you if that works for you. If you are at deep peace, then indeed, why search. Just enjoy life! <3 But even that, is also a position to take:-) peace & love bro <3

I am actually speaking from direct experience. I'm not just parroting a belief system I have bought into (although I see it could easily seem like that was the case from the outside, since, for instance, Leo also talks about Infinite Imagination) But believe what you want. You should go validate for yourself. Don't believe what I say -- that would be a mistake -- but don't dismiss it either. "There is an apparent human body but that is just words shining light on a particular set of forms" Yes. But likewise, there is an apparent separate self, but that is just words shining light on a particular set of mental patterns. You see? I get what you mean. The separate self (ego) can't be seen or found anywhere -- while the physical body can -- so it's tempting to only dismiss the separate self as illusion/imagination and call the physical body -- a particular set of forms as you say -- a real thing. It's true, the physical outside world with all its different forms is - in a sense - more real than thoughts and in particular the false identity/attachment of/to these thoughts (ego). But ultimately, also the material 'real' forms can be seen to be: imagination. Your imagination. In other words, the outside world can be realized to actually be 'your doing', i.e. it's a reflection of YOU. Your imagination. A more low-level pattern/structure of thoughts, if you will. The outside is seen to be the inside -- and the inside the outside. It's so fucking beautiful. Actually, if you go deep enough in your contemplation, you will see that --- just like the mental illusory separate self cannot be found anywhere, cos it does not exist --- any 'physical apparent separate object', eg. an ant, ultimately is ALSO an illusory construct and *actually* cannot be 'found' ! Take the ? walking around on the ground in the rainforest along millions of other ants in an ecosystem filled with plants, mushrooms, dirt, rain, animals, bacteria, viruses, trees etc. Can you describe the ant without taking into account its environment/surroundings? You could try but then what 'you get' wouldn't actually be the 'essence of the ant'. The essence of the ant cannot be isolated. It is just as much part of the rainforest as your right little finger is part of your body. And the Amazon rain forest is just as much part of Earth as your feet is part of your body. And the Earth is just as much part of the universe as your stomach is part of your body. And YOU, your body, is just as much part of the whole universe, as a wave is part of an ocean. Or even more correct is to say that the ? IS the WHOLE ocean. That wave is something THE whole ocean 'is doing' -- just like 'the real you' is something the whole universe is doing! Forget free will vs. no-free-will, this is just ONE Eternal Infinite Unfolding/Happening. ? Non-duality - all distinctions & opposites collapse into ONE. So, thus, yes, when I say 'everything' is imagination, yes, you are right, from a logical PoV this is an absolute meaningless statement. It's like saying everything is Love/God/Consciousness/Nothingness etc. Meaningless - from a rational PoV. Yet, Absolute Truth cannot be comprehended by the logical mind. It simply cannot. Absolutely speaking, everything is ONE. Everything is Consciousness/Love/God/Imagination/Nothingness. All opposites are seen to 'arise together' ... i.e.: they are 'of the same substance'. If you, instead, isolate and zoom into the ant (reductionism) to 'see its true nature' you start seeing millions of cells, billions of complex biomolecules arranged in intelligent ways, quadrillions of neatly arranged protons, neutrons, electrons, quarks, ... hell, what do we got, strings? Ultimately just: pure energy/potential/nothingness! And EVERY form (physical object) is built of THAT. It's ALL seen to be Whole & One. No parts! If you zoom out indefinitely, you get ♾️ If you zoom in indefinitely, you get ♾️ You are obviously already very conscious (like VeganAwake). You have gone deep, but the mistake you intense 'no-selfers' are making is that you think you have gone as deep as deep gets. That 'no-self' is the ultimate insight. That the rabbit hole ends here and that all the jumbo-mumbo-talk about 'God, Self, Love, Infinity, Imagination' is just pure delusion/fantasy-stories that their ego is spinning (( funny how you say the ego doesn't exist in the first place, but can still 'create' fantasy-stories, huh? )). But you still have much deeper to go (so do I). The rabbit hole of self-realization/Consciousness is infinite -- of course! How could it be otherwise? To believe it's finite is actually rather silly. But you guys seem to be so fucking stuck in the belief that 'no-self' is the ultimate realization. Let me tell you: it is not. It's just one important aspect/nuance of the path. Go deeper. Don't stop here. Communication has its limits. Direct experience is needed. But let me highlight: Forms are formless in nature. Formlessness IS form. All forms are imagined. It's all whole. Oneness is what is! Always. Yes, there can be 'apparent' dualities, fragmentation, separation, distinctions, opposites, parts. But that is just what YOU -- whatever this < You / I > is (it's not the separate illusory self) -- are imagining "into existence" ! Exciting, huh? So Good, so fucking amazing. The mother of all mindfucks: IT IS ALL YOU, silly! ? YOUR doing! Haha???❤️☯️??????????♾️

The ego (separate self) is an illusion. The actual Self is all there is.

There is no human body either. That's all I'm saying. It's imagination. Yes, there is a body, if I imagine one. Yes there is a separate self, if I imagine one. If I don't, there is not. Infinite Imagination. Who's imaginaing it all? No one! Aka YOU! Haha. I like to call "it" God, but words don't makes any sense here, call it what you want. It doesn't exist, yet is existence itself. Hehe. But yes, the physical human body (and the outside world in general) is on a lower level of imagination than the more conceptual separate self (ego), which is a more complex, higher level of imagination (animals don't have it as we humans do). But it is ultimately ALL just imagination bro. A play. A game. Call it whavever you want, it's just pure Love. Nothing to be afraid of. My body could shoot itself in the head with a gun and nothing would ultimately happen, just as nothing ultimately happens when a character in a PC Game dies.

What you believe determines -- to a large extent -- how you interpret reality. Mood and so on. Btw: Which 'you' are you referring to, cos there is no one here=D Yes, just like if I jump out from a tall building in GTA (video game) the character dies. Luckily, I who am playing the game, can't die. The body dies sure. But I am not my body. I'm not the separate self I tend to believe I am (to be able to function as a human) . Notice if I didn't ever buy into the belief that I'm a human person, then I would just be equal to a stone more or less. Nothing to do.

In other words: Yes, the separate personal self that focuses on 'me' and survival: yes, that self is an illusion. It doesn't exist. There is no little man/woman sitting behind the eyes. But then when you get totally past that, i.e. transcend it, see through the illusion, a new self can be revealed: The Selfless Self. God. This Self is What You really Are. And it's formless, yet it is all form. It's the Dao that can't be spoken. It's the all-embracing, all-encompassing Self. The Self that simultaneously is in everything, yet all detached from it all. It's like realizing you're the Whole Universe observing itself. Yet it's also pure Nothingness. Can we say what this Self wants? What its true nature is? You tell me! No, really, it's the Dao that cannot be spoken. But I'm gonna do it anyway: I am IT. I am You. All I want is Love. I am God. I am Love. ?❤️??

What you call 'a body here' or 'a ? there' is just you (as God, The Eternal Formless Dreamer) imagining the "formless into form". ? If you insist on there existing 'things' like trees, bodies, stones, then you are -- purely logically -- also insisting on there existing "an observer" / "subject" that is viewing, seeing, perceiving all these 'objects'. God - wake up for God's sake! ? You cant have objects without a subject. You cant have a subject without objects. You are still stuck in dualistic thinking, going full-blown "no-self"-bananas... desperately, constantly trying to prove that the self doesn't exist, not seeing that if you 'flush out the self', you also "flush out everything else' (the outside world). Recognizing the non-dual nature of THIS -- EXiSTENCE, REALiTY -- is seeing ONENESS in EVERYTHING. It is seeing 'the going-together' of ALL opposites! ?☯️❤️

Oh you do? I thought you didn't care. But it doesn't help much. Yes the mammals you eat have lived happier life, sure, that's Great. But the issue is that organic farming/free range beef introduces other challenges, like space for instance. If all the billions of cows and pigs were to be organically free ranged farmed, we humans would have to go live on the moon cos all habitable land on ? would be used for these BILLIONS of mammals. Last time I checked the consensus within scientific biology, humans are also animals, mammals that spring from apes. We all have the same common ancestor. Yes, humans are special in our ability to think backwards and forwards in time, and thus we can suffer more. I have no qualms smashing a mosquito, but I have big time qualms about separating a new born calf from her momcow or castrating a new born male pig without anaesthesia. Human beings who don't have qualms about these forms of mammalian torture..., Well, I would hesitate to even call them human.

Do you have kids redline? If you do, i'd like to enslave them (steal them while you're sleeping) and let them reproduce in the small cage i've built for them, slaughtering them when they're around 15 years old and eating their delicious thighs, hearts and liver (on my bread, good source of iron!) As you say, death is natural, we all die. So you don't mind I suppose.

Instant ban. Can't have all this ignorance on the forum, mods please? You probably also voted Trump. What the fuck are you even doing here lol? ??

I'm from Denmark brother. I dont watch your braindeath biased horseshit TV channels, luckily. Also if you're postulating that meat, especially beef meat, is not an issue in regards to global warming, or that global warming is a hoax, you would be banned from this forum, if I was a mod.

Exactly. There are no trees. No outside world. No inside self. Nothing at all. Just 'experience experiencing experience'. No stuff. There is absolutely nothing but Love/God/Oneness/Experience/Consciousness/Nothingness. As Alan Watts said: there are no nouns in the world. Only verbs. Existence is a an eternal Infinite 'happening' unfolding out of itself by itself over itself. There is not even an organism bro. No 'body' that is 'mine', no organism where an illusory self could hide. It's just pure imagination all of it. Divine play. Leela? It's All just Love. Oh God! ????☯️