LastThursday

It definitely hurts the ego to know that you're less smart than you thought you were. But it's ok. From a less ego-centred perspective all that's happening is that you lost in a contest of comparison. But smartness is not one dimensional, it's actually nonsensical to compare smartness between people; it's always apples and oranges. It may feel wrong, but even people who are smart in the same areas (say playing Chess), have different methods and intuitions, it's never a like-for-like comparison. The other thing is that there's not a ceiling on smartness. In a sense you're always showing yourself how dumb you were, by ever increasing your smartness. So even if you're only competing with yourself, you'll always be losing (and winning). This is the natural order of things. And, the ego being humbled is no bad thing. It gives you the space to appreciate how smart and wonderful other people are too.

I couldn't possibly comment

@Preety_India ??? that cracked me up

Prrrrr prrrrr prrrrr

Ok some assorted craziness as is my want. I'm going to model myself after some forum members. So look at me. I'm so effing amazing, you shmucks don't deserve to even comprehend what I'm comprehending, I'm so far above your level that I everything that comes out of my mouth is pure God wisdom. But's it's ok I'm so meta and gansta, that I can still love you, but my love is harsh like the light of Sun, both nurturing and deathly. I was just born at the wrong time, the world isn't ready for me and what I'm capable of, can't you see how much like a God I am. I don't need to do pickup, I don't need to psychadelic myself, I don't need ridiculously worded mystical advice, I am a real MASCULINE man (take a breath) and all sexes just can't help themselves around me, I'm just oozing charisma. I've got so many projects and ideas on the go that I'm going to be a millionaire next week and take the whole planet to the next level. I only grace this forum because I'm elevating the human race. (Gosh that was cringey) Next: Just been watching Missions (french Martian drama) and the immediately watched Gravity afterwards (what is it about Sandra Bullock that does something for me? Huh). It all ended up giving me that odd feeling of detachment from myself. I think it comes from experiencing something - albeit fiction - not in my normal sphere. We're constantly connected by an umbilical to our circumstance: that job, that house, that spouse, that bed, that food. We rarely get that chance to detach. I went through a 10 mile walk through North London just to do precisely that, detach. I was floating in space. But now I've landed again on my laptop. And more next: I have occasional moments of clarity whereby I see myself from the outside. Imagine talking to your friend John or Jane, yes just like that. It's as if I momentarily see myself as someone else, it's the most peculiar sensation. I know that that sensation is real, that the character of Guillermo is just a facade. I suspect at some point that detachment from the character will become permanent. One day it will just go pop and I won't be able to return. Oh and: This is not a story, it's a stupendous happening and here I am to witness it.

@Leo Nordin living the dream. Hopefully, you've got internet. It's definitely not for everyone. What I've noticed is that a lot of of these tiny houses are in the countryside and have a large amount of land right outside. I think this helps with not feeling too confined. If you're very much an indoor person, then having more room to do stuff in is going to be important - especially dancing. But there's a large variety of sizes of tiny house. I would like to think it would work for me, because given the right lifestyle and weather I would probably spend all my time outdoors. Or in an urban setting in various bars or coffee shops. You should write up your experience somewhere, it would be useful for others thinking of doing the same.

Because those perspectives can experience things that you don't and tell you about them? Oh, hang on a minute... who's doing the proving?

Yeah. Don't. Move on.

Immense work. Should be pinned somewhere no?

@Preety_India in a word: love. Healthy motivation comes from love. But pushing against that love, all action has a cost. It takes time and energy, focus and commitment and sometimes courage to act. To do anything, that love has to be stronger than the cost of acting. It's like a see-saw. You can either reduce the cost involved or increase the love (motivation). It's possible to have fear-based motivation and this can be effective. For example wear a mask or you might spread Covid. But it's a less healthy way to motivate yourself. There are many ways to reduce the cost of acting: planning, breaking big tasks down into smaller tasks, creating habits, getting others to do things for you, involving others in your plans, building up routine, reducing distractions, setting clear goals, having vision, deadlines. The list is endless. So. What do you really love?

Go meta. In what ways do you want to be more attractive? Who do you want to be more attractive for? Why do you think being attractive is important to you? You can set up habits and principles, but you should understand why you're doing them too, so you can focus on the right things.

We're all stuck in double binds. A concrete example is that my landlady increases my rent once a year without fail. I don't like this - who likes paying more money for nothing in return? In this case the double bind is that I cannot move without reducing my standard of living. This is because all the other rental properties in the area have similarly increased in price over time. And yet, my rent increasing is actually reducing my standard of living because I have less disposable income each month. In this particular example, I have many options: I could move into somewhere cheaper and smaller; move to a cheaper area; buy a property; move into shared accommodation. All have their cons. All involve some sort of increased suffering. The result is I stay put as it's currently the lesser of all evils. I could list out lots of other double binds I find myself in, briefly: wage slavery, familial ties, wanting sex and intimacy and freedom at the same time, being part of UK society, reliance on having money, and the biggest of them all survival. All double binds lock you in to a certain way of being and as a consequence restrict personal freedoms. It may seem possible to break a double bind by just walking away or not caring. For example you are in a relationship with an abusive partner. "Just walk away!" you might be told, but you're not financially self sufficient or have no other support: you have no ways or means to pay for rent (for example). It's either get abused or live on the streets. Similarly, it's an ongoing trope that the poor just need to work harder and not be so lazy. And yet the poor are in the double bind of survival, it's either poverty or death. The dating section of the forum here (oh what fun it is) is all about double binds. Young males are in a double bind: they have a strong desire for sex driven by biology and hormones, and yet it seems that desire isn't getting fulfilled. They are told to do this and not do that, and yet doing anything different means going against their very nature. They are also in the double bind of immaturity, to get their desires met they are effectively told to act and think more maturely, but in order to gain enough maturity they have to wait and suffer the uncertain process of maturation. All double binds cause a certain amount of discomfort and suffering. Some people never escape their double binds. Acceptance can be one way out of the suffering. Over time you learn to exist within the confines of most of your double binds and you just accept your lot. If life is a game then it is one with rules and double binds and you're simply not able just to do and be what you want. Society itself is a double bind, either you play by it's rules or it makes life extremely difficult for you. You could move to another country with a different set of rules, but it's no different. Even if you lived anonymously in a jungle away from society and living by your own rules, then you hit that bedrock of double binds: survival. You can choose not to eat or drink or sleep, but you won't live long if you do that. And yet, out of double binds can come a lot of creative energy. When forced to operate within the confines of a double bind, there is still generally a lot of leeway in what can be achieved. For example escaping wage slavery requires a lot of work and cunning: you effectively learn to live day to day by your wits and this sharpens all aspects of your being. It is stressful for sure (hence the double bind, wage slavery is less stressful), but humans are meant to live creatively and by their wits. In other words a double bind is sometimes a phantom of our own creation. Wage slavery is only slavery in our minds not in reality. And yet, you can't simply tell a person "don't be a wage slave!". To escape a double bind sometimes it is necessary to get a taster of something new to convince yourself that there was no double bind in reality. Perhaps working for yourself is actually the lesser of the evils. It then pays to be experimental around double binds. Test the waters and see if a double bind is actually real or just borne out of habit or ignorance of other options. But it has to be done in a way that causes least suffering and is authentic to your needs.

Good. At least one woman knows what she wants right? Maybe there's more like her?

Most women know exactly what they want. Most men just don't want to listen or don't know how to listen. This is exactly how women get supressed in society. What @Preety_India is really asking is: how do I know if I'm being duped? The answer is you don't. You only have behaviour to go by, you have to be sharp and attentive to notice and it may take a while to "work him out". Even the man himself maybe confused between love and lust and not know the difference. Men also don't know what they want.

I wasn't aware this was a stage in a man's life, but I suppose that was a figure of speech? The question is, is pickup necessary for a man to get sex, love, confidence or shape his character? The answer is of course no. Can pickup provide all those things in one package? Potentially, yes. Is pickup and the way it's talked about on this forum objectifying women? Yes.

If you're still out of the country, then wait until you are face to face with him before deciding anything. At least tell him that what he did for you was special and that you have fallen for him. I don't think you outright have to decide to move in straight away, you can just spend a lot of time at his place. With one of my girlfriends I spent so much time at her place, that it didn't seem strange for me to move in after about six months. Take some time to work out if he's comfortable with the idea.

I suppose it's a matter of definition I guess what this whole thread is about is active pickup and particularly cold approach in the street or club. The whole motivation is to "pickup" women for sex like you are going hunting for rabbits. I'm advocating not doing that, but as you say living life in whatever situation you find yourself in. But also not having that "hunting" mentality to it. Simply genuinely enjoy yourself and let that signal attraction when the situation arises. I'd say 99% of attraction is unconsciously motivated, just being open, agreeable and enjoying yourself makes you instantly more attractive/interesting to everyone.

It reminds me of the slogan here in the UK: Drink Responsibly. An oxymoron if ever I heard one.

It's a good point. The lessons and experiences taken from pickup can be a form of development. In that sense pickup is not "bad" and perhaps for some men it gives them strong motivation to develop themselves (the prospect of sex being the motivator). But it is not the only form of development or even a particularly easy form. Understanding sexual dynamics from a less emotionally attached and more balanced viewpoint is also needed, which I think is what @Emerald is pointing towards.

I can only give you my point of view, I'm not a coach in these things (perhaps I should be, I need a LP!). It works for any situation. The intention behind any social situation should be: "I'm here to enjoy myself". So whether you're sat in a bar or restaurant by yourself, or with male friends, or a mixed group, the intention should always be the same. I'm largely an introvert myself, being with people for long periods wears me down, and I'm not the first to pipe up in groups. But I like people. If you're afraid of people or have social anxiety, then that needs working on first before even considering getting into the attraction game. The second intention is to share that enjoyment with others. This is what I mean by "advertising", you're communicating that you want to connect by saying "look at me I'm enjoying myself, do you want to share in that?". There should be no other agenda, no "hey ladies I'm looking for a fuck". There's a big difference in how you behave and carry yourself between the two intents. Thirdly you need to be able to talk to strangers. There's no other way around it. If you can't talk to people then again that needs to be worked on first. You don't need to be extrovert to appear "open" and "approachable". Smiling, eye contact, relaxed open posture, and wanting to initiate conversation is all you need. If you're advertising yourself this way, then any conversation will be fluid and not awkward. If you find that you're having a longer conversation and there is flirting and attraction, then you test the water by escalating the sexual tension. That process of escalation definitely takes courage and experience, and it's not something that comes easily to me I admit. But "advertising" yourself certainly helps you get to that point more smoothly. Whether you initiate conversation or they do or it's one person or a group isn't relevant. I'd say from personal experience talking to groups is easier even if you're by yourself: the chances that someone finds you interesting is much higher, and once that happens the rest of the group follows. The main take away is that I'm not trying to play a game, I am genuinely enjoying myself in any social situation and showing my enjoyment to others. If I'm not in the mood for socialising, then I don't go.

There is a mixture of fear, bad self image and lack of experience for a lot of men. I understand that trying pickup is a kind of therapy by exposure if you like. It's like jumping into an ice-cold swimming pool, it's unpleasant but you get used to it after a while. I totally get it. For some it may be the only way to meet women. But bad self image has nothing to do with pickup and requires proper talking therapy or prolonged self development work to improve. Having a string of one night stands may improve your self image, it may not. Given the brutal success rate of pickup, for most it will probably worsen self image. What shy guys need is socialisation. They need to be exposed to talking to people of both sexes more often. But the drive to do this needs to come from the shy guy. Basic self development. That means having a purpose in life, being well socialised, eating well, having a basic level of fitness, i.e. all the stuff on Maslow's triangle. And, everything that Leo talks about. By realising that you're a red blooded male and that women find that naturally attractive. It's walking in to a place, sitting down and saying "look here I am this is what i've got to offer" (metaphorically). Rather than being a hard-nosed salesman (pickup), you're an advertising hoarding (ridiculous analogy but there you go). How you advertise yourself comes with practice, and in a way it doesn't matter, some women will like it, most won't. But nearly all women will acknowledge your ability to do it.

Fair enough. But what does win mean here anyway? There's other ways to create confidence than just doing pickup no? Probably better ways IMO. Isn't it more natural and easy just to openly flirt and "advertise" yourself and letting that do the work? The quantity and tenacious mindset of pickup just doesn't click with me, way too artificial and potentially demeaning for both the woman and the man. Or am I missing something valuable here?

It doesn't matter. God's perfection is absolute. Or in less fancy language everything that happens to you is good even if it's bad. Or in even simpler language: your girlfriend will help you to mastery even if it doesn't look that way.

Fear, shame and guilt is still experience no? Experience is something that you notice or are aware of. Experience includes everything without exception. God includes everything without exception.

Consciousness, State and Description (The following is more of a set of notes more than anything else) So you're conscious. If we drink alcohol for example we can agree we perceive the world differently from normal. The difference is not so great, but it's noticeable. You can label the altered state of consciousness as "drunk", and you would describe yourself this way to someone else. The description of the altered state can be as fined grained as you like: loss of inhibition, loss of balance, worse impulse control and so on. No description is all encompassing however. There are nuances that just cannot be put into words, maybe you just feel different but cannot describe that feeling. The state of consciousness you find yourself in is whatever you are aware of in the moment. There is a sense in which the state has infinite depth, no amount of words will fully describe the state. Consciousness can enter into any state it wants to, it's unrestricted. Consciousness is "always on", and so is always in one state or another. If you like consciousness is constantly moving between states. The movement between states is seamless and instant. It may be (almost certainly) that there are states in which awareness is greatly expanded, and you have access to things which you don't have in other states. Despite consciousness being the engine behind reality (i.e. consciousness generates consciousness), it is modulated by its own content. In other words the stuff in consciousness in turns affects the state of consciousness. So you take a drug such as ethanol (a phenomenon within consciousness) and it affects consciousness itself. When the drug wears off (again a phenomenon within consciousness), the state of consciousness reverts. This is expected, consciousness affects itself, that is its very nature. How is something created from nothing? By a self-influencing entity arising from nothing. It has to be self influencing because it is not allowed to have a prior cause. This means that consciousness can spontaneously shift into a different state. In fact this also defines consciousness, since it's a self sustaining feedback loop, the loop is constantly feeding back. Consciousness keeps updating itself, it is a state of constant flux. Essentially, every new phenomenon in consciousness is a new state of consciousness. There isn't a "baseline" state for consciousness, really there aren't states at all, because state requires something to endure long enough to be identified. State is related to the word static or unchanging. But consciousness never sits still. So what's going on here. If consciousness doesn't have "states" then what is it? Consciousness is defined as itself, whatever it is in any particular moment. Because there's nothing static about consciousness it isn't possible to compare different states, because there aren't any. It isn't possible to verbalise a state, because there aren't any. No sooner have you described a "state" than it has become something else. There isn't a limit to how much consciousness is on display, in fact it isn't unfeasible to be infinitely aware. Consciousness itself is unbounded. This is why there appears to be an infinite amount of universe and stuff out there. Consciousness can become finitely aware if it chooses to be, and to wonder where all this stuff came from.