RendHeaven

"It just is what is apparently happening and nobody is here."

@Heart of Space bro what are you even fighting lol

Careful, your ego's showing

@Surfingthewave Gosh don't even get me started on this. I went on a bit of a rant there about how "women don't understand us men" (definitely stems from my own bias as a male and a sense of "I'm not being understood!") ...but even I must admit that the flip side (men not listening to or understanding women) is far worse. I've even considered starting a YouTube channel solely dedicated to helping men open up to the female perspective/dropping their male bias. We'll see if that ever happens lol. Yes, we are. It'll never go away. Each passionate discussion that you see about sex with women translates to: "I'm not being understood! Please understand me!" But to you, it looks like disgusting manipulation and shallowness. And so you (rightfully, from your perspective) point that out. Which, in turn, is YOU saying: "I'm not being understood! Please understand me!" Men will then see you not understanding them, and they will proceed to not understand you either lol. It seems to me that someone has to put their foot down first, take the initiative, and let go of their need to feel understood. If this can be accomplished, maybe true connection will occur. But to take the initiative feels like death: "Why do I have to be the one to surrender to them? They don't even understand me!" It really takes the heart of a champion to be the one to surrender. For you (a woman) to truly and deeply understand a man, you must: Let go of all of your personal history with men + the pride that comes with your female identity. Listen. Do not contradict or judge them, no matter how much it hurts or how "wrong" what they are saying seems. Let go of the desire to change them. Careful: if your reaction is, "I see what you're saying, HOWEVER, [...]" < this is not true understanding. Of course, the exact same points apply to men attempting to understanding women, or any identity trying to understand another identity. This means that if you are used to men sexualizing you for your body + you've suffered for it, you'll have to step outside of that identity entirely and reimagine yourself as the lonely man who doesn't know any better while you actively listen to his story (Don't expect him to be open and honest either. His words may appear repulsive and fake) And the mistake here would be to pity him and think "poor thing he should've known better" because even that is not true understanding. You have to see exactly how in his situation with his history and culture and trauma and sex drive; you, yes YOU yourself would've sexualized/objectified the bodies of women; and you, yes YOU yourself would've said repulsive and fake words. No, I'm not justifying or dismissing how problematic objectification is. I'm just doing my best to illustrate exactly how and why TRUE UNDERSTANDING IS SELF-THREATENING, DANGEROUS, AND AGAINST YOUR SURVIVAL AGENDA. You've spent your entire life believing, "this [ _ ] is not me," but true understanding forces you to see that, "this [ _ ] is me." The moment you step into the worldview of this man, every previous identity attachment you have screams out in defense, saying "this new worldview is wrong and disgusting and clearly not wholistic and it's so limited and why haven't people outgrown this??" and yet such defensiveness itself is the real limitation preventing true understanding. I'm sure you notice this exact dynamic of unwillingness to surrender, but coming from the men you interact with. One day I'll write out a blazing list much like the one above with multiple examples (preferably in video format) but for men attempting to understand women. I already know it'll be like x10 as long lol.

Obviously. But at the same time there is a basic flavor here that we've heard time and time again in millions of pop songs. A good 80% of it is in 4/4 time as far as I can tell. There was one middle section where they played around with it a bit, but to say "constantly changing" is a stretch. I'll admit I haven't looked into this. I could barely make out what the words were over the blaring organ + drumset. Maybe the lyrics are good

Wow, what a beautiful share. It's saddening to me but also understandable how women are reacting in this thread. They simply don't understand what it's like as a man to be rejected/invisible to women your whole life. To not be sexually desired. At the core of it, men just want connection too, and this (approaching, improving) is the most tried and true method. It works. You go from rejected/invisible to finally having female attention. This is not disputable. And to us, it really does feel like a "conquering" (of ourselves, of the world, and yes; of women). Hence, we men talk about it from our male perspective to help each other out. But the woman's mind can't help but twist our words into some evildoing, as though we are necessarily manipulative or not compassionate enough. I've yet to find a single woman (neither IRL nor on this forum) who bothers to learn about the struggles of men with an open heart/mind, and says, "Alright, this looks manipulative and weird from my perspective, but maybe this is a necessary part of a man's journey. Maybe I shouldn't project my own biases onto his journey. Let me listen with no judgement and support him even if I feel threatened." Even the most conscious and understanding of women (SD tier 2 women) can't seem to leap this hurdle. Many women even pretend to understand (intellectually) the importance of approaching and seduction, but they don't personally feel all of the emotions that are at stake for the man, so these women really don't understand. They judge and demonize the man's journey from the luxury and comfort of their own desires, needs, and problems. But this is not an attack on the character of women per se. I believe this dynamic is just the tragic result of us men as a whole being shitty for far too long. How can we expect women to let their guard down and understand us when all we do is hurt them? It's not like we really understand or listen to them either. Both genders are playing this game of, "They hurt me first so why should I let down my defenses and be the first to extend my hand? I'm sitting comfortable in my fortress until THEY reach out first." Self-survival runs far deeper than we give it credit for. And Leo's right; True Understanding goes against self-survival.

@Byun Sean Leo banned the OP already lmao

at least you're self-aware

Lol the exact same 3-4 chords on loop for the WHOLE song. Not very musically inspired imo, but I can see why the mainstream would like this.

@SamC ???

Sam C always with the excellent questions I'm glad to be able to understand all of this personality-category stuff thanks to you lol

wow I haven't seen this much insecurity in so long lmao

Yep... that's telling lol

I disagree. Being social (with a deliberate practice mindset) will eradicate social anxiety.

lmfao

+Oat milk and/or Pea protein drink

breakfast smoothie~ -Frozen fruit -plant based milk -Banana -optional, vegan protein powder

Approach more people lmao. No way around that.

@SamC One of them has a c*ck

Read Musicophilia by Oliver Sacks!

Hehe I recently just found her too. Her whole channel is excellent. I don't think I've ever subbed to someone so fast

said who? @seeking_brilliance is correct, erase your chart and you'll be on the right track.

This is excellent.

Sorry Emerald, I love your perspectives but this ain't right. You have no idea the transformative process that one man goes through to go from unattractive to attractive. It's a deeply personal journey of going from literally repelling girls to finally experiencing their affection, and the principles along this journey are timeless. Your "receiving pickup" perspective is such a partial, me-centered perspective. Not even 0.1% of the man's journey is seen from your vantage point. You are like a pebble in the stream who thinks it knows the water since it is always touching water, but doesn't realize that the water has travelled dozens of miles just to briefly touch you, and will continue to travel another dozen miles. Of course, the man's perspective is also a partial, me-centered one as well. The water of the stream has no idea what it's like to be that pebble. There's no denying that. The problem with your claim above is that you believe that you have the wider, truer, more meta perspective that encompasses the "narrow" male one, but really you're just looking down your nose and dismissing the male perspective instead of taking it seriously. You say you're listening but deep down you think you know better because you see the partiality of the male perspective (but not the partiality of your own). I know, ironic that a man would tell a woman that she's not really listening, seeing how men never listen to women - there's plenty of that all over this forum + thread, I'm hyper-aware.

I would replace "dating advice" with "attraction advice." In general, listen to women. It's noble. Just filter out their attraction advice. Dating advice imo is broad. It includes stuff like boyfriend-girlfriend dynamics. LISTEN TO THEM ON THIS. Their relationship advice is valid. It's specifically attraction advice where they are clueless. Attraction is different from boyfriend-girlfriend dynamics. Very critical distinction.